Karl Watson

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Karl Watson (Travel Documentaries)

On today’s Podcast, we have Karl Watson. Karl Watson is an Adventurer and Youtuber.

Having had a passion for exploring the world from a young age, it wasn’t until Karl went backpacking for the first time in 2006 that the travel bug truly bit him. He went on a 6-month journey through Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji and the USA.

He began making films of his trips to capture the experiences and share them with my friends. The key was always to try and make a fun and engaging film; they can watch it and enjoy it from start to finish.

We talk about his early travels and some of the difficult moments he has had along the way on the podcast.

Karl’s Website

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Video Podcast

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Transcript of our Conversation

Karl Watson

[00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the modern adventurer podcast where explorers and adventurers tell their stories coming up. The first day of hi Kane, it was like a 1400 meter climb is like a 12 mile hike. And I was just going up here. I was just getting more and more tired and And then as I started to go downhill, like, cause when you going up, you can sort of power through.

But when I went started to go downhill, my legs were so tired. I nearly fell over and buckled under the weight because my legs were so weak. And I was like, right, this ain’t working. And I started getting really angry myself and annoyed and upset going are, you know, it’s your first trip away in 18 months and you’ve fucked it up.

Like, you know, I’m John Horsfall. And on this weekly podcast, we talk to adventurers and explorers from around the world who have made remarