EP.005: Jamie Ramsay

JAMIE RAMSAY (Endurance Adventure Athlete)

Jamie is an Endurance Adventure Athlete, presenter, public speaker and brand ambassador. He has completed over 32,000km of human-powered adventuring in 29 countries and 20 different adventures. He is a runner, cyclist, trekker and mountaineer. After 12 years working for an international communications agency, he wasn’t happy with the direction of his life and realised if he didn’t make some drastic changes then things would continue to spiral downwards. His solution was to quit his job (where he was a newly promoted Partner), fly to Vancouver and run 17,000km to Buenos Aires. Following the success of this adventure, Jamie decided to dedicate his life to pushing his perceived boundaries. Each adventure he undertakes is designed to challenge him in new ways.

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Transcript of our Conversation

Conversation with Jamie Ramsay

[00:00:00] Work slept on the floor in the bathroom and literally woke up in the next morning, pull myself up on the sink. Looked myself in the mirror and thought this is not healthy. It’s not the direction your life should be going. And I went back to my desk looked around. I don’t want to be these people. I don’t want to be the guy.

He doesn’t see his wife and kids, I don’t want to be the person who never ends up with someone. I don’t want my life to be just stuck in this office for another 30 years.

Hi, thanks for having me on your podcast today. No worries. Absolutely pleasure to have you on and really good, you know, over these years or following your adventures to get down and have a chat about the stuff. Very much being one of the few that follows well, [00:01:00] as I say, you’ve done it, incredible stuff over the years, and it’s just unbelievable, you know, from your 17,000 kilometer.

Run to cycling and all these adventures. I mean, how do you fit them in

I’ve recently been looking back all the numbers and it does kind of feel a bit mind-boggling the last six years I’ve done 32,000 kilometers of adventuring, all human powered, and that doesn’t include the mountains and stuff. But just, it’s fun what we do being adventurous people. See, I kind of don’t. I try not to fix on the numbers too much, but so how, how did it start?

How did you get into doing what you do now? Jumping straight in here? Um, so I’ll try and keep it as concise as possible, but I was, I’m basically like most, most other people, you know, you, you go. Go to school, go to university, get a job [00:02:00] in London or wherever it is, and that’s becomes your life. And, um, I went very much, went down that path and, uh, it kind of, the story goes splits a little bit.

So in my kind of non-work life as a lot of people who do running and adventure and stuff, Did the 5k run and the 10 K run and then the half marathon, and then the marathon, then the half Ironman, the 10 K swim, always looking for that. Next thing was going to give you that fix that you were looking for.

And so that was going along in my private life. And then in my work life, I was just doing this job, which is a great tool for anyone who wants to do financial communications in the city. Um, but that really wasn’t for with me. And I was just doing, going through the motions and. No, I was a graduate trainee then became an account whatever.

And then in 2013 became a partner. And, uh, I was doing all these adventures on the side, [00:03:00] but at work, I was kind of getting to that point where I was very dissatisfied with what I was doing. I wasn’t getting much. Um, I wasn’t getting any sense of fulfillment from it. And I noticed that. I was throwing myself at these endurance things.

And then when I wasn’t doing that, I was basically going to the pub and. Drinking too much. And those were kind of becoming too, too much of a, kind of a crutch to have a balanced side of my life. Then I realized that sometimes I was getting at lunch, drinking and working out late at night and I was just like, this is all just not, not very happy.

And then there was one day I went, I was some friends and they. They went to, um, it was 4:00 AM and I was mostly going back to Fulham, but my office was in the city and I decided to go into the office in the city is better than going home because I was going to save time. So I [00:04:00] went to work, slept on the floor in the bathroom and literally woke up in the next morning, pull myself up onto the sink.

Looked at myself in the mirror and thought this is not healthy. It’s not the direction your life should be going. And the kind of went into my desk, looked around. I don’t want to be these people. I don’t want to be the guy. He doesn’t see his wife and kids. I don’t want to be the person who never ends up with someone.

I don’t want my life to be just stuck in this office for another 30 years. Um, and I thought back to the last time I felt some sort of. Uh, fulfillment and, um, my personal success in my life. And now it’s this run I’d done in Vietnam in 2013, where I was a jungle marathon, and it was meant to be 140 kilometers over six days, backpack on like marathon de sable.

And it had been canceled, but rather than that, that canceling, stop the adventure. I decided I’d just fly out to Vietnam anyway, put the backpack on and just do what I said to everyone. I would do, you know, this ran [00:05:00] 240 kilometers down side roads in Vietnam. And, uh, I can remember, I was just feeling very content and happy at the end of that.

And I, when I was slightly noticing this spiral at work, I thought back to that, and that’s what I need in my life. And that’s when I made the decision to quit, it drove the nine to five, the good salary, the London life, um, and, and go in probably a bounds far in the other direction that is like, um, which I quit my job in April.

I had four months notice finished on the 28th of January. And on the 14th of August, I was standing in Vancouver with a baby stroller. Looking south, pretty long way to run. He’s kind of very interesting. You say that because you had to sort of build up from 10 K’s a half marathon, which was exactly the same as me.

I went sort of a half marathon [00:06:00] ultra and then a year later I was doing 32 marathons in 27 days. I sorry, 27 marathons and 32 days. It’s sort of that buildup to try and sort of say, Oh, you, how far can you push yourself? Yeah, I think also it’s a little bit like an addiction. Like it’s a hit, you get a hit and doing the same things, not going to give you, unless you’re absolutely focused on the number of how quickly you go.

You’re not going to get back, hit that sense of achievement. And so, yeah, I’ve, I want a very slippery slope. You were out in Vancouver, in Canada facing south. How w how did this sort of planning for that trip come about and. So I’ve been, I’ve obviously been thinking in my head, right. I need to quit. I don’t, if I carry on in the life, I’m in, I’m going to end up in a place I don’t really want to be.

So I thought I need to put passion at the forefront of what I do. And I was like, right. So I want it to be running, [00:07:00] travel adventure. Um, and I can’t just quit my career to go and do a marathon. This is going to have to be like a year long. Endeavor, but I thought running a year, the math 30 kilometers a day, that’s 11,000 kilometers.

So someone looking at a map and I immediately went right to the run around the world. And then, um, I looked at the logistics of running around the world cost of running around the world, visas. And I realized that as a first time adventure, that probably wasn’t quite doable. And I liked going down through Africa and it was the same sort of thing.

And then I kind of looked over to America and Vancouver to Beanos Aires . He’s just presented itself as quite an easy option compared to the other ones, 17,000 kilometers, 14 countries, but there was only two languages, English and Spanish. And with a British passport, you could enter every single, uh, country and bizarrely, the bigger countries had the longest durations you could stay.

[00:08:00] So actually you never needed a visa. Um, You basically running the directions were run down the Pan-American highway, turn left in Chile, and then you’ll be in Beaunos Aires. So everything was just kind of an easy option. And as a first big adventure, you kind of gave me that confidence ideal to do that. So, yeah, I was standing there really long way to run and just standing there with a baby stroller.

And it was weird because I actually, I went to the center of Vancouver with the rush hour. So everyone was in the grey suits. Walking to work. And I was pushing my baby stroller in a yellow t-shirt. Um, and I just felt that they just kind of, for me, it was symbolic of like, I’m kind of. Going in different directions and setting yourself.

Yeah. And I imagine, I mean, that took what just over a year. Was it so, um, being a PR man, I was trying to make it sound as good as possible. Uh, so it took me 367 running days to [00:09:00] do averaging about 46 kilometers a day. Um, but. My sister got engaged halfway through, so I I’m not, I don’t do it. Don’t do first.

and I don’t do records. It’s not my thing. Um, so there’s no way I was going to miss out on that. So I flew back for my sister’s wedding. I obviously had to take rest days here and there, and days were injury and packages arriving. The whole thing took about 14 months. Oh, okay. Yeah. Got you. Oh, wow. And, um, and the people you met along the way, I, I, I have to say to this day, I still count the American people as some of the friendliest and most hospitable people.

Did you, did you have the same sort of experience? I sat on the airplane, uh, going across the North America and I was like, I’m going to love the Canadians, not sure about the Americans. Really not sure. And I remember just walking out to Canadians saying, this is what I’m going to do. And they’d be like, Okay.

And you’re like, really? Okay. I [00:10:00] remember crossing the border into America, went to a supermarket lady, asked what I was doing. I told her, you got the tannoy. Everyone started cheering. And I was like, I thought this is amazing. And then everywhere I went. Exactly, exactly. As you said, you would just stop and hand me money.

Give me food, take me in. Um, and. Yeah, they kind of image has had in my head of the Americans was not the reality I had when I was actually in something. Yeah, it was exactly the same with me. You sort of go across and you, stop at a restaurant or a cafe and someone just goes, Oh, what are you doing? And. You will say what you’re doing now, but Oh God.

Okay. And you know, it’s really cool, whatever. And then they’ll, they’ll like buy your food without telling you you’ll bump into them at a petrol station or gas station as they call it. And they’ll just be like, here’s 20 bucks. Have a steak on me when you get to well for meals in Nebraska and elsewhere, you know what what’s going on?

[00:11:00] Where where’s this coming from? And I know Americans are Americans, but you say that I have done as I said 32,000 kilometers venturing around the world. And I still struggle to find a negative moment I’ve had for the human on those trips. And I don’t know if it’s because I’m mostly a solo adventurer that people look at you you’re doing something.

Physical pushing yourself to the limit and people feel that they want to either be part of it or they want to, or they can see that you’re vulnerable in a way I’m going to protect you. So it doesn’t matter where in the world you are. People seem to be the same. I think that’s nice unifying thing. The advantage of going alone rather than with someone is that you have that sense of.

Vulnerabilty and people are more encouraging to help you because you’re alone and vulnerable. Whereas with someone, I think a lot of people look at you and [00:12:00] say, Oh, they’re fine. You know, they, that they’re two together. So that even if you’re struggling, their immediate reaction was B because there’s two of them I don’t need to help.

Or I. That and I think going alone, actually, it’s a huge asset to these adventures. It’s definitely my preferred way of traveling. And so what were some of the sort of big highs you had from that trip? Because I imagine when you came back, you had a bit of TV coverage, a bit of newspaper articles. Um, but I’m on the actual journey.

Did you, what was there sort of moments along the way where you met people and you were just like, this is the craziest story. Yeah. There’s like, there’s always, it’s the things that you don’t plan and the things that just ha so I remember there was a, [00:13:00] so when you were running like over marathon day in, day out and you kind of get into this.

Perpetual motion that you just keep going, keep going, keep going. And sometimes it’s very hard to stop as you just have this desire to progress. And, but sometimes when you do manage to wrench yourself out of that routine, you can have some crazy, I remember. Good. I was running in through California and there was a sign saying soul camp and I was like, I ran past it.

And I remember talking to myself, which I started doing quite a lot of like, no, go back and investigate, find out what it is. And it was a bunch of DJs from, um, Uh, San Francisco who’d come up. Hired, the caravan park. I’m having a, basically a rave for a weekend and I managed to blag my way in, uh, cause the guy was like trying to get $32 out of me.

And then he asked me what I was doing and he’s like, go, get in there. And you know, that night I had a little Mexican lady coming up to me and giving me like a bowl of Vodka gummy bears. Um, I went to a pool party and I had [00:14:00] hashbrown is, um, and just had the most amazingly weird weekend. And then the next day woke up and ran 50 K.

Um, so the next time it was just like, did that happen? And then just some other kind of meeting, like I hitchhiked my way across the sea of Cortez, uh, because I had to get from Bahar to mainland. I didn’t want to take flights or ferry exists. Didn’t sit well with what I was doing. And I ended up, um, going on this kind of.

A week across the sea of Cortez, with this amazing guy actually, who had responded to a call, a shout I’d made for help. Um, and I was raising money for a charity called calm, which is the campaign against living miserably, you know, suicide. And that resonated with him because he’d been a firefighter at 9/11.

His job had been pulling the bodies of the firefighters out of the rubble and he suffered from PTSD. And then as a result actually tried to take his own life and was, um, was saved. And because he’d seen what I was [00:15:00] doing and the charity I was working with, this mini adventure within my big adventure, which was.

Fantastic. And then I think all the highlights just come to things like navigate your way around the Darien gap between Ecuador and Colombia, with a baby stroller and trying your hardest to refuse to take any sort of, kind of conventional travel and then running across the Atacama desert was insane.

And then. You know, running I ran over the Andes 4,800 meters pushing my scroller and you kind of met Matt. I met cyclists and they were like, this is difficult for us. Like, what are you doing? Um, but at that point, you’ll 13 months in 12 months in you’re the strongest you’ve ever been and actually running these things seems completely normal, but that’s unbelievable.

And so once you had finished that. Um, journey. So once you had finished that journey, you [00:16:00] came back to the UK. So yeah, I came back to the UK. How did that feel? I actually think that giving up alcohol really helped. I’ve heard from a lot of people that when you come back from a big adventure, then you’re immediately going to be, you’re going to be in a completely different environment in those, the one you’re used to.

But everyone’s going to be wanting to take you out for drinks. Everyone’s gonna want to hear your stories. Everyone’s going to be plying you with alcohol and you’re not really going to have anything else to do. So you have this, that there’s a trap of falling into the kind of guy who goes out every night.

And, uh, so I made a decision not to drink for nine months when I got back. Um, and you know, I was within a month, I was cycling from Edinburgh to, uh, London on my cause my sister take my bike up to Edinburgh, had to get it back. And then I kind of went off and did the three peaks challenge, but running it, um, so that was 700 K for the backpack on.

And then I went off to Scotland and did a 430 kilometre run. What I kind of [00:17:00] really tried to extend. The kind of strength. I had plow into new adventures cause I kind of felt poor and unemployed. So I just, I thought, you know, if you want, if you want this world that you want to enter into and sit back on your laurels rest, that you have to keep pushing out to show people that you’re not a one trick pony wonder.

Yeah. So, well, yeah, the one trick pony thing as well came, you know, cause I did. So I did the 17 times, and then I did a 700 Ks of the three peaks challenge. And then Scottish Isles. And then I realized that that’s what I become like id prooved. I could run a really long way by myself and that was it.

So I needed to diversify into other things. And that’s why, when that was the beginning of starting new things and the next thing was cycling across South America. Okay. And when you say cycling across South America, was that from [00:18:00] North to South or down the Andes? So, so I, I, um, Yeah, never, never cycle toured to it before.

So I spoke to a company fair light, um, who gave me a farren bike and a Bought panniers, whacked it on. Uh, I cycled to Gatwick, uh, no cycle to Victoria. Put my bike on the train, went to Gatwick bought a box in the airport and undid my bike flew. Um, Sao Paolo and then rebuilt my bike in. Sao Paulo airport, like 6:00 AM in the morning and then cycled across Brazil.

Across into Paraguay and then North up through the check, the shocker, and then, um, to a place called Villa Montez and Bolivia, which is the size of the Pyrenees, the low part of the Pyrenees. And then Pyrenees. Andes. And there’s went over the Andes and down to uni. And then across the salt flats is about 3,700 kilometers in 28 days.

How did, um, how did the two trips compare because [00:19:00] you ran across South America and then you cycled it. How, what was the sort of feeling of going incredibly slow to just slow? Well, I mean, sorry. Well, I’m going to take offense that you say that my running is incredibly slow, but, uh, I, I tell you realize that.

Well, when I cycle, um, When I cycle, you know, you’re covering a hundred miles a day when you’re running, you’re covering 25 to 30 miles a day. How did the two trips differ in terms of the sort of feelings towards them so that when you. So when you’re running your, the huge distances, you are running from a to B and you’re wanting to get from a, to B in the most direct way possible.

And there’s two things that does. One is the, if there’s a dangerous thing or anything like that on a bike, you [00:20:00] go around it. If you’re running, you go through it. And you just, you just hope. That everything’s going to be all right. Uh, but also it gives you because of that kind of lack of ability to, to meander, I feel you get a much, uh, true, a sense of a cross-section of a country.

You’re basically slicing from the top to the bottom North to South or East to West or whatever of that country. And you get to see every single, um, kind of geopolitical thing that hangs along that line. And that’s a really beautiful thing. But on the flip side is if you’re running and you see a sign post saying the most beautiful lighthouse you’ve ever seen in your entire life, you’re not going to run 11 miles to go and see it.

And if youre on a bike. You will take that detour. You go and see it. I also think that when you’re running, running is such a solo thing, but even when you arrive in places, you’re a runner. If you’re on a bike, There’s much more of a touring community invites that you become part of that [00:21:00] touring community.

So it’s more, even though you’re alone, you’re still part of something bigger when you’re running. It’s just you, is there a very few people do what you do? So no one really understands you. So, and I suppose logistically with all the equipment, um, whether what were the sort of main must have, do you feel when doing these sorts of trips?

Well, I kind of spent a lot of time trying to reduce my kit down. So nearly every, so my camping stove and my tent and my sleeping bag and all that kind of the liners. So the essentials of where do I sleep and how do I eat and how do I hydrate are pretty much the same for every single adventure I do.

Um, Which I, which I kind of like, so my I’ve got a one man tent, which is, uh, 600 grams. So if I’m going to lightweight, I take that. Or if I’m being more leisurely than I’ll take my Hubba, how the NSR two man [00:22:00] tent, so I can have a bit more luxury, but essentially I just have a very lightweight kit selection I use for everything.

Um, Uh, and I I’ve learning that when I start some, I did a cycle tour. I had two panniers on the front three panniers on the back. Um, you know, it was, the bike was fully laid and now I don’t have any panniers on my bike. I’ve just bought saddlebag. A rack kind of frame bag one on the handlebars and a couple of extra bags here and there.

So everything’s about being, it’s an efficient way of running. Um, making sure it’s as light as possible. We’re cycling them a bit more. What’s the word. I sometimes carry my laptop around. Well, I think when I ran the three peaks, I think I took, I took a tablet with me so I could watch TV and the internet, just one of these things.

How much do you run with when you have it on your back? Just a small backpack, you know, as sort of 20 litre. Yeah. So when I’m doing like the long [00:23:00] multi-day ones I’m running with, when I ran across Iceland, I had a 44 liter backpack. Um, carrying 15 kilos, um, and you know, still able to do the 50, 60 Ks a day. I did a sub four hour marathon with on, um, just what happened, but, um, yeah, so I, I, I’m a, more of a believer in taking more stuff and having a more comfortable journey then going absolute bare minimum because.

That’s only good for when you’re actually moving when you stopped moving, which is more of the time. I want to be comfortable for that time. Yeah, I can enjoy, I can draw pain longer when I’m running then. Yeah with cycling. I think it was in America where having my laptop because I was blogging at the time, but it was just now and again, you get these sort of moments.

And one of them was in Wyoming and Wyoming in the middle of nowhere. [00:24:00] And there is very sort of sparsely populated. I think it’s 200,000 for an area, the size of the UK. Anyway, I was sort of cycling through and hadn’t seen anything for about 50 miles. So now I came across the Mormons handcraft historical site, and it was the evening and say it was what’s the word.

So it was closing down at the time. And anyway, I sort of needed to loo. I went into the loo and I remember being there and being like, Whoa, it has electricity. It has a. It has this, I mean, this is amazing. Anyway, I ended up staying the night in the Mormons historical handcraft site, and I remember sitting down and watching, I think, uh, Sasha Baron Cohen movie or something like Borat.

And I just remember just thinking, like at the time I was, I felt it was the laps of luxury, but I imagine to anyone listening, sleeping in the loo of a public loo is [00:25:00] just beyond the joke. You just think God that’s disgusting, but because I’d been so used to camping in like dirt, to not having running water and no electricity, just one night with electricity and the basin was just like laps of luxury for me.

Yeah, there’s amazing how the little things in life becomes. So just so much more cherished when you’re, when you’re out. I actually sometimes rebel against, um, you know, when I go on, when I’m doing adventures in more developed countries, I kind of feel like I’m being a bit, you’re cheating, but it’s soft, slow.

I need to go. I like being places like Bolivia and Mongolia and um, to places that are a bit more. real. Cause I actually, I think quite a lot of what we have today is just makes us. So everything’s too easy. Um, well, you know what they say, it’s sort of human beings, design things to become lazier and lazier [00:26:00] like stairs are too easy.

We need an escalator to take us up. Escalate is too difficult. What about if we get a lift?

Uh, and then soon, soon we’ll have our packages delivered by drones. I, I, I would say that’s pretty, that’s no far off now. I think Amazon out with him. What came out of the advert three years. Okay. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, that’s why I live in the middle of nowhere in South France. Well, you can tell Amazon. Yeah, you can deliver it to here.

And then I

could rely on them. Just very sad. It can be so easy. And in terms of your running, I mean, if you’re running nearly every day for a year, you must’ve come into. What sort of motivated you when times were really tough in terms of what was a sort of [00:27:00] feeling or something in the back of your mind that sort of kept you going

it’s kind of different or depending on what situation you’re in. But I was talking about this with someone earlier, and I think this is quite often. A misconception when people look at adventures and they go look at that guy, he’s got to get up and go to go and run across a country. And he must be the happiest person in the world.

I actually think that quite when you look at adventures and like the kind of psychologists would kind of look in boys, what’s wrong with that person? What is the thing that’s missing? I might kind of try and work it out and distill it and convert, but I kind of see myself, like I am a happy person. I’m not, I’m not in any way sad or depressed person or anything like that.

But I do think that what I do is I have a lot of self doubts. I [00:28:00] probably don’t like myself that much. And, um, I don’t think I’m good enough. And I basically try and draw on all the negative stuff that’s in me. And then I kind of put it through this internal processor, which turns it into a desire to prove to myself.

That I can do it and I don’t do it. As I said, I don’t do records. I don’t do first. I try not to, I have to talk about my ventures because it’s what I do as a job, but I don’t celebrate when I finish an adventure, which I probably should. It’s all just to prove to me that I can do it. Um, And, but I’m doing it in places.

I want to do it. I’m doing it for positive reasons. I’m doing it for passion. But when I guess tough, it’s just like, you need to prove to you that you can do this. So don’t let yourself down. I’m not never letting anyone else then. Um, so it’s just like, yeah, I just don’t want to disappoint myself. Yeah. I think there’s a huge element of that in terms [00:29:00] of, I mean, I suppose when I first got into it, it was very much that.

Make trying to make a mark. It was trying to sort of, as you say, these sort of insecurities, that one has in trying to sort of show that you are bigger and better or whatever it was, as I say now, it’s sort of more for the love, but is this sort of, sometimes when you push putting yourself in such horrendous situations, people must ask the question of like, why.

Why would you ever injure that? But there’s a part of me that I sort of feel by enduring it, it just means that later on in life, when something really bad happens out of my control, I can injure that better then. Um, w what I would, if I couldn’t injure this. Yeah, I kind of, yeah, very similar to that. And I kind of looked at [00:30:00] it.

Um, and it’s probably an analogy, lots of people use, but I look at like, this is me in the middle and this is what I think I can achieve. And every time I come up against that, and that’s really difficult and I pushed that the circle out a little bit, you might have all that extra space of new things. I’m now deaf will think I’m capable of doing.

Um, and I think that comes back to when you’re talking about going bigger and bigger and bigger, you know? So when you run over a mountain and you get to 4,800 meters, you’re like, I just, I did that. What can I do next? How can I push that? So it’s almost now like I’m seeking that horrible place where everyone else is sitting there going, why would you do that?

I’m doing it because I need that. Cause I need to be able to push the barrier further. I want to see how far. What I’m capable of, where are the boundaries? Because I spent so long living in this little, this is what you do. This is how you live your life. And I want to expand it, but also kind of, I do, [00:31:00] I watch quite a lot of these other groups who are setting again, usually, well, your job, and you should go doing adventures and you’ll be happy if you do that.

And I just hope that the people who buy into these, um, communities. Do sometimes take a step back and think that to actually go and do these hardships is a very, it’s quite often a very lonely place with very little feature security, no routine, uh, and it’s, it can be a weird world to be in. So, you know, I think the people who can live a society of, you know, contributing positively to those around them and having community that is actually sometimes a good place to be.

Um, yeah, I, I think, um, what was it? I, that, you know, Alaistair Humphreys, absolutely great guy. He, he, I remember, I think it was on his Instagram or his blog. He said he got a message from a [00:32:00] guy who had sort of spoken to him for a sort of year saying how he wanted to go on these grand adventures. And he had a kid and a family or whatnot.

And then about a year later, he saved up all this money and decided to cycle across the Himalayas or somewhere, somewhere like that, that, and he said after two weeks, he quit. And he said, I realized then and there that these big grand adventures, which I sort of was envious of people doing that. Not for me.

I miss the comforts of home. I miss my family and this sort of connection that one has. And, um, I’m actually happy just doing the sort of weekend or the week here, but these grand adventures, aren’t, they’re really exciting. And you know, I absolutely love them, but I can’t recommend them to everyone. It’s almost impossible to, you have to decide whether that’s the sort of life as you say, with no routine [00:33:00] financial security whatsoever.

But you didn’t really do it for any reason, other than the love of actually pushing yourself further and further. And you know, when the more you analyze it, they want to get too, too deep into it. But the more you honor that you realize it’s quite a selfish. You know, I’m trying, I’m doing something because I want to do it.

And I do it on my terms to push myself as far as I can go. And so it’s about it. That’s why I spend a lot of time when I’m not thinking adventures, trying to make videos about how to do adventures and kit to use and like sharing my adventure because you can’t just take, take, take, take, take. And feel good about it.

You have to give back to balance are the kind of life equation, um, being a human being. And is that why you’re started doing these vlogs on it? Yeah, the vlogs thing. Um, [00:34:00] so I’ve done lots of videos in the past. This just recent vlogs is because I, um, I just want to. Uh, use it as a tool to actually push myself.

So I’ve got an adventure planned for next year, which sadly I can’t talk about, but there’s a massive amount of preparation that needs to go into that and training and, you know, I want to film it the best I can and what better way to do it than to make content and get share with people and get them to, you know, I just, I did one yesterday on, you know, my daily workout, which is about four hours and burns 1500 calories.

Well, when I’m doing it, I’m mostly in video and I can see the rolls of fat on me and I’m like, wow. You know, but by putting that video right there, I’m holding myself accountable and I, uh, I’m going to have to keep going. And like the first two videos were just going on a hike and then I’ll, I’ll go and do a run and I’ll do a cycling.

I just use it as a tool to hopefully help other people see what it’s like to be an adventurer. Maybe teach people some [00:35:00] stuff about my life. Maybe get people to tell me, come and help me. So it’s just a way of opening myself up to people when I’m stuck alone in a house. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Four hours. Did you say because that’s taking it.

So I’ll do like a, I’ll do a, an hour and a bit walk in the morning. I’ll do an hour of yoga and I’ll do an hour strength training and I’ll do an hour on a bike or a run. Well, you must be almost. And your, your base quite near the mountains at the moment arent you. Yeah. So I went and did a nice two day hike over the mountains the other day, which was slightly more adventurous than I had initially planned.

Like I got up to this is the Brecker, the rural land. And then the other side, no one had actually ventured down the other side. And I realized why when I got kind of. The waist deep in snow, trying to push my way down this quite dangerous, walking over like rivers were underneath me. And, uh, but it was great fun.

So [00:36:00] hopefully more and more of that. Yeah. And so, in terms of your, the vlogs, are you sort of talking about your diet, your daily routine, your daily, your equipment? Is this the idea. Yeah, it’s going to be a, so like that one was about there. It was about doing what I do workout. Then I’ll look at one, looking at nutrition.

Uh, I’ll do some jokey ones. Like what’s it like to go hiking in a kilt, uh, being Scottish. But, um, and I’ll do, you know, there’s a lot of deer around here and I’m a big, I love going and watching the deer and stuff. So I’ll go out and film the deer and like share it, share things that people back home might not be able to see at the moment.

So. It’s just basically, it’s just as a study, it’s a variety. It’s a way of getting me to do stuff that is constructive. Um, especially when you’re writing a book, very easy to sit at your desk and then look up at seven o’clock at night and realize you haven’t been outside. So by putting a tool in place, it [00:37:00] means I have to go and do stuff I have to break up.

The laptops. Another question I wanted to ask was sort of about running and the sort of failures you’ve had along the way, because as you say, you started out small and you sort of, as you say, you’ve progressed into this huge ultra marathon runner and adventurer, I’ve never actually done an ultra, maybe not.

No, no additional one. So I run, I run really long distances in, I think when I did the, um, I did the endure 24, where you do the five, the laps of five miles. Now in 24 hours, I did 80 something miles. So. So 135 K in 24 hours, I’ve done 78 kilometre a day. I’ve run 400 K races, but multi-stage races. I’ve never actually done an official ultra marathon.

So it’s on the list. Last year was the first [00:38:00] official marathon that I’d ever run and so it was actually a lot harder than actually running. And it’s sort of a marathon as an adventurer or an ultra marathon because. You’ve sort of, you’re sort of motivated by your time. Whereas when you’re doing as this sort of adventure, you’re sort of more motivated by what you see.

And there’s no sort of cat crowds when I got to Argentina. And as I told you, I needed to get to Buenos Aires for New Years Eve. Um, I was very much motivated by time. Cause that that section I did 28 days straight in 40 degree heat. And I ran an average of 58 K a day bang in 28 days. So that was, that was being pushed by time because I might arrive in Buenos Aires, as a day early.

So you must’ve been pretty chuffed with that. I was pretty happy, pretty happy. He says I wasn’t drinking, so I didn’t really celebrate, [00:39:00] but I, I know from experience that with running expeditions, In terms of either training or nutrition or something on the lines, has there ever with these expeditions that you do, is there a time when you’ve failed or, and sort of, what have you learned in these years of doing this?

Right. So I failed, uh, Hi, I’ve failed many times, but I got two big failures in my life when it comes to running. And the first one was when I did the Cape wrath ultra in 2018. Yeah. 2018. And, um, I. It’s a 400 K race, eight days across Scotland. And, uh, it’s weird. Cause it’s in my eyes. It’s a failure. I came third.

Um, but I ran the first [00:40:00] four days running. I was in third place and then I sprained my ankle and then on day five I went out there and I just couldn’t let go of this. You’re in third place. And I walked beginning of the day and everyone like the, literally the whole field were classmate or saying, Oh, it’s so sad to see like this.

And, um, and then I find a pub on the side of the road, like just random hotel in middle Scotland spelled had a pint and just said, no, this is not how this ends. And like when I there and I started running around going right, who’s got painkillers. And I found a doctor who gave me some Co-codamol authentic and.

I ran for four days on a sprained ankle. Uh, and every day, every evening I couldn’t walk and I had to put my leg off and I couldn’t, but I did it and I got to the end and I was like, I was, I’m a hero. I finished that race. Um, and then quickly learned that it’s very, they’re still living with it now, but I should have.

[00:41:00] I failed because I should have pulled that out race. The moment I sprayed that ankle, and it’s about knowing your limitations. Um, and, uh, if you actually want to succeed for a long time, then you have to take little hits along that way. And then the second time was, uh, was in the 2019 when I was backing up the Aconcagua ever hang together, Madagascar was the last one and two weeks before I went, I was.

Here. I went for a run along the back, um, track and I’m told I it down a rabbit hole and twisted the other ankle. And I just couldn’t couldn’t I couldn’t even carry on. I had to turn around and limped back. And everyone was like, you shouldn’t go to Madagascar if you’re you can’t walk. And I was like, no, I’m going.

And I flew all the way there. And then I bought another flight to get to the North of Madagascar. Then I got all the way to the beginning is my 15 kilo backpack with 2000 kilometers to go. I went for a run and I couldn’t even run, but I use a [00:42:00] backpack and. And just stubbornness and trying to prove a point to myself.

And maybe at that point I’d done been exceeded and everything that year I was like, I can’t fail. And I had to learn how to gracefully admit, defeat and come back with my tail between my, my legs. But I, the other kind of failures I look at, I don’t, I haven’t really had any other, nothing else has really gone wrong.

But, uh, those were the two lessons that stick with me. Don’t do massive pro running, um, expeditions with other people. Um, so this is the sort of, part of the Show where we asked the same five questions to every person that comes on. Yep. And so the first one is, what’s the one thing that you crave or miss from home or the weird [00:43:00] thing, which people will be like, what.

Uh, I go to, I really like, I don’t miss them. Like I see that being at home is that I don’t like, I like being on the adventures. I really miss Jaffa cakes, like Jaffa cakes. The one thing that I absolutely miss and then just completely weirdly a love, hot bubble bath with like candles. But you don’t get out when you’re adventuring, but I miss that.

It’s a big luxury to have while you’re adventuring. I mean, it is, I mean, you could probably try and recreate it in a river if you must. But now I thought that when I was in Iceland, I was going to get them, but I actually never find a hot spring when I was

the next one is what’s your favorite adventure book? I think the book that has for me inspired me the most was the Ben Fogle, James Cracknell, um, rowing across the Atlantic. [00:44:00] Um, I absolutely loved that book and the way that you have the two, the two people with the two different, um, takes on everything and how, how that kind of played out.

And that was one of the books that really. Made me feel that I wanted to get into endurance long distances kind of stuff. I went to a talk with Ben Fogel on it. It was absolutely fascinating, the sort of conflict that those two had together, but at the same time came out of it. As he said, one went to compete and the other one went to complete.

And the two different mindsets clash massively. Um, as you probably know, from the book. Yeah. Yeah. I fully admire both. Unbelievable. Did you have a, like an inspirational figure growing up? So. I don’t really have a single figure, like, cause I wasn’t really into adventure until I [00:45:00] turned like 34. It wasn’t really a thing I was doing.

But like following on Ben Fogel has been someone that I’ve looked at thinking I want to have his life. I want to be able to do what he does. Um, so that’s kind of as a guiding thing. I’m not like all the people that go through the big Ranulph Fiennes and all that kind of stuff. That’s just not really. It’s not really ever been part of my life, but what I kind of think I do is I look up all these people and I pick out attributes about them and I create my own character, which is this impossible person that I’m trying to be.

And I will never be an always be let down in that. I’m never that person. Well, I, I like to take a little bit of everyone rather than just focus on one single. Yeah. Yeah. I, I agree with that. Um, as I say, growing up, I was a big sports fan. So mine were more sort of sporting stars rather than adventurous.

And the, so the next one is, do you have a sort of favorite quotes [00:46:00] or motivational quotes? Yes. So, um, just before I did running the Americas, um, I went to a pub with my friend and he pulled out his phone and he said, watch this. And it’s, uh, Alan Watts. And it’s what would you do if money was no object to that?

Just that line just makes me remember why you’re right there. You’re not doing this for money. You’re not doing this for an a, you’re doing this because it’s your desire, your passion. And that’s why you sit, do it. And by just keeping that everyone I speak to, I say, you have to watch this video. You have to listen to this.

What would you do if money was no object? And that is just kind of how I. Try and live my life, um, which is quite easy when you’re adventure, because there isn’t very much money. So basis people who are listening to the show are probably keen to go on adventures or running adventures. Like you what’s the one thing you would recommend [00:47:00] them to get them started.

If, if you were going to do it, if you really come from nothing and you want to get into adventuring, then I would pick a nice, simple route. Like the West Highland way or something like that. And try, you’ll use that as a training run, no matter what you’re doing in life, hoping adventure, you still need training, runs, training, hikes, training cycles.

They’re picking a nice route that you can start. And if it’s too difficult for you, you can stop and then you can go back and restart and then carry on. Uh, so just by having a really, um, remember that no one else cares. What you’re doing or how you’re doing, are you going up? Because you always, you get wrapped up in you’re on.

Eventually you think everyone’s watching you, you realize that actually no one is watching you because they have their own lives to deal with and you’re on your own. So don’t let the idea that if you try trying to do something big and new and you have to stop and come back, that’s not a failure. That’s just a, you learning how to get to where you want to [00:48:00] get to.

Yeah, I agree with that. We were speaking on the podcast last time with. Uh,Geordie Stewart. And he was, and we basically said, you know, when the first time you break like a hundred miles cycling or, you know, you break the first time you do a marathon, you just got to remember that. No one cares. You’re not going, you’re not going to break any records, you know, against it.

It’s just purely for your own accord. And while you might be that again, yes, you shouldn’t push yourself based on what other people think it should just be your. Sort of, what’s the word? Um, it’s your trip? So make it yours rather than I should, I should carry on. I should do 120. I should do 150 or something like that because otherwise people will think I’m being lazy or something along those lines.

Yeah. That, that, that is to all, all books of every part of life. Like I ride spent [00:49:00] 12 years working in the city because I thought that’s what my dad wanted me to do. Um, and when I told them that he said, I never told you to work in the city. That was your own, you just manifested that. And it’s like, and everything in life, just do it because you want to do it.

And that’s, that’s why you’re doing it. Yeah, I agree. And so what are you doing now and how can people follow your adventures? So, um, I can’t say, well, my next adventure will be, but it’ll be like five months, six months long. It’ll be in 2021. It’s either going to be a really long one or it’s going to be a really long one in terms of distance.

We’re really low one in terms of time, depending on what COVID does. And at the moment, no, I’m just hunkering down and trying to get my book written. And, uh, trying to get as strong as I possibly can, to be able to take on whatever the adventure will be in, in 2021, but I’m going to concentrate and putting content onto, onto YouTube and Instagram, [00:50:00] which is Jamie is `running already.

And it’s really cool. If more people than my mum watched them. Well, I’m definitely gonna check it out. And as you say, you’re started these daily vlogs say there’ll be like 2or 3 a week. Um, and I’d recommend everyone to go check it out and thank you very much. Check out the mountains and the beautiful French countryside around you at the moment.

Yeah, I look forward to, I’m going to enjoy what the countryside has to offer and then it’ll have the wine and duck that has, well, I look forward to, um, following you on your next journey. And once you’ve finished that, come back on the show and tell us how it went. Well, that sounds great. Well, Jamie, thank you so much for coming on today and good luck in your future adventures.

Thank you very much. And I look forward to following, whatever adventures you do and meet and meeting all the people you’re going to be speaking to over the next few [00:51:00] months.

EP.004: Geordie Stewart

GEORDIE STEWART (EXPLORER & AUTHOR)

Geordie Stewart is a British author, explorer, mountaineer and former British Army, officer. In May 2011, aged 22, he became the youngest Briton to climb the Seven Summits – the highest mountain on each of the seven continents. In October 2019, he completed a 22,500-mile solo cycle around the world. On this weeks episode, we talk about his first summit on Mount Everest and how he was 150 metres from the top before making the decision to turn around. We talk about his Cycle around the world and the problems he encountered along the way.

Geordie’s Website

Geordie’s Instagram

Geordie’s Book “A Rolling Stone” Available at – https://amzn.to/36iIkrK

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Transcript of our Conversation

Interview with Geordie Stewart

[00:00:00] Interview with Geordie Stewart: Got incredibly altitude sick. He had summited twice before, but the same altitude sick and was throwing photos of his family off the mountain saying he was going to die and it required. And he didn’t, he didn’t want the oxygen. We gave him; he refused it because he wanted to die in peace.

So my next guest is an endurance athlete and author. He was the youngest Brit to complete the seven summits and last year got back from an epic cycle ride. And I’m delighted to introduce to the show, Geordie Stewart, Geordie. Hey John. Nice to see you virtually see you you’ve bit. Very nice. Yeah. Good to see you too.

So how did you get into all these Epic adventures? How do I get into it? [00:01:00] In terms of big adventures. I think the most obvious starting point was a book I read when I was 17. My dad gave me Bear Grylls’s book about climbing Everest. I guess I was revising for my A levels at the time gave me this.

And for some reason, something about the story about his journey or Everest just struck a chord in away. So I think from that moment, I. Obsessed over Everest, certainly, but then the seven summits. So the highest mountain on every continent sort of fell out from that as I kind of delved into Wikipedia and it some kind of ticked a lot of boxes about what I wanted in terms of adventure and travel and meeting people and proving something, a bit of self-esteem and.

A lot of those boxes. And I sort of then set about that particular journey, because of the book, I guess, historical, if you go back to, you know, when I was younger, I’ve always been outdoorsy. I’ve always been adventurous, you [00:02:00] know, running around in fields and having too much energy climbing trees. I was that sort of person when I was younger.

And I think that sort of adventurous spirit is probably we’ve been there in away. It just. Maybe needed an Avenue to express itself. And I think certainly when you’re younger, it can be a bit harder to do these big expeditions, but you get to a certain age, and you’re a bit freer to do. So university, you had this big idea to do the seven summits?

No, it was a university pre-university. Yeah. So I, I sort of, again, Unconventionally most people who do these big expeditions, they weren’t as young as I was then. And again, looking back now I can acknowledge that it was a more abnormal thing to do than I probably appreciated it at a time. I basically, this is 18.

I had it sort of gap year plan, you know, to do the normal, [00:03:00] normal trips Thailand or Australia, whatever. And then I basically just. I became obsessed with trying to do these Seven summits. And I basically then cancelled all my plans and just worked seven days a week, putting up marquees, working in weddings, working in call centres, you know, working as an indoor, carpet or what else was I doing?

Gardening, things like that. I like anything and everything every day, a week. And I just sacrificed. six months, certainly it to pay for the first expedition to Aconcagua and my gap year, which again was a huge step. That was the first, first big expedition highest mountain outside the Himalayas. I lied on the application form to get a place on the trip.

You know, cause I had no outdoor experience really. And I sort of was claiming I’d done the great peaks in the Alps. And I knew nothing basically, really. And I used some of my old dad’s, my dad’s old sailing kit and, you know, sort of improvise my way through and actually what was quite a significant [00:04:00] expedition, you know, thankfully that went well.

And then I again went back to work. I had very little money and then I went to Kilimanjaro. On a sort of shoestring budget, like a thousand pounds to go do Kili and, You know, that ended up, I mean, successfully on my 19th birthday summiting, but I ran out of money and was wild camping. If you can call it down the streets of Nairobi.

And then I eventually went to Elbrus, before university and then, and then university a year and then Denali, then tried to do Everest failed. And then, did the other three. So I order the seven summits were pre and during university and then the army came after. Wild camping in Nairobi. That’s I mean, I’ve been to Nairobi.

It’s chaotic. Yeah. I know you have, it’s that whole, that whole trip was [00:05:00] madness really. and it was one of those things, which I didn’t really think about until, until I wrote the book and my sister read it and where that was mental. but I was, well, I was just turned 19, but I had the long story was I.

Had a short amount, a small amount of money for the expedition paid for it. went up the mountain with a local guide, cause I wasn’t allowed to do it by myself, came back and then try to get money out of a cash machine and had nothing. So I didn’t have any money. I only had my return bus ticket, to get to the airport and my return flight home.

So. I didn’t have anywhere to stay and didn’t have any money to do so, other than like a pound by, I dunno, five cigarettes like you can buy individual cigarettes and things. So I was doing that and then just camped out in an alleyway, somewhere with a couple of rucksacks around me. Sacrificing food for cigarettes day.

Well, something like that. Yeah. I think it seemed a wise idea when you’re a teenager. Yeah, [00:06:00] of course. and so we that was a Kilimanjaro. And so you had done three before, three self-funded before you started looking at the big ones. yeah, those three were self-funded. So again, just through a variety of jobs and I basically just didn’t have a social life or anything.

and then once the university started, let loose for a bit, as you should at university. And then I had this, weird, transition around Christmas time where. I watched a TV program and somebody climbed a big mountain in Nepal, and I thought, Jesus story to get you, get your off back and gear. And I immediately then paid the deposit for Denali the following July.

so what, six, seven months after that. And then again, slightly went from student let’s get pissed and make a fool out of yourself mode to get into expedition mode again. So, you know, [00:07:00] this was this weird thing university where I would try and socialize and the normal thing and would, but then I’d also be dragging people up and down and ties up and down the beach North to train for a sledge, filling expedition and Denali, and then I’d be running however many times a week and you know, was working incredibly hard to try and get the money.

So it was. This weird, divide between normal student life and then what I was trying to do on the side. and then. Denali was yeah, July 29, 2009. which was again, a wonderful expedition. just a lot of fun, just a fun trip. I think the others were more demanding, in terms of what I was trying to do, whereas that one, I felt pretty confident about my own physical ability and.

I was more mature. I was probably in better mental headspace and I was just, we had a lot of laughs, in a very remote [00:08:00] place with quite a cohesive 12 person team. And you’re self-sufficient, you’ve got your sledges, your digging in your tents and you’re living out of your slugs and there’s something sort of self-sustainable about that, which was enjoyable.

Yeah. So once you, because I know that your first attempt at Everest was an interesting one. Can you tell us a bit about that? Yeah. So yes, the post-Denali, then I then decided on Everest and, I can pay the deposit, which was as, is often the case of really good. You know, way to commit to something. If you’d paid, I don’t know, a thousand-pound deposit, then it sort of just goes, okay, this is a, it’s a line in the sand and this is your deadline.

And you can work towards that. And then I just spent many, many months and hundreds of emails and letters and phone calls to try and get sponsorship, which was just a really demoralizing [00:09:00] process. I learned an enormous amount and I look back now and I’m slightly. Cringing about how I did it or may mean in terms of my own naivety.

I’d say rather than my methods, if you’re just, we had no idea what we were doing. I had a friend who was helping me a lot. but eventually we got there just, I think, through sheer perseverance, really, and then ended up on Everest and I was 20. And. I had done big expeditions, but not really big expeditions, not so two month expeditions, which is whatever it was.

I think I’ve found that, quite hard. I was still young, I think mentally still quite young. anyway, we then. Fast forward, the climb was going okay. I wasn’t super strong, but I was competent. I was confident as well in my own ability to summit. And then I got a really bad throat infection at base camp before a summit attempt.

so I was struggling to breathe at a really [00:10:00] bad voice. Anyway, we got to high camp. I was struggling to eat much at this point. I’d had an a half pack of jelly babies or something, but pretty much not much for a couple of days. And was. Was pretty ill in terms of my breathing and had taken a bit of time set off for the summit.

And then it was, as you say, interesting. and it’s one of those where you go, it was sort of a perfect. not literally the weather was perfect, which is one of those ironies, but it was a perfect storm in terms of situations, that all emerged at the same time. So, you know, first of all, my, my head torch cut out, batteries wern’t happy with the cold spare battery didn’t work.

So I was sort of fumbling around in the dark and free climbing up without a rope and, you know, things like that and relying on Moonlight, which. You got, it seemed fine at the time, you know, just plowing on, but actually on the north face of Everest. That’s, that’s a pretty rash thing to do and you can’t [00:11:00] see properly.

And then I had three incidents back to back. One was a teammate. Well, the sh sherpa at the bottom of the, first step got incredibly altitude, sick he had summited twice before, but very altitude sick. Was throwing photos of his family off the mountain and saying he was going to die and it required. And he didn’t want, he didn’t want the oxygen.

We gave them. he refused it because he wanted to die in peace. which. Was, there’s not much we can do about it. And it required another shepa to come behind him and literally punch him in the face. you know, full, full sort of Mike Tyson style and floor him, and then wake him up and see what you’re coming down on me.

So, Keith and I carried on going keith then. he, he sort of asked me whether it was cloudy outside and whether we should descend, it was perfectly skies. So his eyesight had frozen over as corny as it started to freeze. So he [00:12:00] descended again, fast forward, came across another teammate at the base of the second step who was incredibly altitude, sick, blocking the route.

And he can really remember who he was. Where he was, what his name was, how to put on a rucksack. We have to put that on for him. So, yeah, just chaos really. And then got to the top of the second step and came across another teammate, had run out of oxygen. and so gave him one of mine and spoke with him for a bit until someone else would take him down and then carried on going and then got to a stage where I turned around.

so, teammate descending spoke to him and basically realized that I didn’t have time in my view to safely summit and come back down again. so I was probably 150 meters from the top, which is about two and a half hours, which is not very far, but I think. I was very tired, [00:13:00] certainly, but I basically concluded that I couldn’t, I still think I would have summited.

I think I would have just blindly and blinkered in my perspective would have continued on going and summited. I just was along myself and I was now 21 years old and I’m pretty confident I would have had a proper drawa on the way down. So I turned around and then yeah, had an Epic descent. Live to tell the tale, but didn’t, couldn’t have the summit photo I wanted.

Yeah, because I imagine I it’s a difficult one. When you have put so much time and effort into. You know, training for these huge expeditions and finance as well, and then to be 150 meters away and sort of feel like it’s not your fault. I mean, when you came back, did you feel, was there a feeling of giving up or did it just sort of make you slightly more determined?

[00:14:00] I think to be honest, I was a bit melancholic when I got back. I just, I’d lost a lot of weight. I was physically pretty drained, mentally pretty drained. I mean, the very, very intense experience. you know, to have one of the guys who I saw, the one who was talking to his rucksack ended up just off the route.

just off the route and was lucky to survive. My other teammate, who I descended with fell in a crevas, I’d seen, you know, several bodies on the route and, you know, I was very young and it’s, it was I think, quite a lot, to take on board actually. And within a week of that day, I was, you know, back at Heathrow Airport and.

I think that was, an odd transition. And I think I spent a lot of time trying to come to terms with what had happened. Really. I don’t mean the actual events themselves, from what I’ve seen and done that partly that it [00:15:00] was partly the amount of energy. As you said, an effort that I had expended trying to get to that stage.

And then you have to basically realize that what I did was the right thing to do, and that’s a big transition. And I spoke to a lot of teammates about, Our own experiences on whole expedition, why other people are having summited and specifically why I didn’t submit. And you know, sometimes when you’re young and gung ho and matcha, you just think you can sort of rule the world in the puzzle pieces that will go into place and all will be well.

And I think I struggled with that transition when it sort of didn’t go according to the plan, I’d set myself. But I think that’s when I sort of required friends and, the wisdom of people older than me to, to give me insights basically as to whether I’d made the right choice. And I found a men’s reassurance in that to basically then accept the fact that in reality, I’d [00:16:00] done the right thing.

In hindsight, if I were in the same position again, I would have made the same decision and it was the right thing to do in terms of my own safety. Really. So then again, I think that now when I go, you know, the 20 year old kid days, Those bodies on that mountain who basically have exactly the same dilemma and don’t do the same thing.

And even the following day, there was a guy who I knew at base camp, who almost had exactly the same dilemma I had almost to the letter. And he carried on going summited died on the way down when his. You got cerebral edema. The following year, when I summited, there was another story of a guy who summited late, died on the way down with bad eyes, certain cerebral edema, there’s a body.

I passed a young Canadian climber. He tried to do it at oxygen summit. Third died on the way down because he submitted too late, got [00:17:00] cerebral edema. And I think when you suddenly have context of all of these, you go. I’m grateful. I turned around and didn’t become a statistic. Yeah. I mean, God, I mean, there’s such a, I don’t know what it is about that mountain, but I, as you say, it’s a sort of dilemma between the financial commitment and the sort of pressure that you put on yourself to summit and by not doing it, I mean, to have the courage to turn around and say, no, especially at that age is, you know, unbelievable.

And of course, yeah. A really difficult decision at the time, but definitely looking back the right one and yeah, as you say, you could have so easily just being another statistic and another body being carried off the mountain. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you’re right. It’s there is fortunate in that regard and I think there’s that, Mountain’s a funny one.

[00:18:00] It’s yeah, I’m sure we will, get onto that. We talk about 2011, but. I, this isn’t meant to be a back in my day, cause it was only 10 years ago thing. But if I think of, I spoke to my teammates about this after those pictures about Everest last year and the year before came out and I. I couldn’t relate to them at all.

I couldn’t make sense of it because I spent four months, at least on that mountain, like up and down on both attempts and was never in a queue and was never in, a line of people. And even when I summited, I spent an over an hour on the top with virtually no one around except for my teammates. Certainly when I had that big issue in 2010 it’s because there was no one else around it.

Wasn’t because there was a queue of people holding me up. So I then see, you know, I remember in 2011, when I started off from the summit, I was completely by [00:19:00] myself and I went off without a sherpa and just headed into the dark because I was like, cool, I want to go to the summit now. And off we go. And I then look at those photos and I go, that’s not it doesn’t, I can’t relate to it.

But I think there is still something about that mountain, which as you say, seemed to. Just drive people in a different way. I think because the financial element is more significant and more importantly than that, the ego is, is far more significant as well. You know, you’re going it’s Everest. It’s not, it’s not an unknown mountain.

So then the ego and the risk and the expectation is that much higher. And indeed the mindset of the people that do it is probably different to that over an unknown mountain. You know, it’s not it’s because it’s, it’s because it’s Everest, it attracts a certain type of person who is probably of the mindset that they are willing to do that.

I think a lot of people now [00:20:00] see Everest because so many people seem to do it. And then people see those pictures. There’s a sort of feeling of, Oh, anyone can do it. Or do you think it’s very now after seeing those pictures more and more people will be sort of put off. I think amongst real climbers, proper climbers, who have been doing it their life they’ve always had this torn relationship with Everest.

I had a guide, for example, on my second trip, who for 20 years had been chatting away saying he would never climb Everest because it’s a cliche thing it’s commercialized and anyone can do it. And yet he was given the opportunity to climb there and he goes sure Ill that. I think a lot of people. Would love the opportunity and would still try and grab that with both hands and often might underestimate it as well.

However, as for those [00:21:00] pictures, I think it’s still a really difficult achievement and still worthy of credit. I think this is the idealistic scenario is that you almost have an asterix next to it about how you did it. you know, I know I spoke to one of my very, wise teammates actually, before and after our expedition, he was with me in 2010 and he was like, look, there’s a spectrum here at bank of how you want to do Everest.

And on this side is say to unsupported, this is your wine hole maximum. These are your goals, Carlton Bruner’s, we’re going solo without oxygen and just find smashing it. And they’re heroes. They’re usually stacks and. Now on the other side, you have people who have unlimited oxygen. We have unlimited sherpas was with an unlimited budget.

You got a helicopter back to Katmandu from base camp who short rope down and up the mountain. And that’s fine, but what annoys me? it annoys me in [00:22:00] adventure in general, if I’m being cynical is I don’t see why people need to lie about how they’ve done things or indeed lie about having done things, because it’s a lot easier to just do it properly and do it the way you’re most comfortable with.

And then, Hey Presto, you don’t need to lie about it. I think some Everest will always. Remain appealing to certain characters. I remember a friend saying to me, I think everyone at some point or another within reason has probably dreamt of climbing Everest and I don’t, you know, of what it’s like anyway, and I don’t think that desire will disappear because a couple of photos of a near the top, I think the desire will still be there.

The parameters for difficulty will be minimized because that’s what modern technology does. And I think that’s fine. If you really want to challenge yourself and masochistically, put yourself in a tough position on the side of the mountain, there’s other ones you can do it [00:23:00] on. If you want, you still climb Everest and people will still want to do that.

I, I think as you say, it’s that, It’s that feeling of the biggest mountain and to the world or the biggest mountain in the world you’ve climbed. And you can sort of have that on your CV. I think a lot of people like that sort of feeling that feeling of conquering the biggest mountain. Yeah. The biggest, hardest, fastest, whatever toughest it’s longest, you know, look at any, look at any subtype on a book.

It’s still everyone. It’s the same. It’s trying to get sponsored as well. You know, it’s hard to get sponsored if you’re like. I’m a young guy or young girl, he wants to climb Everest. It’s like, Hey, Presto, join the club. But you know which, which is the catch 22, trying to get sponsorship. You then need to become and do something in order to get the money for it.

I couldn’t have got the funding. I don’t think unless I was going to become the youngest because there’s no media angle. You’re [00:24:00] not going to get a TV program in a, a big marketing deal. If you’re not going to get media exposure. So then this catch 22, and that goes back to what we were talking about earlier.

It’s really nice going on a trip with my cycle, for example, when there’s no desire for media, when there’s no need for sponsorship, because you can just go and you don’t need to say I’m the youngest fastest, whatever, you can just do a trip cause you want to do a trip. I think back in 2012, when I was trying to get sponsorship for my cycle across the States at the time I thought it was quite a big thing to do.

And I remember going, I think, to a bike shop to see if the bike shop would. Give me a sponsorship. And I remember his just expression was just like, Oh God, another one, another one. And I thought it was a really big deal. I was like, Oh, you know, and he’s like, well, you know, if you do it on a uni cycle, then I might.

And I was like, gosh. [00:25:00] Yeah, I know. And anyway, when I did, I did see a uni cyclist going from Canada down to the tip of. The Cape of horn? yeah, Cape Horn. So yeah, a lot of these things, a lot of these big adventures, especially in the last, I think 10, 20 years are slowly becoming harder and harder to get a sort of big media angle.

And as you say, any company who’s willing to sponsor you is going to need a media angle. so yeah, it’s, it’s quite a difficult one to get sponsorship. I would say for anyone who is trying to go out there and do some crazy adventure is probably, yeah, I agree. I think it is. However, however, however, there are, it depends on your competency and what you’re doing.

You know, like how you want to record it. There’s so many amazing expeditions [00:26:00] that are still happening from people who are genuinely pushing boundaries, doing really bold, exciting stuff, still getting sponsored for it because they’re not doing the same as everyone else. Yeah. I think on my last podcast, we spoke about Ross Edgley, who had just swam around Great Britain.

Which is just nuts. And, you know, as you say, if you can think it, then you can probably do it. Yeah. So to a large degree, there is, I think there’s a, certainly a degree of, creativity that people would need if they want to do something. but again, it comes down to what trips do you want to do? My cycle was, and is, as you know, one of the cheapest means of transport.

And I think it’s one of the most demanding and fulfilling ones. So it comes down to what you want to do. And I certainly, I was. Just writing about this or going through the [00:27:00] edits. And one of the things I was saying was just be honest with yourself about the type of trip you want to go on and don’t try and fulfill someone else’s aspirations or expectations.

You know, if you, if you want to go cycle touring, then if you want to do 50 miles a day, do 50 miles a day. If you want to do 150 do it, I don’t, I don’t care. And it doesn’t actually matter. because Mark Beaumont will be faster than you. And that’s great. So you’re not trying to beat Mark Beaumont. And if you all are going to beat Mark Beaumont, then go for it.

It’s if you have full credit, if you can, but, you know, you say you can do 150 miles is great, but he can do 250. So who cares? You’re trying to, you know, you’re trying to do it for your own reasons. I still think this is someone was asking, I did an interview recently. And they were asking about advice and I was like, just be honest with why you’re going on this trip.

Like, it’s the [00:28:00] hardest thing to get your head around. But I think as soon as you can get that right in your own head about why you’re doing it, then it makes everything a lot easier, you know? And you also don’t need to tell anyone. You don’t need to tell the world I’m doing it to satisfy my ego, give myself a CV boost.

Well, because I’m trying to prove a point or get over mental health issue, whatever it is, get it right in your own head. And then you’ll have the freedom to make the decisions you want. I, I, I, again, I remember the first time I broke a hundred miles in a day. I was really, really chuffed. But again, no one cares.

No, but it’s still great. It’s a good little thing for yourself, but yeah, I remember. Yeah. And, you know, cause I was sort of hitting 70, 80 N you know, as you do it, your. Energy levels build up and you can go further and further each day. And then when I broke a hundred miles, I’m like, yes, thank God. I think it was like on 19 day 19 and I was like, sweet.

Okay. But yeah, as you [00:29:00] say, no one really knows and then you’re like both on me, but it’s no little cares, but you care. And sometimes that’s enough. And then after that, you know, so many times there were so many opportunities where I could have stopped. I, in America, I remember stopping at a cafe and this woman and her husband started chatting to me because, you know, I have a British accent and.

I was wearing Lycra in the middle of the Midwest in the middle of this, right? Where in the Midwest? I think we’re talking like Ohio or Indiana. Yeah. And I remember at the time she was like, Oh, you know, if you, Oh, actually I really apologize for my American accent. I won’t even attempt, I won’t even attempt it.

But, she was saying. If you would like to come and watch my kids recital tonight, you know, we’re very happy for you to come along. [00:30:00] And I remember at the time thinking, nah, I’m all right, but actually looking back, I wish I had gone. And that’s the thing is all these small interactions you have along the way are actually what makes the day and.

Everything about your trip. More interesting. It’s not cycling. Cycling is just the means to get from a to B. And it’s a very nice way of transporting yourself around the world, but it’s the interactions with the locals, which will be the lasting memories you have. I have, I always find, did you find that?

Yeah. To a large extent, I did, you know, the, I. I split the trip pretty much in two. And I, I was I’ve written, I’ve actually written the book on just, just the first half of the trip, but it’s because there was a different mindset and also understanding, [00:31:00] the, the reason we reasons for the trip, but it’s still, what was your mindset for it?

your first part, you said you had two different mindsets. The first part. So the first one was London, Singapore. So Europe and Asia, I think the, it’s different because that was about leaving consciously, leaving home, and making the decision to not fulfill the expectations that was sort of placed upon you as a.

You know, relatively, mature person who’s left a job and you know, what you should be doing at a particular stage of your life. so I think that was an important phase to go through. And then it was about understanding what cycle travel was like, you know, to be alone. You know, I’ve called the, this isn’t meant to be a self promotion thing.

I’ve called the book of rolling stone because I’m a huge Bob Dylan fan. And there’s, you [00:32:00] know, I don’t really know the song, but it’s that, how, how does it feel to you on your own home as a rolling stone and it’s, it’s that principle is always, it’s the same thing. It’s like, I just wanted to understand what solo travel was like.

You know, I’d read so many bloody books about, you know, Paddy Lee from , you know, they’ve all done these great things. They’re always by themselves. And I just did not. Have any understanding of what that was really like, and I’ve done some cool expeditions over the years. I still was like, what about the solo ventures?

What is it about them and what is it about deserts? And I was sort of fascinated by these two things. So just wanted to go off exploring and understand what bike travel was like. And, you know, I’d read friends, books about them in the weird countries, with weird people and. Interacting with people in a way.

And somehow surviving, I was like, how did they survive? How did they [00:33:00] get food and water and phone signal and communicate with people? How do you communicate with someone in the middle of China? When you don’t speak the language, like all of these questions, I just could not get my head around. It just seems a very, very, yeah.

Authentic way of traveling. And I was sort of obsessed by this idea of authenticity. So that’s why, that’s why I sort of wanted to go on it and probably a bit of escapism about not wanting to be bracketed about what I should be doing. I think the other bit of that phase of the trip was like real sort of like prove to yourself, you know, go through Siberia or winter type of stuff.

I think there was a bit of, okay, if we’re going to do this cycling thing, then make it really, really hard. And then, then you can understand the cycling thing. Once you’ve seen the extreme, you can then wind yourself back in. And I pushed it about as far as I think I could have actually. I really don’t think I actually could have [00:34:00] survived mentally as much as physically, much more than I did by myself.

And then that took me then Singapore and your. I slightly recalibrated my mind. I, the back end of Southeast Asia, I sort of realized why I’d go on a trip and what I was lacking. And I saw four or five friends in Southeast Asia. They’re living out there and I was like, what am I doing by myself? I don’t, I basically, I, as wonderful as it is to be by yourself in a foreign country.

I just. I felt much closer for anything to my own home when I was 10,000 miles away. So that’s why it changed. And then you reasonably my art. Why do you continue across Australia? New Zealand and America, because I sort of, the mindset was different. Like that second half was okay is still 10,000 miles, but it was, it was fun.

I enjoyed it. I enjoyed encounters. I had a lot of. [00:35:00] Banter and humor with a lot of people. I embraced every detour and, you know, I still rode really long miles and pretty quick, but I loved meeting different people and laughing with people in the Midwest, people in the middle of an Australian desert, watching the cricket with Kiwis, whatever the hell it was.

It would just, I really miss that sort of human interaction, I think in terms of, in terms of your questions about individuals, like it really mattered. I will say the language barrier. I always find this quite difficult. in Russia, especially when you’re up in Siberia, did you struggle? I struggled a lot more in China to be honest.

I found, I found China very, very mentally draining. Kazakhstan was. Funny. I found it funny other than winter winter was, was a challenge, but I still think the people, because I was by myself in a [00:36:00] desert, they have a very, very strong nomadic culture and character in Kazakhstan. So I was constantly and consistently stopped by locals giving me.

completely extraordinary variety things and money and water and random Apple juices and sausages, and just like random take two and things like that, just like random things. And everyone was kind and happy to see me and smiled and wanted a selfie all the time. And I specifically say selfie because it’s the difference I had with China.

And I then went to China, went through XinJing for a month, which was. I think pretty much close to the worst month of I can remember in my life. And, and then the rest of China was beautiful, inspiring, impressive, fascinating all the time. Very, very stressful. There was no time to [00:37:00] relax or stop or process.

There was no sort of time off. I would stop at every restaurant I go to just to get my bowl of noodles or something. And I just felt like I just sat in the book. I was like, Fish in a fish bowl. I felt like a zoo animal, you know, with, a lot of people looking at you constantly and walking up and not taking a selfie.

We just walking up and taking a photo, of my face and from about a metre away. and it happened, you know, and it’s funny and it is funny talking about it. Now I’d be sat in the restaurant and I would have. Queues, if not, no, not queues or crowds and people walk up to me, not asking, not asking for a selfie or having one with you, just walking up and going bang photo in your face and laughing and walking away.

It’s funny. Other than that, other than when it happened. And that happens every single day, every single [00:38:00] rest stop for months. And I couldn’t communicate with people properly. And I just, I think, wanted someone to laugh with basically, and be like, this is ridiculous. I want a mate alongside me to be like for fuck sake.

What are we doing with our lives? And instead, I just had my own thoughts to be like, what am I doing with my life? And I’ve found it quite difficult, actually. I I cause a couple of years ago we were in Tajikistan and all the cyclists come through from China into Tajikistan or Tajikistan into China. And they said China was difficult.

I especially, in certain areas was very, very challenging. You know, I think where you were saying in, in one place, you, you can’t get off the side of the road. You can’t actually go into the village without a sort of policemen telling you to get back on the road [00:39:00] and. Don’t go. And I think it’s sort of a very contentious issue at the moment, but back here, was it the same last year?

yeah, so that’s, that’s Xinjang, which is Northwest China. which, yeah, it’s, it’s a really. It’s a really contentious part of the world. It’s somewhere I’m really not fond of at all. Don’t speak about with any fondness. Pretty much. I almost added to that. I feel slightly saddened about my own bitterness and I’m typically towards aspects of China because it was an amazing country in many ways, but Xinjang, I.

I’m very happy to critise. So I think it’s pretty awful to be quite honest. yeah, I mean, from a personal point of view, I was held by police every single day, about four or five times a day [00:40:00] for a month. I was camping under motorway bridges cause they can’t let you come outside of the barbed wire from the motorways.

It was just rubbish. The police would confiscate my phone, delete photos from my phone arbitrarily, not just from Xinjang, but like arbitrarily delete photos. you’d have facial recognition, fingerprint scanners, every 20 kilometers. It was really bad and just constantly interviewed or forced to stay in hotels.

And I slightly knew what I was getting myself in for. I was. Anticipating it to an extent, but I think experiencing that and being the wrong side of that is very, very different to reading about in advance. And I became quite resentful about the situation. I also think that regardless of my own experiences, And this has gone down a slightly [00:41:00] more cynical line of interviewing now, but regardless of my own experiences, I, I do think that imprisoning over a million people because of their religious beliefs, it’s quite hard to justify.

Yeah. And you’ve got the book about this trip coming out. actually probably by the time this podcast goes live, it will be available to buy. I will be available at a very few shops, but it’s definitely made avaialble on Amazon. well, I’ll, I’ll put the link below, say people can buy it if, after listening to this podcast, That’s very kind.

no, I actually don’t think the, I don’t feel the trip was finished until I’d been able to write about it. it’ll honestly, I almost felt the same with the seven summits, so that took me 10 years to write that. I just feel it’s the most important way [00:42:00] to reflect condensed one’s thoughts? I, I think I th I think they’re always interesting because to me, I find when I put them out, it’s not interesting to me, but I’m always interested in other people’s adventures and seeing what they did and how they did it differently.

So for one per four, you know, one, it’s not that interesting, but I think to others, it can be very interesting. Well, a couple of very good friends are fellow adventury folk and cyclists and things like that. And, I was lucky to get some very good, people, I respected endorsements for the book, but also others who I’ve read that book.

It’s about this trip. And I think they are interested in how I basically portrayed his story because. You know, they’ve gone on not dissimilar adventure, but it’s written about it in a very different way to what I would put [00:43:00] in writers, but they would just focus on different things. So, whereas I would. I focused on the human interactions and those are the two most important things really were writing about the human interactions in a funny, interesting experiences.

And that’s the sort of travelogue aspect of this is, you know, if you read it, I want a reader to understand something more about a part of the world that I went through. The, I certainly had no idea about and. And I want them to learn in that regard because that’s what I would want to know. And there’s also the, introspective, reflective side of it, of why one goes on these trips about soda travel, what it means to be by yourself.

which again, I know other people that wouldn’t give a hoot about when they write, but they would be very, very good at describing the exact cultural significance is of a particular incident, which I. Do to an extent, but I can’t write in that way [00:44:00] as much. Whereas I find it easier to understand the, the why’s in the house and, and that sort of aspect.

So, you know, I, that’s why I like reading friends, books. I’ve done trips because I’m not okay. I want to get in your head. And what have you prioritized about your trip? Which someone else might not, who were they. well, I mean, what, in terms of endorsements? Well, Robin hambury Tenison was wanted a great adventure over years.

Ranulph Fiennes, Mark Beaumont did, which was great. Berlin cargo, who’s one of my favorite writers. You know, so there’s been, there’s a few, Chrissy Wellington did, but that’s totally different. She’s an Ironman athlete, but I think she’s one of the coolest people in history. So there’s, there’s a great selection and it’s, it’s very humbling, but, I’d say it’s more about, I wanted to write a book that.

They’re in an adventurey [00:45:00] world that people would look at and be like, okay, that’s something different. That’s interesting. And it provides a perspective that other people might not have done. which is, I guess we can really hope for. Oh, well, go check out a rolling stone on Amazon. It’s on Amazon.

Are you going to write a book at some point, John? No. I say I’ve actually started, doing a. I’m doing a podcast. So I find it more interesting. You’re a very, very good photographer to be fair. Oh, well, thank you. so I, my plan is to do a photograph book of the white silk road as we called it, which was attempting to ski all the way to central Asia and Afghanistan.

But, it turned into something a bit different in the end, which, No skiing and just sort of immersing yourself into this [00:46:00] insane adventure really of cause have you ever been to Tajikistan and no, I didn’t in the end. I mean, places like that and Krgzstan sort of, so. Wild and so hot and know how to describe it.

it’s just an adventurous paradise. It’s just so isolated. As you say, there’s no phone signal you’re very much left to your own accord and then mixing that in with sort of Uzbekistan and Iran and Turkmenistan. So it was a really interesting trip, but do you have a guide in Iran because he timed that very well.

If we’re to go before now, basically. Well, we were on the border. About to cross into Iran. We were in Turkey at the border when Trump announced the end to the Iranian deal. And so we were going through Iran as Boris Johnson was foreign secretary at the time, [00:47:00] we’ll be like, Oh my God, what is he going to say is what is he going to say?

luckily he said, you know, we, we approve of the Iranian deal. So I was like, okay, I think we’re safe being Brits now, but. I we, how do we say we managed to get a way that. We were guided without having a guide. I probably, I probably can’t put this on the podcast, but we ha we claimed to have a guide and we paid a guide, but he never turned up.

Yeah. Perfect. And so, and that actually made all the difference because. On our trip. A lot of it was how do we find the most isolated place in the middle of nowhere that we can camp, where we can sort of just enjoy. And I think if you had someone there, who’d be like, no, no, you’re not allowed to do this.

You’re not allowed to do [00:48:00] that. You have to go and stay in this hotel, which is heavily overpriced. I think at that point you would just be like, Oh, this is just shit. So, and that’s the thing with this trip is it’s very difficult to come up with an angle of how, of what it was really. I think, anyway, it’s very difficult to, because it’s two guys who went out to go and ski and every country from.

Switzerland to Afghanistan and to sort of try and break down these ideas of what people had to Afghanistan and Iran, which were usually very portrayed, very negatively in the media. And actually Iran was an incredible place. And, you know, we managed to go skiing and one of them in one of the resorts and ski toward for seven hours to ski down for two minutes, which was great fun.

as you say, climbing up mountains to ski in some of [00:49:00] the worst snow I’ve ever experienced, but we went so late, so it was no surprise, but as you say, it’s a. You have to have a sort of reason and an angle. And at the moment, I don’t really have that to sort of tell it, to tell a good story. And as soon as I find it, then I can tell the sort of story, but.

I guess it also depends what your aims are for what you produce. Yeah, because I, as I say, I, I attempted to what’s the word vlog while I was doing it and sort of try and tell the story to a camera rather than my camera phone. And I realized sometimes I, I don’t come across as very, I I’m usually a really quite happy person and quite smiley, but as soon as I camera gets in front of my face, my face goes, And I, yeah, I suddenly become super serious and everything’s, everyone’s like, Oh my God, you look so [00:50:00] grumpy.

Why are you? Like, why so miserable? You’re like, no, it’s really happy. It was the greatest thing. Yeah. That’s tough. Tough balance. Isn’t that a problem with TV stuff. That’s why the really good presenters managed to somehow do it instantaneously and authentically, which is not easy. This is the part of the show where we ask the same five questions to everyone each week.

And the first one is on your trips. What’s the one bizarre thing that you crave or miss

ice cream and really good coffee. Proper strong, good coffee. Yeah. Good coffee. I actually gave up on instant coffee on my cycle. It demoralized me. I was at an essence, good stuff. It just makes me more unhappy. Yeah. Did you know it, [00:51:00] on your trips have the sort of, you know, grabbed the coffees, you know, extra luggage on, on the cycle trip?

I had extra luggage. I actually didn’t on that one, but I always had herbal tea. That was every night I would sit outside of the cup of tea and I was always happy. Yeah. Say that’s, that’s one of the guilty pleasures I always find as well. what is your favourite adventure book?

what were the ones? I mean, Bear Grylls, the first one. It’s not my favourite adventure book. It was, it certainly got me started. I think Jon Krakauer is a great adventure, right. I wrote a re-read, into wild actually a few months ago, which was really enjoyable. And I haven’t read it for 10 years. I re-read Rory Stewart, but a place in between.

[00:52:00] when I got back from the cycle of loved that. I mean, if I aye. I I, if I can count things that Lord of the rings and Peter pan is adventure books, I’ll put them in my higher adventure category. Yeah. I think Lord of the rings is a great adventure. Yeah. That I think, a lot of inspiration from Lord of the rings, especially in New Zealand.

I mean that really? Yeah. I agree. When you, when you go out there, it’s just. Unbelievable really? I think had a proper adventurous spirit to be fair. Yeah. I would say as adventurous go, they probably had a pretty Epic one as well. did you have an inspirational figure growing up? Was there someone you looked up to?

I mean, my parents are probably the biggest factors in my outlook on life. So I think probably like all [00:53:00] children, I looked up to them. I certainly, as a. Boy, I would look up to my dad an enormous amount. I think they certainly shaped my view on the world and gave me the freedom to pursue these adventures.

So, you know, they, they would be up there, I think, in terms of people, I didn’t know. I think the Shackleton’s masteries Nelson, you know, I think those, those three were sort of always. Present in some way, it will. All three of them had a sort of disregard for what convention was and they just sort of persevered and led their men very well.

Let’s see if one of these are in your next question. favorite quote, they did have some great quotes Shackleton. he always, yeah, he always put his men first shot within three feet, which I liked. [00:54:00] What’d he say, live the dead lion. I, I would go with that, but I actually know favorite quotes. I always, so I always had, a book of quotes with me on expeditions.

There was a couple that always stood out. It was things like Jim Bridwell saying thousands. The enemy of success was a small one. There was another nice one, which I always liked about the battle between, A stream and a rock and the stream always wins through shirts through perseverance rather than sheer strength.

I always liked that, that idea. and actually I’ve got, is it the one on, on my way, websites it’s an Ian Fleming quote says always and never say no to adventure though. You’ll live a very dull life or along those lines. And I think those are nice. I also, I always had, if I always on [00:55:00] every diary I’ve ever written, it’s pretty much the first thing I write the if poem.

My, I think my dad forced my brothers and sisters, to learn that when they were about five and six,

a lot of people listening are always keen to go on these grand adventures. What’s the one thing you would recommend to get them started?

it’s not even an advice question. Is it recommend up? I always tease the idealistic side of me says, you know, follow your passion, follow your hearts because that’s the right thing to do. Which is to an extent true. I, I sort of would always encourage people to just have the confidence to pursue what they think is the right plan and not follow convention about what people say they should be doing.

I think that’s really important. And I [00:56:00] think that was the most important decisions I’ve made have probably been when I’ve. Personally done it, or whether I’ve been encouraged to pursue an instinctive idea I had, that was outside of the norm. And I think that’s been the most fulfilling parts I’ve ever taken.

Okay. And I suppose everyone is wondering after COVID what is next? Okay. What is this world? John don’t know what this world is post COVID. I don’t know. I, I never know. I had no plans to do my cycle trip until about six months a year before it. And I, at the moment I am have very, very little spare time to finish the book I have.

That’s coming out in a month. I will work another one after that about a totally different subject. And I will, I at the moment, I’m pretty happy. Where I am. I don’t feel any great need to go on any big trips, [00:57:00] but I have no idea what will happen in the future. No. I think if you had asked me a year ago, when I got back, what are you going to do?

I don’t think we expected to be in lock down for six months. So I sort of felt content to sort of be in the UK for a bit of time. Yeah, I’m the same. I, I love this country very much. I missed it when I was away. And right now I’m very happy in my own little UK bubble. Do you always appreciate it when you come back?

Yeah, well, there’s not, well I quoted at the end of the book, so I, you know, you only know of any travel when you come and having to old you old pillow. And there’s a bit of that. There’s something reassuring about coming back to the UK, certainly, but that’s why it was nice to be in something like New Zealand to Australia.

There’s there’s elements of, of the UK and you go, okay, cool. There’s a bit of home, which is nice. [00:58:00] but yeah, no, I just, I quite happy getting back and laughing, a British banter, and Ricky Gervais been an idiot, and I quite miss that, to be honest and watching the cricket. And the premier league, on, on our travels.

I remember when the football world cup was on. I used to watch it in the most bizarre places, I think, in, on a ship in the Caspian sea. And like everyone else was sort of doing their thing, but at then a sport I really miss when I travel. So do I, so I, yeah. And what you, I always find a weird and wonderful way of watching it, but yeah, I dunno.

I think, I think the, that whole cycle, and to an extent locked down as well, but it’s all part of the same narrative, which is, which is slightly about perspective and reprioritizing. And I think my priorities are different now to what they were two years ago, which is probably a stage of life thing.

It’s probably a assocaited [00:59:00] from travel and being abroad and yeah. Yeah. Well, Geordie, thank you so much for coming on the show. Go check out his book, a rolling stone and thank you again. Hi, it’s been an absolute pleasure. Lovely to chat. Thank you. Slept on the floor in the bathroom and literally work up the next morning, pulled myself up onto the sink, looked at myself in the mirror and thought, this is not healthy.

It’s not the direction your life should be going. And I kind of went into my desk, looked around, I don’t want to be these people. I don’t want to be the guy. He doesn’t see his wife. It’s I, they want to be the person. You never ends up with someone and they wanted my life to be just stuck in this office for another 30 years.

EP.003: Jenny Tough

JENNY TOUGH (ADVENTURER & WRITER)

Jenny Tough is an adventure traveller originally from Canada. She enjoys writing about her solo mountain expeditions and tales of world travel as a solo female. When she’s not exploring the mountains of the world, she lives in Scotland, and occasionally wherever she parks her adventure van On this week’s podcast, we talk about her solo mountain expeditions around the world from the very first in Kyrgyzstan. We speak about her inspiring women into Adventure and tales of world travel as a solo female adventurer.

Jenny’s Website

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Transcript of our Conversation

Jenny Tough Interview

[00:00:00] Jenny Tough Interview: and he goes, you know, I actually you’re right. Okay. I think it’s possible for someone to run across Kyrgyzstan, but not you. And I just, I’ll never forget the way that he did that. And it was just clearly based on the way that I looked, you know, he didn’t know anything about me. He didn’t know my skills.

He didn’t know how many hours I put into mountains in my life. To this point. He didn’t know my grit. He just knew what I looked like. Which is a woman.

Hey, how’s it going, Jenny? Good to have you on the show. And, thank you for coming on all the way from Canada. You’re in quarantine at the moment. I am in quarantine, just got back from Scotland. Very nice. Very nice. Well, I have to say I was really impressed with some of the stuff you’ve done over the [00:01:00] last couple of years.

How, how did this sort of love for adventure and running? Come about? so I grew up in the Canadian Rockies and, you know, I never, I always was into travel. That was always my biggest passion. And I was also into running and that was just kind of another, these two completely different passions that I had.

And then when I left home, after I finished school and started traveling the world, I, you know, I was kind of immune to homesickness and I still am, but I miss mountains. It was just one thing that whenever I’m in the mountains, wherever they are in the world, even if they’re country that I didn’t even know previously existed, I just feel at home, I feel that comfortable, peaceful thing that I think most people feel when they’re in their actual home.

So, it just kind of all came out of this love of mountains. Then I realized, like I combine my love of endurance sport and travel and putting those two things together. It was just like the thing that made my heart sing. And so that’s what I’ve pursued over the last 15 years of adventure. All [00:02:00] right.

Well, good. Let’s see, you’ve been doing this 15 years. I guess so. Yeah, I was, when I finished the university, I went back home briefly and I mean, I lasted like a month and spent everything that I had, which wasn’t a lot on a touring bicycle and cycled up to the Yukon. And that was my first, really big adventure at the time.

I I’d never cycled. Like I’ve never rode a bike aside from like a little kid bike or whatever. So I didn’t know how to ride a bike and that’s not a problem you can learn pretty quickly. They say it’s like riding a bike, but I mean, I didn’t know how to. Like, I didn’t know. There were tubes inside of the tires.

Like that was how, like my bike knowledge was just really, really pathetic. so it was a bit of a, I don’t think it was a smart place to start a venture to go into the Canadian wilderness was something you don’t know how to fix, but was that a bright bike or a mountain bike? So it is quite similar geometry to a road bike and a steel frame Canadian made.

I love to, I still have to have that bike. Yeah, it’s, it’s [00:03:00] actually funny enough, exactly the same, how I started in adventure was to buy a touring bike and then cycle across America. Wow. And as you say, I’ve never sort of gone more than sort of 10 miles in one day and then did very little training and then it was like, right.

Okay. I’m 70 miles, New York to Princeton. Oh my gosh. I honestly think it’s the best way to start. Like it’s stupid and you’re gonna like hurt yourself quite a lot, but. 21 at the time. So, you know, you can take the pain, just go for it. Yeah. And then changing a tire. I hadn’t changed one for probably 15 years from when I was sort of tours.

Right. Okay. How do I do this again?

And I was there for like an hour, just sort of trying to break it and trying to do this. As you say now probably takes you a minute or two. It depends on the tire [00:04:00] road. Tires can take me a little while, but yeah, hopefully a minute or two. Yeah. And so the six or the mountain race around the world, how did that idea sort of start about and what sort of drove you to do it?

It was never meant to happen. I, I came across, like I just was looking for an adventure in mountains. I was really craving mountains. I mean, I, I love Scotland and, I really loved living there, but I was really missing the big, big mountains. And I spend a lot of time daydreaming at maps. That’s just one of my guilty pleasures throughout the day when I should be working.

I look at that and I came across the TN sham of Kyrgyzstan. And I was looking at images of them. And you, you ever had that moment where like your heart stops and you know that your life isn’t complete until you go to that actual place. And that was my reaction to the TN chance. So I decided I would go there.

and somehow in that process, I really can’t remember how, because I’m sure there was wine [00:05:00] involved. I decided, you know, cycling across them would just be too fast. I would miss it. So I should slow down and maybe just run across. and I would run on support because I’ve always believed in unsupported challenges.

I think you’re more immersed in the culture and the community. We can do it that way. no one had ever done that. No one had ever crossed carriers down on foot in recorded history. I mean, I’m sure lots of people have, but I mean, running in this way had never been done, which was so exciting to me because it seems like there are no worlds first left and I couldn’t believe there was this entire country that just seemed.

Like no one had done it. I should’ve taken way more time to contemplate why no one did it, but I just, you know, obviously was so stoked and went ahead planning this and figuring out how to do it. And then I went out and did it, and it was by far the hardest thing I’d ever done in my life. so it was, the recovery afterwards was, was brutal.

Like I had no idea how to recover from something that intense. so it was months and months after I’d done that. World’s first. That was meant to be the hardest thing I’d ever done in my life. And then. You know, who knows what [00:06:00] was next? I started looking back on it and started realizing that was actually the most alive I’ve ever been.

It was the best thing I ever did. The whole process of it from planning, having to figure out a route to actually doing it and living out there, was by far the best thing I’d ever did. And I wanted to do it again. And so again, wine was involved and then we got to blame wine for almost all the ideas that I come up with.

I decided I would do this. I actually made a list of all the mountain ranges I wanted to run across. And then there’s actually more mountain ranges in the world than you realize. So I had this huge list, so I thought I need a theme. So I’ll just pick one on every continent and then it’s a thing. And then there’s only six and it’s not that bad.

And, and so that’s how the challenge was born. And a few months later, I went to Africa to do the mountains. Oh, wow. and so your, the run before, did you, were you a big runner or had, did you train hard for it or was it very much a get up and go. Yeah. Running has been a really significant part of my life since I was a [00:07:00] teenager.

it started from a really negative place when I was 15 or 16. I started running just because I absolutely hated my body. I think a lot of teenage girls go through that, where, what you see in media and magazines. I mean, now I know that that’s all Photoshop, but at the time you look at that and you go, well, my body doesn’t look anything like that.

And I’m being told on meant to look like that. So I would run just to punish myself and I hated it came from a really negative place. But the more I ran, the better I got and the other benefits, the mental health benefits, the not looking at my body, like it was an object that had to look like these magazines, but rather looking at my body as something that could take me further away on adventures and trails.

Cause I was still outdoors-y and I just loved being in the mountains. then running started to develop to be something that was just really important to me and something that I actually loves and I did on purpose. so, so running was always a really big part of my life. So when I went to go run across the TN Shaun, I was, I was pretty competent.

You know, I’ve been doing it for a long time and, yeah, [00:08:00] I was pretty fit at the time. I didn’t specifically train so much cause it’s impossible to train for. It’s possible to have a real life and train for. Something on that level where you’re going to be running for 10 hours a day with a backpack.

Like, you know, you can’t hold down a real life and do that. Yeah. I think in my run, I trained in London at the time where I was working and I was training on tarmac, raids and pavements. And then once I got out to the sort of Mt. Elgon in Kenya, You know, it was dirt roads, which were bumpy and uneven and suddenly this sort of really easy run, which had been training on going down very lovely pave rights suddenly became completely different from what I’d been training.

And you can’t, you can’t really train for that other than try and build up your cardiovascular fitness. Yeah, definitely not. If you live in London, I think that’s really [00:09:00] difficult in cities to have access, to, to mimic something like that. I mean, don’t, you guys have one Hill or something like that, which I think I, I walked up over the weekend in about two minutes.

I wouldn’t quite class as a, you know, a big Hill. Yeah. There’s no altitude zone. Unfortunately not. I’d say, once again, so in terms of kurgastan, where did you fly into? so I flew into Bishkek, the Capitol, and that’s not a very high altitude, I think it’s 1200. so I, but I mean, still coming from the UK to 1200.

And if you’re about to do something really ridiculously hard, that’s going to take you up to 4,500. You need to take it pretty slow. So I spent a couple of days in beach Keck. I, the only thing I had to do cause I on this adventure, I didn’t do the sense, but on this adventure, I did [00:10:00] take most of my kit with me.

So the only thing I had to buy was the gas councilors that you can’t fly with. Each truck has a mountaineering office cause they do have some 7,000 or so. That’s basically, I mean, when I was in Kyrgyzstan, that was the majority of the adventure tourism industry was just. The mountaineers that would come to plant flags on summits.

So, so I went to the mountaineering office to buy my gas canisters, and, and the guy there was like, what’s your holiday fun? What are you doing in Kyrgyzstan? So I told them like, I’m just going to run across the country. It’s going to be a thousand kilometers going to be great, got a backpack. And, and this guy, I mean, till my dying day, I’m going to remember this conversation.

He just looking up and down. He went, no, no, this can’t be done. So I said, well, no, you’re wrong. I mean, unfortunately for him, the only thing I had to do that day was adjust to altitude. So like I had time, so I was like, no, I gotta be done, buddy. Let me show you. And he had a map on the wall and I kinda like do on the map for him.

My route that [00:11:00] I designed, I had spent so much time designing because there wasn’t a route. and he followed along and he went out, you know what, actually, that is a good route. and he goes, you know, I actually you’re right. Okay. I think it’s possible for someone to run across Kyrgyzstan, but not you.

And I just, I’ll never forget the way that he did that. And it was just clearly based on the way that I looked, you know, he didn’t know anything about me. He didn’t know my skills. He didn’t know how many hours I’ve put into mountains in my life. To this point. He didn’t know my grit. He just knew what I looked like, which is a woman.

And. Yeah, I was so determined. I mean, he fueled so much of that run. Just that one conversation with this guy just doubting me just because of the way that I looked. So that was my, that was my start and curious check and chatting to him. That’s good. Motivation. When times are tough, I’m going to show him

no matter what happens. I am going to make it.

[00:12:00] Good. I’d say from Bishkek UN it’s probably over to Kara. Cool.

And did you starting around Kara? Cool. I had a taxi dropped me off. The fair bit East of Kericho, like, I didn’t want to get too close to the borders just cause I didn’t have border permits. I read a lot about corrupt guards and I was really like, nervous about that kind of stuff at the time. so yeah, I had a taxi driver just take me down the road, like really far East of Kericho and then I told them to let me off.

Cause I knew I could get up, river Valley. He was just like, Whoa. You want to get out of the taxi? Like, did I say something wrong? Like you can’t be here. Like, there’s nothing here. It’s just the wilderness. I’m like, Hey, I hear and gave him the money and left. And he was just like, Oh my God. W was that by any chance, the a world’s worst raid in Asia.

It felt that way at the time. I didn’t know if it made a [00:13:00] list. Does it, is it on a list? It’s a raid, which goes up to . and it’s, it’s about TA I think it’s about 10 or 20 kilometers and it’s just horrendous. I assumed it was disused until I saw a Hunka come around the corner, literally on like some 45 degrees South.

And I was like, I mean, the drivers here are ballsy. Like I wouldn’t take my all wheel drive on this under any circumstances when we drive up in our car and we got stuck at the top because it was pouring rain and I mean, it’s horrendous, right? Yeah. There’s some I, so I went back to hear Sam two years later to do a mountain biking race, and yeah, there, I can certainly attest that.

The Rose, they’re just something else. Like they just haven’t been touched since the Soviets left. It seems like there’s a lot of infrastructure in the cities, but, [00:14:00] but yeah, in the wilderness, there were a lot of things that I just thought were trails until, Latta comes around the corner and you just can’t believe anyone’s driving there.

And one thing is because you are sort of traveling over the mountain ranges. Food and water. How did you manage to gather that? Because I imagine you are covering between 30 and 60 kilometers each day. yeah, that’s what I try to average. And so you’re, you’re quite committed. I mean, the stretches I use, it can kind of figure out that to be on a fast backing setup, something that’s light enough for me to carry.

for me personally, five days is kind of the maximum that I can pack food for and still be able to move and do out my backpack. and that point you’re really committed. Like nothing can go wrong because if you’re out there for an extra day, that’s a hungry, hungry day. so I do dehydrated food on a stove.

I find that it’s lighter. And also if you’re going into mountains, I just think it’s way safer to take a stove. You know, you have to be able to [00:15:00] warm yourself up or di or clean water or something like that. So, yeah, so I would take dehydrated foods and you know, it’s not like now knowing what I know, cause I’ve been doing this for a few years.

It’s certainly not a healthy thing to do to your body, to be in mode for that long. Like you can’t, or I can’t get enough calories in a day. It’s just, it can’t be done like running 10 hours, and eating that much. It’s just something that I’ve never been able to manage. So it’s, it’s definitely one of the hardest things to manage in the run, but you know, it’s one of the most basic things.

Yeah. No, of course. And in terms of the people you met along the way, especially up in the mountain ranges are probably pretty Nomatic. people who live up there and yurts, did they invite you in, did they, Yeah. I mean, aside from the mountains themselves, that was what called my [00:16:00] heart. it was the nomads.

I really wanted to meet them. You know, I’ve always believed that I have the heart of a nomad and I was so curious about this culture. and they, they were unanimously lovely. I couldn’t believe that, you know, I feel so alone. I’d be out in the wilderness just completely by myself. Wouldn’t have used my voice more than a day, and not seeing anyone, but if I stopped for any reason, like the top of my bag, or put on some sunscreen or whatever, These nomads have just come out of the woodwork.

And I wouldn’t realize that they all knew where I was and they had their eyes on me the whole time, seeing that suddenly someone would show up on horseback and say like, why did you stop? We saw you were running for hours. Are you okay? Do you need something? Come to the air? We’ll get you some tea. And, and yeah, I was invited into so many homes and it was, it was such a humbling experience to have so many people who have objectively so little, but are just so willing to share and make sure that I’m okay.

That I’m warm enough, that I’m fed and. yeah, really some of the loveliest people I think on this planet. Yeah. I, I agree. Co kurgastan was, definitely one of my [00:17:00] favorites when I went across central. and so you went from Kara. Cool. And where did you finish up and then, Oh, in, Oh gosh. Good. That is a very, very long way.

I that’s what. Was it a thousand. And how long did that take you? How many days?

That’s a, what? A few days out with,

I think there were 22 days of running. What was the, what was the, the, Vic, what was the, Croce use that got you? I dunno. I’ll never know. I mean, it could also have been water. I mean, a lot of the water, like I always do filter my way, but some of the water is quite heavily contaminated out there. So, gosh, I mean, it could have been anything, I mean, that was, and that was really [00:18:00] towards the end.

Like I was really close to Oshkosh when it happened. And so I think at that point, like your body’s strength to defend itself is just so low. You know, you just put yourself through so much. You’re so exhausted in such a deep way that. No, your defenses are just gone. So wasn’t nice. And how did it feel finishing, finishing an arch?

I just never, I mean, there were so many points that I thought I would never make it, you know, and no one thought I couldn’t do it. I mean, that guy that I met in Bishkek, who said, not by you, he, he wasn’t a singular case. Like a lot of people believe that. And even people at home, like I remember leaving and people saying things to me, like.

You know what, no matter what happens, it’ll still be a story. And me going, like, what does that mean? so, you know, there was a lot of leaf that I couldn’t do it well, myself and externally. So when I did do it, I mean, there was just so much, you know, looking back on that 16 year old girl and started running because she hated her body to suddenly [00:19:00] being someone that is the only person alive who’s ever run across the country.

Like that’s cool. And it was really overwhelming. I remember running through the Gates and just like starting to cry. But the thing was, you know, with everyone believing that I couldn’t do it. And the curious people being lovely about the fact that I couldn’t do it. and those last few kilometers coming into Oshkosh cars kept on stopping to try and give me lift because I said I was going to OSS, which was five kilometers away now.

And they’d be like, Oh, it’s too far. You’ll never be able to run there, get in the car. And I’m like, just kind like that. so I was going to have in this moment running into the city and you know, when you do things like this, there’s no finish line. It’s not like finishing the marathon with someone gives you chocolate milk and a free t-shirt and stuff like you just you’re alone on the city streets.

Yeah, exactly. so. That kind of happened. But then at the same time, there were just all these cars and I wasn’t used to cities and I was sort of like in a city with pavement and all these people like trying to give me a lift and taxis on kissing. And I was just like here a [00:20:00] guy. So it was kind of, yeah, it was funny moment, but it was, it was big.

Like, I was really, really proud of myself for probably the like probably the first time on that level. And what was the sort of, highlight, do you feel of that trip? Was there a sort of main that stuck out where you were like, wow, that was incredible. I mean, there were so many, and there, there were probably some every day and then there was probably also little lights every day.

probably about halfway through. just before halfway through, I’d had a real incident where I’d made a huge navigational mistake and that had led to me being kind of caught in some landslides and, and a really challenging, climb that I, I obviously shouldn’t have been doing by myself on roped.

And it was really scary. And I knew that I knew that I was way beyond the line of acceptable risk. That one slip would cost me in my life. so it was like this prolonged ethics near death experience. And so then when I finished that and I did throughout that say, [00:21:00] well, I crossed the line across the line that I accept, which means I can’t do this.

And everyone is right. I can’t do this and going home. So I I’d said the words out loud that I was quitting. As soon as I survived this, I was just going to, I think I was three days away from the next highway, but like, in those three days I would get to the highway and I would just go home. Like I would just can it, so I had quit, but obviously had to kept, keep moving.

Cause I’m in the middle of the wilderness with only a couple of days worth of food. and then after that happens, I got invited into a year by some nomads. And like, I was really upset. I was in a really fragile place cause I knew died and the family took me in and I was kind of part of their family for a night.

Even if you don’t speak the same language, it’s amazing how much he can connect with people. And, they just totally revived. Like they didn’t know that I’ve had a horrible day. They didn’t know that I’d been like crying all afternoon. They just saw that I was outside and took me in. and it just totally revived me.

And then the next day was this really beautiful day. And I remember having a really nice sunset and a [00:22:00] really nice counsel and just like everything fell into place. And like, after your worst day, you always have your best day, don’t you. And so I just remember being really grounded that day and just realizing like the school concept of being this world’s first is just crap.

Like it’s just not important. Like it absolutely doesn’t matter. A thousand people could run across Kyrgyzstan and we’ll come back with a thousand different stories. And that’s what’s valuable is, is this experience that I’m having. So after that, I think everything, all my motivation behind this whole project just completely changed that it was just about, you know, enjoying this experience and connecting with this place and these people.

And so that was, that was definitely my biggest, mindset change. And that’s carried through that’s now how I approached the mountains. I think we have a real culture of first and fastest and adventure. You have to be the first person to do something the fastest or it’s not valuable. And I just, I hate that.

Like, I just think it’s bullshit. I think. Yeah, adventures all these records around the world, which people are sort of doing that becoming harder and harder. And actually a lot of the time you’re [00:23:00] doing these sort of adventures for your brain. And it’s not really because we were discussing about cycling and how, you know, the first time he, we were discussing about going across America and he was.

Like, you know, I’m never going to be the fastest to go. It will be. There’s plenty of people far quicker, and there’s a lot of people, but I was sort of saying that the first time I ever crossed a hundred miles in a day, I was like, yes. You know, get in. but no, no one cares. Yeah. I know. That’s, I mean, that’s something that I always say to myself when I’m out there, I’m like, no one cares.

Like this is important to only, you. So this has to be valuable to you. And this has to be something that’s honest to you because like you’re right. No one cares. This is such a privileged thing that we get to do. Like it’s beyond privilege to go struggle on purpose to intentionally go have a really bad holiday, you know, that’s essentially what it is.

so yeah, you just got to [00:24:00] remind yourself like all of that stuff. It’s not important. And when you get to those really hard moments out there, that’s not the stuff that’s going to get you through thinking, like, what about the headline or whatever, like, you’ve got to have way better reasons. Was there a point where you sort of did sort of 60 or 50 kilometers in a day or a hundred kilometers in a day and you were like, right.

Get in. This is amazing. I’ve just clocked over a hundred and then for a brief period. And then you’re like, yeah. I mean, that’s just me. Yeah, I think I remember having that in the Atlas mountains. Cause mine was, could be a lot higher out there because it was just, just easier to rain, just faster. And I remember having these big mileage days and thinking like, I’m shit hot right now.

Like this is going well. And then you just kind of look around yourself, you know? Like, I mean, I’m like, again, I’m talking to a camera, like I’m alone. It doesn’t matter. And if I said that to like the next passer-by, I see some Berber coming down the trail. There’ll be like, [00:25:00] what did you decide and why does anyone care?

How did your, race or your trip in the Atlas mountains compare with kurgastan? so I arrived there feeling really confident because I now knew what it took to run across a mountain range. the Atlas are, there are a lot shorter, like altitude wise, You know, there were a lot of things that were just going to be easier.

No, the places I was going, weren’t frequented by visitors, but at least in the local does have a huge tourism industry. So at least in the cities that I would use for logistics, there was like people who looked like me and there was a bit more of a culture towards that. So I went into it thinking this is going to be way easier.

And I think the mountains always punished confidence. so they, they were completely different, but they were, they were really hard in different ways. probably that was myself. I had a really big fall in the beginning and cut [00:26:00] my hip open really quite badly. definitely did need stitches, but I didn’t get them.

I just stuck, taped it close and kept going. So I had had an injury and I was getting infected and it was really swollen. So I was, I was limping as it was. but the biggest problem in Morocco was of course the cultural difference. that being a solo woman doing mountain sports, just, it just doesn’t exist.

And. There were quite a lot of men trying to stop me and never in a, in a threatening and violent way, just in a, in a paternal way. Like they just really didn’t accept, or they’d never seen women doing solo sports. So for them, they could only see danger. They could only see that I was going to die and they don’t want me to die.

So it was. It was quite complicated to be, you know, really angry at these people that are trying to stop me from doing my expedition and doing something that I know and something that I’m competent about. but knowing that they’re not doing it from, from a bad place, they’re doing it from a place of, they want [00:27:00] me to be okay.

And they just do not believe that I could go into the mountains and be okay. So there was, there was a huge culture clash. That kind of overrode the whole, you know, like I’ve always said with these things running is by far the easy part. It’s the part that everyone thinks is so incredible while you ran so far, but like I’ve always run running is awesome.

I’m good at it. Right. Left. Right. Left stop. When you’re tired, like it’s easy. So running was just the holiday between like all of these logistics, all these, cultural, issues to figure out like all the other stuff. That’s, what’s hard. I’m the sort of day to day running. It’s sort of the day-to-day running is quite mundane.

What sort of kept you occupied throughout the day? Because although the scenery is insane in some of these countries, as you say, when you’re running morning till evening, your sort of mind wonders, what sort of kept you entertained in your mind? Did you listen to music? [00:28:00] Podcasts? Yeah. I mean, sometimes there’s so many hours that account account for all of these that I have no idea where I was like, you know, you get to the end of the day and you want to write in your diary what happened today?

And you go, gosh, I have no idea. Like I literally don’t know. And that’s partly why I bring a camera’s too, because like, I won’t remember. Cause I just have gone to like the zone and now I’ve just like my brain’s wherever it is. And so there’s a lot of that. I do listen to music and podcasts. I think music’s really fascinating to manipulate your mood.

You know, if you need mojo, there’s a playlist for that. If you need to calm down, because you’re scared, there’s a playlist for that. Like when you’re alone, you have to find a way to manage your mindsets because you don’t have a partner. Who’s going to say. This isn’t, this isn’t working. You need to come back to this.

so you have to be able to do that and you won’t always have the capability to do that. You know, when you’re feeling really negative, it’s so hard to like solo, pull yourself out of [00:29:00] that negative black hole that you’re going down. So you have to have the discipline and say, I need help. Well, the only help available is my headphones.

So, so music’s really fascinating in that way to me to manipulate my moods, podcasts, I probably got into, That was maybe three quarters of the way through Kyrgyzstan. When I realized, like I haven’t had a conversation in English, the only language I’m confident in, in a really long time. And I think I forget how to do it.

And I think I’m losing my mind. And I found that listening to podcast is two people. Having a conversation was enough to bring me back to reality and like, remember what my life is normally like and the conversations I normally have. Yeah. so the podcasts are great for that. Just like injecting something.

Cause as you say, the running is mundane. All you think about all day long is in navigation and finding enough water. Yeah. And that’s all you have to do. That’s literally you have to do is you have to keep moving in the same direction. Like your to-do list is very small. So yeah. Oh, [00:30:00] wow. and so you’ve done the Atlas you’ve done.

the, what’s the one in kg it’s done. Like then that’s the one. And so how many more have you got to go? One, just one. yeah, I finished number five, just over a month ago. So yeah, just, just Europe left actually. Sure. And which, European range are you? It was meant to be the caucuses and I was meant to do them this spring, which obviously spring 2020 didn’t happen.

So, it wasn’t always meant to be the caucuses. I’m kind of now at a place where it’s more important to me to finish this challenge. I mean, this challenge is. Been in my life for four years and my God four years. So it like, it’s just it’s time for me to, to finish it. So yeah, it was always going to be the Caucasus, whether or not I’m going to be able to go to Georgia and [00:31:00] Azerbaijan by next summer.

but there are other options within Europe. So at this point, I’m not going to make that call until probably may I’ll call it literally last minute, because. A lot of things stay the same. Like what I need to pack. Like I’m already prepared the Caucasus expedition. So if it goes ahead, know I’ve already got my route and stuff like that.

So,

yeah. And there’s an autonomous region. That’s on the coast on the West. I think it’s called that caveat or something like that. That’s how it looks in English. The route that I’ve made, I’m not going to cross into Russia, just because the logistics of going back and forth over borders and all the autonomous regions.

I mean, that’s your biggest problem with the caucuses is all the autonomous regions are like these little red dots on the map. Going, if you go here, your insurance is void and your car comes, you won’t come get you. If you were getting your passport wrong. Amber in Georgia, there was a area in the mountains where again, we can go and we sort of walked up and the army were like, [00:32:00] nah, this is as far as you’re allowed.

Yeah. So, and that’s going to contribute a lot of extra miles, like a lot, because I’m not gonna be able to go straight across. I’m going to have to like go around these barriers. And so. it’s, it’s really interesting, but it’s also, really challenging. So I’ve kind of got a meandering route across Georgia and Georgia is I think the first half, like it’s almost kind of exactly a Georgia and then as a by John, yeah, but out to basically out to the coast.

So it’ll be a nice, and so what’s your hope is to do that once cave, it sort of settles down and you’re allowed to go. I I’d rather finish the challenge. So if COVID doesn’t allow, then I could do the generic outside. I love the Balkans I could do here, knees, or, you know, I’ve got plan ABC kind of, kind of ready.

So as long as any form of going outside is allowed next June, July, I will [00:33:00] be out running a mountain range on the European continent, which one is the I’ll be announcing that probably like. Oh, that’d be amazing. And, and people can follow. And how do people follow your sort of adventure? I do share them on social media as I go along, kind of post data just for safety reasons.

I don’t think it’s good to like live stream. Where you are all by yourself with all your fantasy stuff. but yeah, I do do share everything along on social media, any Tufts. And what other sort of adventures have you done other than, because you did you do this mountain biking, races, you do these mountain biking races around the world to sort of.

And started bike packing. And then that led to, to sign up for ultra distance racing, [00:34:00] which isn’t my mindset. Like I’m not a race person. I’m not competitive. I’m like, I’m one of those people that people get medals for participation. Like if people like me who are just like, everyone’s doing a great job today, like that’s how I race.

Like I just don’t belong in a race environment, but, but I started doing them and what I found was it was amazing that there were people just like me. Which is something I probably never found people who are weird the way that I am, people who want to travel the way that I travel, who experienced the outdoors, the way that I do it with that combination of like being thrilled by the adventure of seeing this place, but also wanting to like push their bodies to its limits and find out what their womens are.

so I started racing through that, and did see some success and saw some failures and yeah, it’s, it’s been amazing. That’s certainly something that I’m really missing right now. Is that race community. Yeah. So it was very difficult to sort of try and convince people to come and do these sort of expeditions in trips with you when they have a choice between.

[00:35:00] Going to a lovely beach holiday where they can sit and relax or go on a, a thousand mile run across the, Atlas mountains. It’s not everyone thinks that’s a holiday. Then I joined the weird club. Hey,

so there’s a part of the show where we asked the same five questions to every guest. And so, get them up. So we, we always are, so we always ask them on your trips. What’s the one thing you crave or miss from home? you know, it usually takes a while for me to create remiss. I mean, Coffee machine. It comes up a lot as something that I miss.

and then when things start to get really bad, [00:36:00] like really bad, then I start to miss the couch and how comfortable it is. did you, what is your favorite adventure book? The living mountain by Nan shepherd, thinks she’s such a great writer, but. There’s actually, there’s a lot in the adventure literature industry that is just kind of one narrative of the ex-military British white male.

And there’s a lot of terminology about conquering mountains and stuff like that. and then separates approach is I think very much the female that approach of the mountain will be here, was here before you and will be here after you. And you’re a blip and just experiencing the beauty of the landscape and not worrying about.

Finding flags at the top. And I just really love the way that she writes. And it’s a book that it’s an older book and it’s about it’s all in the Cairngorms, which is a part of the world that is really close to my heart. So that’s a hundred percent my favorite. [00:37:00] Very nice. Okay. So did you, have an inspirational figure growing up?

I didn’t and I think that has, and a lot of what I’ve done now, cause I, I was always adventuring. I just wasn’t telling anyone about it. And the switch from me who is a total introvert to finally start, you know, filming myself and putting things on social media. That was, it doesn’t come naturally to me, but I found it was really important because I never had anyone who looked like me when I was growing up.

And I say growing up, I mean up until like. Really recently, I never had anyone in the outdoor industry that I could look to and think that person’s like me and I’m inspired by them. So, that’s why I think it’s important to bring different voices into the industry and to, bring different narratives, different body types, different human types.

so yeah, I, I didn’t have one. I think that was a quote from someone you said. He was [00:38:00] on a very similar, line of thoughts. And he said, when he grew up, he didn’t really have an inspirational figure. Say he just looks to inspire himself and looks to make sure that he’s the figure that he wants to be.

That’s beautiful. and I think it was Matthew McConaughey always said he’s inspirational figure was him five years from now. And so he’d always look five years ahead and say, Oh, you know, who is this, figure I’m going to be. And then he would try and emulate that figure. And then five years from now, it’ll always be him from five years.

Actually. That sounds really intriguing. do you have a favorite quote or motivational quote that sort of. Keeps you going or inspires you. [00:39:00] So I have a lot of mantras. I’m really big, big on mantras. one of mine is like one minus don’t be shit. one of mine is toughen up. but the, one of the quotes that I really love that I keep coming back to and something that I always kind of need at the start is always do what you are afraid to do.

it’s Waldo Emerson. Cool. I think, I haven’t bad. Always gives me that courage. Cause at the start line, you always just look at it and go like suddenly the mountains get way bigger. Don’t they? And you just go on, what have I done? I shouldn’t be here. I can’t do this. and then I remind myself like that fear is a good, good sign.

You need that. Yeah.

And I, and I imagine a lot of people listening are always keen to go on these sort of grand adventures. what would you recommend for them to get them started? [00:40:00] I would say make, I’m a really big around to make a list. there are reasons why you’re not out there right now. So make a list of what they are, you know, it could be money, time skills, whatever it is, make a list of all the reasons that step things that stand in your way between you and your adventure.

And then just start taking the things off the list. If you don’t have the skills, we’ll go get the skills like, you know, So I think if you just break it down on that level and just show yourself these are the barriers, and this is how, and then make a plan for how you’re going to act as all of them.

And the second thing I would say is you’re tougher than you think you can totally do this. If fear is one of the problems. let me just tell you that you don’t need that. You’re fine.

And, I know we, we said this earlier, but just for anyone who was wasn’t listening, how can people find you and follow your adventures for the future? on social media, it’s Jenny [00:41:00] tough, real name and, same websites. Didn’t help. How many times have people sort of said, is that your real name? All the time.

And I get really self-conscious that people think it’s my Instagram name, but I’m not cool enough to have an Instagram name. And if I did, I’m not sure that’s the one I would give myself. but yeah, no, I got lucky with that one real name. And finally, I suppose what people are wondering, what is next?

What is next is I will finish this challenge to run across a mountain range and every continent. So there’s just one chapter left and that’s my, that’s my biggest focus. Amazing. And just on a, sort of more, a personal, did you ever try horses, milking kurgastan yes. I didn’t get a choice on it. The nomads were very clear that it was very important to my health that I drank a lot of Comis.

Yeah. I think one of the year, it didn’t let me leave without a leader of it. Like he literally like dumped out my water bottle and children up. He was like, it’s really good [00:42:00] for you. yeah. Did you have it? I tried the host milk cheese, and that was this. That was, more than I could bear the more advanced level, but the calmness is not as.

I mean, it’s, it’s still an acquired taste, but I think you went to advanced by starting with the cheese. Yeah. After the trying to achieve, which was, you know, back of the three, like this is awful. I was like, no, I, I can, I can give horses milk and miss as much as they claimed to be high in vitamin C, I was like, not happening.

Yeah, I am just understand your trepidation with that, Jenny. Thank you so much for coming on today and I look forward to following your adventure in the European mountain range, whichever one they may be. Yeah. [00:43:00] And, again, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thanks again. Thank you. Well, the sh chef or the bottom of the first step got incredibly out.

The TCIC hit somebody twice before, but very out to second was throwing photos of his family off the mountain and saying he was going to die and it was quiet and he didn’t, he didn’t want the oxygen. We gave them. he refused it. He wanted to eat.

EP.002: James Gwinnett

James Gwinnett (Endurance Runner)

Breaking his neck playing rugby and told he could never play the sport he loved again. James went down a dark path after three years he turned his life around and is now competing in Ultra Marathons around the world. We talk about the highs and lows of Ultras. The reason for turning his life around. As well as his time on SAS Who Dares Wins in South America.

 

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Charlie Walker

Charlie Walker (Explorer & Author)

After finishing University, Charlie Walker set out on a different path. Cycling the World over four years reaching the furthest cape in each of Europe, Asia and Africa. We talk about the highs and lows of these Grand Adventures and times when failure has spurred him on. We speak about growing up in the countryside and how this way of life came to him at a late stage in life.

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Podcast Video

Transcript of Podcast

Interview with Charlie Walker

[00:00:00] Interview with Charlie Walker: And before I knew it, I was just stumbling through shin, deep snow, kind of lost pushing my bicycle. the sort of the sensation was just receding from my fingertips and my feet felt like a pair of ice blocks kind of slotted into the tops of my wellies. I felt like I was walking on the sort of stumps at my ankles and, I genuinely thought I was going to.

Johnny for the first time.

hello and welcome to the modern adventurer podcast. I’m John Horsfall. And thank you for taking the time out of your day to listen to the show. This podcast, we talk to explorers and adventurers from around the world who have made remarkable and daring journeys in [00:01:00] recent years from Everest climbers to polar explorers, world record holders, and many more.

We listen to the craziest stories from the expeditions and tragic losses and sacrifices they have made. My hope is that this podcast, sparks ideas and inspires you to go out and explore the world. My first guest has an incredible story to tell. He undertook a remarkable 43,000 mile bicycle ride around the world.

Covering the furthest keeps in each of Europe, Asia, and Africa. As well as the world’s first triathlon along the perceived Europe, Asia border, he’s a British Explorer and author. And I am delighted to introduce the show. Charlie Walker. Hi, I first heard about you probably when you were doing your [00:02:00] big cycling trip around the world.

Can you tell us a bit about that trip, how it sort of came about how did it start? What was the sort of beginnings of it? when I, the first summer after graduating from university, I, I booked a flight into Beijing and a flight out of in Mongolia and a little while, just to two months trip was going backpack essentially around China and Mongolia.

And when I, had booked the flights, I sort of thought after a little while, maybe it’d be more interesting to cycle from one to the other. I had done a sort of shorter cycling trip a year before in, in Nepal. And so I thought I’ll take my bike. it didn’t get off to the best start. So this is the summer of 2009 because, let me get this right.

About 10 days before [00:03:00] flying, I snapped one of my quadriceps. I didn’t terrorize clean snapped one of the four in my, Left leg, right. Like, sorry, sorry. I don’t entirely know, but there was alcohol involved sort of drunk. Someone probably knows, but I’ve never quite got to the bottom of it. so I, you know, kind of got to Beijing airport on one crutch.

And then on my first night in Beijing, I broke her wrist. Similar sort of acted in prey. I was I’m less. So now hopefully they’re more careful. Well, it will sensible maybe. anyway, so I, two weeks later finally sort of cut this cast off my wrist, bandaged up and started cycling and it was only two weeks to get from, there’s roughly a thousand miles sort of the second half across the Gobi desert.

And it was, it was pretty straightforward in the Gobi. There weren’t roads that were just kind of a bunch of tire tracks and trails, you know, sort of. Crisscrossing crossing away through the desert. and I didn’t really enjoy it at [00:04:00] all. To be honest, it was hard. So it was quite uncomfortable on my leg, hurt my wrist hurt.

But during that trip, I sort of saw the. The potential for bicycle travel. You know, I realized how it was incredibly cheap. It could get you really, really far a surprisingly nice rate. You know, you without really pushing yourself fat, hard, you can cover, you know, 60 miles a day, a hundred kilometers, and that’s.

You can do that in the morning. so that gives you the other half of every day in which to check out where you are or enjoy yourself or read or write or whatever it might be. so a few weeks after finishing that, I ended up driving a knackered old Mongol rally car back from Mongolia, sort of as a favor to a friend and went back to the UK.

Yeah. In two weeks, that was a real rush. but one night in a. Sort of Birch forest in Siberia, camped out with a little fire and some paint, stripping, Mongolian vodka. they got quite drunk and sort of. Came up with the idea of [00:05:00] this grand bicycle journey. and the idea was to cycle from home to home via the furthest point in each of Europe, Asia, and Africa.

And, but a year later I set off, it’s really actually, it’s kind of straightforward as that. I didn’t do great data planning or preparation. yeah, the amount of time I expected it’s take me. It was four years and the world changes a lot in four years. I mean, as it happened, the Arab spring happened about nine months after I left, which entirely changed the sort of geopolitics of, of, you know, well, yeah, just the bit that joins Europe, Asia, and Africa suddenly it was just completely changed.

so it’s pretty good. I didn’t get too bogged down with planning, but yeah, that, that, that was really it. And you know, the 1st of July, 2010, I started cycling and, and I was off. And what was the sort of furthest point because you left the UK, you went through Europe, you went, so the route in short was the three furthest points.

the first was North cap, which is the Northern most point of [00:06:00] Europe up in, the Norwegian Arctic tech. And to get there. It was quite straight forward, just up through Western Europe, through Sweden, the top of Norway. And there, the next point from there was Singapore, which was quite daunting, sort of turning my bike around at the top of Europe and thinking, right.

I got to get to the Southern most point of Asia. and that took, like, but 11 months, that leg, and that was down through Finland, Eastern Europe, Turkey, Iran. sadly, I had to fly over Pakistan. I couldn’t get a visa. India, Nepal, Tibet, South West China, and then Southeast Asia from there up to Mongolia.

Once again, through central Asia through the stones. through the middle East, back through Iran, Afghanistan, she, briefly in Turkish, sorry, Kurdish, Iraq, Turkey. And then down the East side of Africa to the bottom and up the West side and back home. [00:07:00] Nice. Yeah. Four years. Four. Yeah. In the end, I stopped for half year in Beijing, one winter to kind of earn a bit of money and, rest.

And I suppose with these sort of trips, you have your highs and your leaves. Tell us about some of the highs, the highs. I think the most idyllic part of that whole long journey was, when I got back to Mongolia, I bought a horse, a little Mungo pony for. Not very much 120 pounds or something. and he was tiny and useless and I actually went to, sort of check out some horses and I selected the horse I wanted, and it seemed like a good horse, right.

Sort of age, not too long in the tooth. a gelding. So you didn’t have his balls cut off. Wasn’t going to be too feisty. And so I went back to the Capitol to collect all my stuff, went back to take ownership of his horse. And it was just a completely different animal. [00:08:00] so I got, I got kind of done that.

so I didn’t rewrite a great deal. mostly it was just a pack horse, but I walked for two months, just through the grasslands and the forests at the top of Mongolia. And it was, it was just beautiful, you know, the w. Going for a long walk can be quite draining. I walked to Mongolia from China because I cycled it.

You know, the first time around this time, I hiked it from Beijing up to walking with a pack on your back. Particularly the Gobi, it was quite hard work and sort of wore me out. And then just the idea of walking without anything to wear you down and a horse to carry all the stuff and each night just making a fire and.

dog followed me for the second month. So I had a horse, a dog and me, and like make a little fire and the wolves would be howling, but had a fire. So I was safe. it was perfect. Yeah. And I could have, you know, felt like I could have been in any, any century. People are mad for, you know, the nomadic Mongol people living along the way were living more or less as their ancestors that lived for hundreds of years and were very friendly and welcoming.

And that way of life is completely different to us. [00:09:00] But yeah, there was. Plenty of common ground. And I just have a great time seeing the country getting to know the people that was, yeah, that was definitely a high, I didn’t feel any sort of rush. It was just a very nice paced, couple of months of walking 600 miles or something.

Do you, do you think you’ve always had these sort of big adventures in you from a young age? I mean, in terms of your, I wasn’t, I wasn’t, an especially sort of, Outgoing adventurous child. I grew up in a village. and so I was sort of in a small sense, outdoorsy, you know, we, I wasn’t a city kid by any means, but, yeah, we didn’t, we never went camping.

My family weren’t into outdoor pursuits at all. I tried to do Duke of Edinburgh at school and failed the bronze expedition when I was about 14. That was probably the last night I spent in a tent until I was 19 or 20. [00:10:00] so yeah, I, I, there was a big sort of hiatus where I would just have no interest already, but once, once, once I left school and started traveling a bit, then, you know, there’s sort of the bug bet.

It’s quite funny. Cause my sort of trip, like my memory of camping when I was younger. Was one sort of being down and there was sort of almost like a storm in the night and the metal poles like smashed me in the head and that’s my only memory growing up of like proper campaign. And then sort of when I got into it, I didn’t, I suppose you almost go with a sort of naive expectation.

You’re just like, yeah. Yeah, I’ll be fine. I’ll be great. Which is sort of like how I started as well. It’s just this almost naive. Yeah, let’s just see what happens take each day as it comes and work from there was that the sort of mentality you had pretty much. I mean, there’s a lot of hubris in how I sort of got into that big trip on the bicycle, for example, because I just, [00:11:00] I was sort of young and, Wanted to, there’s definitely some ego in it, which is pretty, it’s pretty much gone now.

Now I know my own true inaptitude, but back then, I kind of thought, you know, I wanted to make my Mark in the world or something go off and do some big grand dramatic, you know, chaotic adventure and kind of, you know, see what I was capable of. And I thought it’d be all exciting and, you know, romantic and.

Then very quickly, once it got going, I realized that much of this four year slog was going to be just day in, day out, schlepping along roads on bicycles and sleeping in sort of Woodlands on the fringes of, villages. and I was essentially, I kind of glorified itinerant hobo for. For years, without kind of friends or family, it’s a very unusual thing to do with your life.

yeah, I know. Yeah. It’s it’s usually sort of when you hit 21, [00:12:00] everyone’s like, right. So what’s next after university or, you know, look, what’s your big job. And suppose it takes, always takes people by surprise. When you say, Oh, I’m going to go and do this. Yeah. How did your family sort of take it? They were pretty young.

The standing, I mean, by the time I decided to do that, I, you know, I’ve been getting slightly more Intrepid each time or going off and doing something. I’ve got three siblings, which probably made it a bit easier on my parents as a third. So maybe it’s classic middle child, wanting to stand out. but no, there were, there were there.

Get it. Yeah. I knew that I wanted to, I wanted to be a writer and that I wasn’t just going off on, you know, on a, on a log. I was, I was wanting to travel and see and learn and experience things and that, and to kind of relate those things via written word later and yeah. With a blogger on the wave. and yeah, I think they kind of bought into it with some [00:13:00] trepidation.

Yeah. I think they, they always there. And of course, with these big trips, you have your ups, you will have your downs, but there are many that you can recount. Yeah. For the four and a half years. I mean the worst was probably about six months in. I found myself cycling up onto the Tibetan plateau. but it was mid January.

and so, I mean, when I left CashCo in China, in Jinjiang province, to start cycling kind of South across the Western tip of the tackler McCann, and then up into the mountains, it was minus 33. In, shin, Jang, I didn’t have anything, any specialists here really? I had a sort of a half decent sleep mag.

I’d sort of, you know, winter’s, he, Meghan I’ve picked up in Katmandu, but not up to that standard. And I had, [00:14:00] a big coat that was kind of too big or was it a cheap, fake, you know, rip off North face job, which was sort of. I mean, I, I was always gonna be warm during the day. but when you’re cycling, you actually kind of generate heat.

It was the night that it was a problem. And, and just for hands and feet during the days, I was just wearing a bunch of pairs of socks and Wellington boots. I don’t know why we need to boost the, not at all, you know, insulating as my feet got really, really cold and my hands with not good quality gloves.

I mean, I got fresh frostbitten in the end. but, just. Quite, I mean, I haven’t lost any of my fingers. but you know, I had these blisters that sort of came up and to them, you know, every day for about three weeks until I got off the plateau and they were just absolutely agony, you know, like the fingers were the tips of the fingers with dad, but yeah, I haven’t had to kind of thing off, they are more sensitive to cold [00:15:00] temperatures now and I get pins and needles more often, but, there was one particular sort of blizzard that I got sort of lost in.

And, and this road I’m following is I believe it’s now paved, but this is nine years ago. And it was really, really not here. It was, it was, it was, I think probably still is one of the most remote and least traveled roads in the world. the Western sort of gateway to Tibet. On a good day, there’d be a vehicle going one way or the other, but often there were two or three days with no vehicles at all.

And I wasn’t able to be out there either. Like I cut a hole in a Chinese military base fence and snuck in to get into Japan because I ended up permits to travel that you can’t travel independently down on a bicycle. so I was having to hide the whole time and I, you know, I couldn’t get enough food.

So my, in the months, six weeks that I was up there. my body weight dropped by 25%, which is okay. Quiet. maybe not in a good way. And then I’ve got this one particular visit. [00:16:00] I mean, there were a bunch, but this one was the worst. I got caught out in it. And the wind picked up really, really quickly until it was too strong, too fast in consider trying to put up my tent.

And this tent was a one man. Basic tent that was sort of job. You just play away and yeah, it was not. Yeah, it was not for season two, season 10. it wasn’t sturdy. It wasn’t like a geodesic dome or bubble or tunnel or any of this stuff. It was a really, it was a lightweight, it weighed less than a kilogram sort of thing that people use.

If they’re like walking the Appalachian trail in summer. Yeah. so I can get that out and the sky was white and the lamb was white and I’d lost, you know, visibility went way down and I couldn’t see, you know, 10 meters ahead, 20 meters ahead, perhaps. I lost the road or the track. and before I knew it, I was just stumbling through shin deep snow.

Kind of lost pushing my bicycle. the sort of sensation was just receding from my fingers. My feet felt [00:17:00] like a pair of ice blocks kind of slotted into the tops of my wellies. I felt like I was walking on the sort of stumps at my ankles and, I genuinely thought I was going to die for first time in my life.

You know, I didn’t have a phone. I, if I did it wouldn’t have worked. That was, who knows where the nearest person was. So, after your big trip, how, how do you think it sort of changed you? you’d go, you’d left the UK for four and a half years later. You returned, I mean then they’re the sort of monotony of day-to-day life would have been.

It is difficult. I would have thought. Yeah. I mean, it’s hard to give a sort of an exact science it’s that as opposed, because when I left, I was 22. When I came back, I was 27 and I’m sure we all change enormously in that sort of, you know, mid twenties period. but I certainly, [00:18:00] by the time I came back, I was much more.

I’m sold on the idea of doing these things, you know, for if possible, for a living. and I felt fairly, I suppose, emboldened having, I both learned my. Sort of limits as well as my capabilities. And I had so many times during that four year journey, I had come close to real disaster. You know, the, the sort of the near brushes were fairly countless, but at the same time, I developed a better sense of how to avoid things like that.

And I think my sort of survival instincts were much, much sharper than they had been before. So I felt. I suppose I was left with the self-confidence to be able to try much more sort of ambitious things. so I mean, the next journey that I did was the next sort of big journey, [00:19:00] started with a three month ski through a really remote area of.

Arctic Russia, sort of Siberia in, in winter, with even cold temperatures then in Tibet during that previous winter. And, yeah, going a month ago, time without seeing a person or a building, apart from the expedition partner I took with me, As yeah, the, the, that’s the main thing that changed. I felt able to sort of take things on and put in part of that confidence probably stems from the realization that, that sort of kindness and health, and this is the global default, pretty much wherever I went in the world people’s initial instinct was to help me or to look after me as opposed to take advantage of me or Rob me or whatever else.

So I, I overwhelmingly had incredibly positive experiences with people. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I know a lot of people listening, you know, who may be thinking of going on these big, big adventures. And [00:20:00] I imagine a lot of them are always terrified to go alone because you’re sort of one fifth of the five places people you surround.

And if those people aren’t sort of into these big trips and you deep down are, and you’re sort of craving this adventure, this sort of excitement in your life. I know a lot of people always put off by being alone. so I mean, Speaking from experience, you know, it is always the 99 cent to a good, it’s always the rare who, are the ones you hear about.

I always find, would you say that’s the same in your trips? I mean, absolutely. and you know, 1%. It’s much less than that even. and go, yeah. Traveling with someone is, is, is fantastic. You know, you have a, you have a friend, a companion, a confidence. You have someone to share the bad times as well as the goods, obviously.

[00:21:00] Yeah. But, going by oneself is, is a lot more formative. not just do you get approached more, are more bye people wherever you happen to be traveling to just being by yourself, you appear vulnerable. And that brings out the, the, you know, the kindness that good nature and people broadly speaking. but also you just, you have all that time in your head and you can’t default to, you know, comfortable, familiar company.

You’re forced to put yourself out there to try and sort of, integrate more into wherever you are. You pick up more language. and yet, like you said, there’s so few people who are trying to do any harm. I mean, They’re out there. And over the years I’ve been spat at and stoned and beaten and had guns pointed at me and knives held to my throat and these things can happen, but those are, you know, like a couple, a couple of dozen encounters out of tens [00:22:00] of thousands.

so they are absolutely not the, the rules that, the exception that proves the rule. Absolutely. and out of all this sort of countries, did you have a particular favorite? You sort of seem to spend a lot of time around sort of Mongolia, Mongolia. I love it’s. It’s so ripe for adventure. It’s it’s just a sort of mass wilderness, which yeah.

It’s the most sparsely populated country on earth. it’s. Big, and then Spain, France, and Germany combined, but they have just over 3 million people, roughly half of who live in the capsule and the country just has no fences. It’s boundless. So you boundaryless. So you can just go through desert and forest and step and mountain and you know, just this huge wilderness and you can just bro, wherever you want.

So that’s fantastic. I also love Iran. I spent. fair amount of time in Iran and it’s besides being genuinely the friendliest place I’ve ever been to. [00:23:00] it’s it’s I mean, you’ve been, yeah, it’s exhausting and overwhelming and wonderful. How. Often and how tirelessly people will throw their, their kindness of volume, you know, it’s, you can cross her on and not spend the night in a tent, not by design, just that’s what happens.

People are always trying to take you in and look after you. And it was just incredible. And then the history of the country is really interesting. And as well as the modern history, it’s, it’s a very, very, ancient, fascinating, and yet troubled place. So I really, really enjoyed, Tom and Ron, yeah, I always remember in sort of central Asia, they always sort of just say, Oh, come in, come in, come and have a cup of tea, come and do this.

And like, I think we’re on a Mount, our rats and Turkey. And we went up and sending this family, these sort of shepherds, but come on in, come on in and gave us foods eggs. I mean, we were not expecting it to, and he was just like, [00:24:00] why, why. Because it’s very difficult, especially I think in the UK, because it’s very sort of difficult, but I think it does happen.

I remember one of my trips up to Edinburgh cycling and people were genuinely incredibly friendly. Yeah. It happens here as well. It’s just broadly speaking in the UK. We live our lives slightly more sort of. Gated. Yeah. Yeah. We’re a bit more sectioned off and partitioned from one another. But if you, you know, if you’re wandering through the Highlands, for example, and you pass someone’s cottage and you stop to ask for water or they see you out the window, that’s a good chance.

They’ll ask what you’re up to or, or, you know, give you a food or want to spend the evening drinking whiskey with you. And you know, it, it it’s, it is human nature. It’s, people often say that we’re too egocentric and sort of. Cynical in, in the West, whenever that might be. And I already don’t think it’s the case.

I think it’s just the, the, the, if you look out the window now and. [00:25:00] Acton in West London and see, someone’s cycling past with panniers. You don’t know if they’ve come from China and on their way to Mexico, or if they just carry a lot on their commute, it’s kind of hard to tell. so there’s not the same sort of sense of cycling past a year.

It’s in, you know, in a, in a mountain Valley. Yeah, exactly. And you will see that this world first triathlon, across, well, the perceived border of Asia and Europe, what was the sort of mindset and what sort of inspired you to do this particular trip? The, the, the impetus for that trip was that the, I think spurious idea of a continental Viper in Europe and Asia, cause it, it doesn’t take a genius to look at a map and realize that Europe and Asia are one continent.

And, it doesn’t, it’s not a problem to have different [00:26:00] regions of a landmass given different. Names, you know, you can refer to the Indian subcontinent, but there’s this, there’s this particular gravity that is given to the respective ideas of European Asia by Europeans, really, frankly. And this goes back two and a half thousand years, like all their back to the ancient Greeks who thought that Asians were barbarians.

and that, that idea of the border in Europe and Asia is the, the birth of what is today, geographically. Consider the board at Bordeaux in Europe and Asia, but it it’s completely, you know, manmade and I mean, you often, it, it wouldn’t, or shouldn’t be problematic if it wasn’t used as a lazy trope often by people with an agenda, you know, you’ll hear someone who is trying to denigrate the concept of Asian people.

On the news or on question time or something, and they will refer lazy to Asian people. And what they mean by that [00:27:00] normally is some yeah. That they’re using that lazy sort of, wide ranging term. And really what they mean is, you know, problematic fundamentalist, extremist groups or something like that.

But how can you take referring to one person as an entire it’s lazy and it can be used, accidentally or maliciously, incorrectly or misleading me. I mean, Asia encompasses, you know, the Chikaka peninsula in far East Russia and Palestine and Japan and Sri Lanka. And. Lau and Georgia and, and, and Afghanistan and Pakistan, and just all these incredibly diverse places that have no single through line, no thread apart from the fact that European people consider them Asian or some European people who do.

And I always thought that was a, a sort of a problem. So the, the trip came. Fundamentally from that. But my [00:28:00] idea was to travel the length of this perceived divide, which is about, 5,000 miles and, ask people living along that border, what they thought of the border, if anything, or even if they were aware of it, you know, that if you cross this river, you’re crossing from Europe to Asia, or if you crossed this mountain watershed, you’re doing the same.

and my, my hope, my goal was to, you know, Finish this journey, which took eight months and by the end being a good position to put forward a sort of fairly convincing case, in a longer form than we have time to go into here for doing away with that idea. And just talking about Eurasia as one. Yeah.

concept, and you know, along the border. Yeah. These people either thought of it as a sort of a novelty or a joke or weren’t aware of it. So really that, yeah. It, the trip. So, so, sorry. Purpose, but it was also a fascinating journey along the way, you know, the, the remote sort of wastelands of, and former ghoulag towns of, of [00:29:00] Arctic Russia and the, the sort of tiny villages lost on the sweltering, the heart, step in Kazakhstan, it was a really diverse bunch of places.

This journey took us through. Yeah, it was great. skiing, kayaking, cycling. That was the three legs of the triathlon. And you did a line again. No, I did it with a, an American, sort of ski, Mountaineer, Kelly Moore, Gino, who I met in Pakistan when I was on that previous bicycle journey. She was also cycling across Asia the other direction.

yeah. So the two of us, just about didn’t kill each other for the, for the eight months of, one-on-one. Yeah. and so the sort of mindset did you try? Like, I suppose a lot of people have this idea that you just go and do it. Is that how it works or do you train. For it, I’m not a big one for training or preparation, [00:30:00] rarely.

I mean, for that journey, I, I don’t ski, I’m not only knows how to ski, but ski touring is really it’s ski track. It’s just walking on skis. You know, I, I have all the skills, it requires to walk to the South pole on skis, but then again, so. Anyone can walk, which I appreciate isn’t everyone, but then all sorts of people with different, you know, disabilities have got themselves to the South pole, for example.

But, it was, it was quite straightforward. Ski walk on skis and then kayak, paddling is very straightforward. You can’t really go wrong. And then, and then cycling and I’ve been riding a bike since I was. Three or something. so yeah, there was no, there was no real prep. I’m actually not, I’m not great at sort of elaborating on mindset.

It’s not something I’ve spent a huge amount of time sort of considering. I suppose I’ve always been of the persuasion that you throw yourself in something and figure it out as you go. And, but [00:31:00] that is perhaps my mindset. I am someone who’s willing to take risks and to adapt quickly along the way, but I don’t really have.

Brain techniques or visualization, you know, brain training, things like that. I’m maybe too, impatient for, for such things. Well, I suppose the sort of mindset it’s more on like, you know, when times get hard, I mean, sounds from your expeditions, you’ve done them, you’ve completed them. And probably from someone just sort of hearing about it may make it sound quite easier apart from your few sort of.

Hairy moments. I mean, has there been a time in the last sort of 10 years while doing this, where you’ve decided to do an expedition, you planned it? And it’s sort of just failed in its concept. You sort of, S sort of, yeah. Well, the, I perhaps mentioned two things the first week of that ski of an Arctic Russia.

we set off, [00:32:00] we haven’t yet got to our start line because the coast where we wanted to start before skiing South, Up into the rural mountains. the coast was 120 miles from the nearest town, which we took a train to, but there are no roads in or out of that town. This is the end of the line, 45 hours on a train from Moscow.

So we got to that town and the only way he got the coast was to ski. So we hadn’t even got to a start line. And after about four days, I had such, intensely bad blisters on my feet that I could. Basically not walk and we have to turn back and I sort of limped for, you know, three days or so back into a blizzard.

Finally got back to that town. and, and it was a week for, I could walk properly again, at which point we set off again. and I had sort of altered my boots and made them fit better and it was then going to be all right. And we managed to eventually get a lift from someone in a tank. To get to the coast, which was quicker.

so that was, you know, sort of a false start and a failure there. And then the lesson was, you know, obviously get your boots fitting and try these things out. And, and yeah, that served me right. And there are certain things that you sh you know, you are, you [00:33:00] should do to prepare, but the other was, last year in Papua New Guinea, I w I went with the goal to climb the three highest mountains in the country.

And the highest two are claimed semi-regularly as kind of a trail to the top. They’re not very high. They’re, you know, they’re sort of 4,300, 4,500 meters, but the third highest was this sort of basically unknown mountain. It didn’t really even have a name. and it’d been climbed once before I managed to find out by a team of, sweets, I think what Swedes and Danes, who had claimed it over three-week period with a huge party of sort of guides importers this kind of assault style.

Yeah, take on the mountain from the North side. And I turned up on the South side just with a backpack and some boots and sort of found some guys in the village and said, should we go? And yeah. Great. And after. Three or four days of walking. I was so beat up by the jungle, so covered in leach bites. So worn out, so washed out by the monsoon, and just cut and scratched ever.

And my [00:34:00] palms were covered in every time I slept, which I was doing all the time, every few minutes, I’d reach out and grab something and it was inevitably covenant thorn. So I was just completely ragged. and we got sort of, as far as we could go before, we’d have to start literally cutting a trail through the jungle.

You know, the footpath ran out at which point. With hindsight, thankfully, the, the kind of, couple of guys who I took with me said, right, well, any higher than here, I’d say we’re probably at, two days from the top. Any higher than here and the spirits don’t like us going there. So let’s go back by that point, I was thinking, well, I’m not just going to cut my way and get lost.

And they have cussing by myself. It would have taken me ages, AJ, wasn’t up to it. So that was, that was one sort of decided failure, you know, and I came, that was, that was the F I flown for 40 hours to get to PNG. I spent one night in a, in a. sort of guesthouse on arrival and then went straight to this village and started climbing this mountain.

And I was, you know, I was [00:35:00] pale, I’d broken my foot about six weeks, seven weeks earlier and 10 weeks earlier, perhaps, but I was, I was not in good shape asshole. And I was happy with hindsight to sort of write that off as a lesson and the other two moms and I got much easier. And then when it came to a bit later in that journey, much more intense, dense, remote.

Jungle. I was much better prepared than, than I would’ve been without that sort of, yeah. I think, learn learning through failure is always quite important. So this is the part of the show where we ask every guest the same five questions, quickfire, quickfire questions. mm. On your trip. What’s the most like bizarre thing that you like crave or miss while you’re on these expeditions around the world?

I can’t think of anything bizarre, but. chairs. Yeah. When, when you’re out in the wild, you spent so long sitting on your ass, on the floor, you know, eating with your head next to your feet, you know, and [00:36:00] maybe it’s a sign of age. I just, I just long for a stool or a chair. And it sounds the, because yeah, you’re out and there’s wonderful places and you know, no one’s gonna bring a chair.

but I, I. Particularly with the bicycle for years, I was just sitting in a tent or hunched over eating my dinner each night and my breakfast each morning. and, and I love the concept of a chair and a table. It’s incredibly vanilla is not very bizarre, but you know, on any of these given trips, if I could have some sort of magic weightless item that was inexhaustible, I wouldn’t take good red wine or chocolate or cheese or, or, or whatever.

I’d take a chair. yeah. What was your favorite adventure book? Right? I there’s a, travel rights called Redmond. O’Hanlon he’s a sort of Oxford, Don and an ornithologist, and he is the total antithesis of what we think of as the, kind of the, you know, Victorian [00:37:00] bearded Explorer, adventurer type, here’s this kind of bumbling.

Grey mutton chopped, you know, academic from the dreaming spires of Oxford who knows all about birds and is totally inept and out of shape and physically unable. But his books are the funniest things I’ve read while at the same time being fascinating, impressive journeys, in particular Congo journey.

it’s not, it’s not a great title in my opinion, but the book is fantastic. He goes in the nineties to. What is now the Republic of Congo, but back then was the Marxist Leninist people’s Republic of Congo. And he goes with some mad Congolese, zoologist in search of air. A crypto saw essentially like an congos Loch ness monster at some remote local Lake, deep, deep in the jungle.

And he just loses his mind throughout that journey slowly kind of goes mad. And it’s so funny. So Intrepid, and I, I love that. He’s not. The [00:38:00] archetypal, you know, explore it. I think it’s great. Did you have an inspirational figure growing up? I, I read it, I suppose, because I was here’s the first, Explorer I was introduced to or came across was Ronald fines.

He came to talk at my school when I was about. Eight. And I just remember this kind of mad man with no fingers talking about walking around some big, cold, icy place and thinking he was insane and funny and impressive. And so I suppose that was kind of my earliest memory of someone doing these sorts of, yeah.

I think rhino find is probably a big one greener. And what is like your favorite travel or motivational quote? Motivational quotes, Benedict Allen, once wrote, if you go with a map, all [00:39:00] you’ll come back with is a more detailed version of that same map, which in essence means, you know, just don’t.

Don’t bring your ideas to impose on a place you go as, as open-minded as possible, you will come back with so much more rather than going with your preconceived idea of someplace and trying to sort of mold it into what you already know. and I think that’s, that’s great. Also I’ve often just not had a map by, by lack of preparation and that’s been quite good.

My first trip, everyone thought I was mad because I just basically woke up each morning. It’s like right. West is that way. Yeah. That’s looks like a right wake up each morning and not want to cycle into the sun. So just go West, just go away. a lot of people listening are always keen to go on these big trips and grand adventures.

What’s the one thing you would recommend to get them started. I suppose start small. I mean, unless you, you have it, unless you [00:40:00] feel bold enough to just take on some massive journey, some big challenge, you don’t need to do that start small. And that might just be, you know, turning up to some weird and wonderful place and going for a long walk or, or, you know, it depends on everyone’s kind of, Scope of experience, but you know, it could just be going for a short hike and a camp, you know, around where you live or going via just doing something new really.

I don’t think people need to get to, I think a lot of people reads. Adventure books and travel books and get disheartened thinking where I can never go and do, you know, whatever these people are doing and that might or might not be true, but it’s also irrelevant. Yeah. There are a tiny proportion of people who do these sort of big, long.

Journeys. And they might or might not be in their right mind while they’re doing them. But, they’re all the same sort of things. All the same benefits that you can get from those journeys are also to be had just from doing [00:41:00] shorter. Yeah. I mean your trip or your triathlon. You’re not a triathlete. Are you.

Mm, no. And I mean, so as rewarding as going off on some long journey, I mean, this summer I’ve been to the Pete district a couple of times for a week, just in a tent, camping and climbing rock climbing and that’s, to me, that’s, you know, I, I get as much out of that as I do going for a six month bike ride.

It’s just doing what you can when you can. And, where can people find you? my, Instagram is probably where I most often post things that’s at CW explore, my website, cw.com. and I’ve written a couple of books, through sand and snow and on roads, the echo, which people can find on my website or Amazon Kindle, audible.

And as your trip. cycling the world. Yes. Those two books together make up that four year bicycle ride. Wow. [00:42:00] Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on and, as I’m sure everyone wondering what’s next. I I’m hoping to get back to Papua New Guinea, once the COVID situation allows, and to get sort of further and deeper into the, into the remote areas of jungle, probably in the West of the Highlands.

and, so yeah, watch this space and thanks very much, but I broke my neck playing the game seven. And a bit years ago. and as a result of that, I was told I couldn’t play the play the game any longer. And the result of that loss and that loss of routine discipline, loss of identity. I struggled with depression, that brought on alcoholism. [00:43:00]

The Modern Adventurer Podcast Trailer

The Modern Adventurer Podcast Trailer

Get ready to go and explore because Adventure Athlete John Horsfall is about to launch his brand new show, The Modern Adventurer Podcast. Listen to the sneak preview now.

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Adventure Retreat in The Lake District

ADVENTURE RETREAT IN THE LAKE DISTRICT

Teleshayakh Mosque, Tashkent, Uzbekistan
THE SILK ROAD GEM OF UZBEKISTAN

A Cultural feast of Islamic Architecture and History

Our journey exploring the Mosques of Uzbekistan started in the capital of Uzbekistan, Tashkent.

We were exploring the local markets, experimenting with the local cuisine, and opening our eyes to the jaw-dropping Islamic Architecture around the city.

Uzbekistan is a Central Asian nation and was part of the Soviet Republic. It’s known for its mosques, mausoleums and other sites linked to the Silk Road, the ancient trade route between China and the Mediterranean. Uzbekistan is an enchanting country that will give you a glimpse into the past.

 

Swimming the Amu Darya River at Sunset

The route we took was from Tashkent down to Samarkand, where we got to see the magnificent Registan; this was at the heart of the ancient city of Samarkand of the Timurid Empire.

Our journey continued to onto Bukhara. The city is rich in historical sites, with about 140 architectural monuments.

The thriving city used to serve as the capital of the Samanid Empire. There was plenty to see, and we gave ourselves enough time here as the old town was truly spectacular.

Uzbekistan

Khiva was the last of our stops on our adventure in Uzbekistan. We ensured our experiences were flexible so that we could adventure to different spots along the way.

Take detours out of main routes to explore off the beaten track monuments and meet locals who don’t see many tourists. Ziba gave a unique insight into Uzbekistan and left, wanting to go back.

 

Highlights

Visit the Registan in the early hours of the morning and watch the sunrise over the city up in the Mosque window.

Watch a Traditional Uzbek Concert.

Hast-Imam Square is the religious centre of Tashkent. The square is located in the old town. It appears near the tomb of one of the first Imam of Tashkent. The scientist, a scholar of the Koran, Hazrati Imam.

The Chorsu Bazaar – Under an impressive blue dome is this most significant market in Uzbekistan where daily life takes place—seeing mountains of spices, nuts and dried fruits.

Kaylan Minaret, also known as the Tower of Death. According to locals, criminals were executed and thrown off the top for centuries

Swimming the Amu Darya River at sunset

Other Adventures we’ve done

Cycling in the Alps, a Breathtaking Adventure

Cycling in the Alps, A Breathtaking Adventure

Lake Annecy, France
IT NEVER GETS EASIER YOU JUST GO FASTER

A Breathtaking Adventure Cycling in the heart of the European Alps

Why go cycling in the Alps? The Alps are an impressive mountain range stretching kilometres across Europe. Towering snow-capped peaks, high-altitude grassy plains, and superior valleys are the characteristic of the world’s best-known mountains. 

Of all the destinations in the world for riding a bike, cycling in the Alps is as gruelling and rewarding as it sounds. The adventure crossed back and forth between countries as we did the climbs up and over each pass.

Switzerland, France and Italy all offer their unique spots along with the climbs and descents. Our route took us to mountain towns that were the perfect place to get some spectacular riding while avoiding the usual tourist hotspots.

 

Cycling in the Alps Ziba Adventures Swiss
Lake Geneva, Switzerland

The mountain passes and climbs are set up as a natural climber’s paradise when the snow has melted—rustic chic chalet towns and staying in remote places away from the crowds.

With the mountains comes unpredictable weather and we had to be cautious at times. Lapping in the glorious summer sun turned very quickly to thunderstorms as we passed from Switzerland back into France.

The early morning cycles, watching the sunrise over the icy peaks of the Alps were a joy—the feeling of the fresh, crisp air on one’s face and the wind blowing through my hair.

The Alps

Our journey ended in Italy coming over the Petit st Bernard Pass. The descent down the mountain valley and into Aosta.

Cycling in the Alps offers so much more than spectacular vistas. It means every day is going on a new adventure. An adventure that will stay with you long after the bike has been put away.

 

Highlights

We were waking up to seeing Mont Blanc just above you as you get ready for the start of the day.

Jumping into the refreshing Lake Annecy after a tough climb over the pass.

Indulging in the mountain cuisine throughout the day

The mountain views throughout the whole trip

Other Adventures we’ve done

  • Exploring the Mosques of Uzbekistan
  • An Epic Tour of the Wakhan Corridor
  • The Hidden Gem of Ski Touring in Iran

An Adrenaline-Fuelled Horseback Safari Kenya

A Horseback Safari in Kenya

Lakipia, Kenya
The only person I envy is the man who has not yet been to Africa – for he has so much to look forward to

An ADRENALINE-FUELLED adventure in the heart of Kenya's wilderness

If you want an action-packed experience, which involves riding out on the horses from dusk to dawn,  horseback safari in Kenya is it.

Kenya had it all, the majestic plains of rainbow sunsets and beautiful savannahs. This was the perfect location for this adventure.

Our Guide and Masai spotter gave us unparalleled opportunities to see the game. For instance, his unique knowledge led us to secluded spots to spy on cheetahs, elephants, lions, giraffes and rhinos. As they roamed the Kenyan plains.

The first part of the safari was riding across the Masai Mara for ten days. We were staying in the most unique and secluded spots on the plain.  Giving us unforgettable moments across the way.

Up close with a lion on our morning ride

We were always ready for the excitement of the game. This meant dropping everything to ride out to find cheetahs and her cubs hiding in the tall grasslands.

Moments of magic seemed to happen with each ride. Galloping with the giraffes as they chanter along the open wilderness. To up close and personal with a lion as she rested in the bush.

The community is what keeps Kenya as the majesty of the animal kingdom. We were treated throughout by the Masai community. Giving us a tour of their village and a Masai evening dance.

Finishing the first of the safaris in the Mara we left happy. Safe in the knowledge we were contributing to a beautiful conservancy, as well as the local Masai community. We had seen unbelievable game throughout, and some moments which will stay with the group for a lifetime.

masai-mara-tribal-dance
A Masai Wedding dance at sunset

The second part of the riding safari took place in the stunning Laikipia. Another ten-day adventure over beautiful terrain watching the game as we ventured through.

Camping on the escarpment our camp had the stunning sculpted peaks surrounding Mount Kenya on the horizon. We woke up with the crimson sunrise associated with Africa each morning.

We were riding through the rugged bush encountering herds of Elephants roaming majestically through the terrain and Cheetahs hunting for Thomson Gazelle.

Masai Mara, Kenya

The two safaris gave a unique insight into the different areas around Kenya. The various communities that protect the wildlife and landscape.

We left having a better understanding of the sustainability of the areas and how they can be protected for the future generations. But we left believing that we had witnessed something special over the three weeks on this Horseback Safari.

Highlights 

 

We were waking up to Hippos playing in the water outside our tent.

Getting dress up to join in with the Masai Wedding and dance late into the night with the tribe.

Dropping everything in the evenings to watch the Lions hunt together and catch their prey.

Able to get up close and personal with the horses, we were ready to jump on any opportunity that arose—spontaneous, unscripted adventure.

We watched Kenya’s most iconic species in their habitat and contributed to their vital conservation.

Other Adventures we’ve done

  • Exploring the Mosques of Uzbekistan
  • An Epic Tour of the Wakhan Corridor
  • The Hidden Gem of Ski Touring in Iran

Patrouille des Glaciers

Patrouille des Glaciers

Rosablanche, Switzerland
TOURING THE BEAUTIFUL SWISS ALPS

Push yourself to the limit with the toughest mountaineering race on earth.

The Patrouille des Glaciers (PDG) is a ski mountaineering race organised every two years by the Swiss Armed Forces. Military and civilian teams compete against each other.

It takes place once every two years at the end of April, in the south part of the canton of Valais below the summits of the Pennine Alps.

 

Pennine Alps

The 2020 race got cancelled due to Covid-19. Ziba wants to get a team together to complete for the 2022 race. This race is known as one of the toughest mountaineering in the world.

The race has it’s history; the PDG has military origins. During the Second World War, the Swiss army organised a competition to test the abilities of its soldiers.

Ziba members must have alpine experience. By this, it ensures their capability to independently master unexpected situations under extreme conditions in an inhospitable high-alpine environment.

Train to meet the physical, mental and technical requirements of the competition. Be willing to live the PDG spirit towards their team, all participants and organising staff.

What to join and become a Ziba member for this prestigous event?

More info:

https://www.pdg.ch/en/welcome/

More Future Adventures

The Hidden Gem of Ski Touring in Iran

The Hidden Gem of Ski Touring in Iran

SKI TOURING IRAN AND THE FRESH SNOW

Discovering a new climate to the Middle East, the secret of ski touring in Iran

For most skiers, the idea of an off-piste ski touring heaven usually evoke up thoughts of Verbier’s world-famous freeride terrain or Japans legendary powder fields. Probably not the Middle Eastern country of Iran for ski touring.

Our epic ski touring adventure was high in the Alborz Mountains which stretches across the northern edge of Iran. Compared to the Alps this is something back in time, with poorly groomed runs and old lifts. But where we were going, we didn’t need either.

Our mountains are majestic, covered in snow and more importantly, empty. No competition for fresh tracks, this was what every freeride skier could only dream—the ability to ski tour anywhere and be alone with the mountains.

Dizin, Iran

Our trek began with a three-hour hike across the rugged terrain, the fresh snow late last night had given us a new drive to move and to get as far as we can.

Once the skins were on the whole mountain range was our, and the climb to the top began. Gasping for breath at times, 4000 metres above sea level can leave you breathless, although I would like to claim it was the mountain view.

 The skiing certainly lived up to our expectation. The weather was erratic throughout the tour from bright sunshine to snowstorms, to thunderstorms. The weather gave us its all.

 We left feeling euphoric as well as excited to come back. We didn’t come close to scratching the surface of Iran’s ski touring potential. There were fantastic touring opportunities in every direction.

Ziba Adventures Ski Touring Iran donkey
Trekking through the snow along the river

Many of the mountains and couloirs looked like they had never even seen a pair of skis on them. In genuine Iranian hospitality, we left with a cup of tea and some incredible stories of what our adventure had incurred.

There are moments in life that you know will stay with you forever, ski touring in the Iranian mountains is one. Skiing in Iran offers a real adventure for those looking, combining incredible culture and unforgettable skiing experiences.

If you are interested in Central Asia see also
https://www.zibaadventures.com/portfolio/a-horseback-safari-kenya/

Other Adventures we’ve done

  • Exploring the Mosques of Uzbekistan
  • An Epic Tour of the Wakhan Corridor
  • The Hidden Gem of Ski Touring in Iran

An Epic Tour of the Wakhan Corridor

An Epic Tour of the Wakhan Corridor

The Hindu Kush, Tajikistan
A glimpse into 'The Roof of the World'.

A tour of the Wakhan Corridor transpires power from every pore.

Nothing can prepare you for the moment you turn into the Wakhan Corridor, after a while in the rough roads leading to it, The Wakhan Corridor is like a rainbow after the rainstorm.  A scene of relief as well as beauty.

With an unrestrained sense of adventure, we got into the Wakhan Corridor to tour across the rugged mountain valley. This vast landscape offers the country’s wild side with the Local Tajiks living a demanding, semi-nomadic existence that’s rooted in centuries of culture.

wakhan corridor
Cycling at 4000 metres above sea level on very difficult terrain. The view was worth it though

We explored the most remote and precious parts of the Wakhan Corridor. Coming down from Khorg, the Corridor opens up into a glorious vista stretching for miles and view over to Afghanistan and towards the icy peaks of the Hindu Kush.

The rich culture offers you the chance to venture off the Wakhan Valley and explore 12th Century fortresses climbing to the top to get the view down the valley, Yamchun Fortress is a with elements dating back to the 1st century, cooling off a hot soak in Bibi Fatima Hot Springs where we relaxed during the midday sun.

The Wakhan Corridor evenings were the highlight were we dined with a local Wakhan family. Introduced to the family and how they make their living creating traditional Wakhan belts and hats, in which some of us took a liking to.

Wakhan Corridor

The extensive mountain ranges offer us unique places to set up, and we overlooked the Wakhan Valley with a fire to keep us warm in the mountain top. It was a fitting end to an adventure like no other—pure, authentic hospitality at its finest.

Hindu Kush Wakhan Corridor Tajikistan
Relaxing evening in the view of the Hindu Kush Mountains

Highlights

Walking around the ruins of the ancient Fortresses in the Wakhan Corridor

Waking up to waking the sunrise over the Hindu Kush and marvelling at the immense views of the vast icy peaks

Driving through the rugged terrain and meeting the most friendly local people

Exploring the wild Tajik markets and the hustle of the crowds

If you are interested in Central Asia see also
https://www.zibaadventures.com/portfolio/the-mosques-of-uzbekistan/

Other Adventures we’ve done

  • Exploring the Mosques of Uzbekistan
  • An Epic Tour of the Wakhan Corridor
  • The Hidden Gem of Ski Touring in Iran
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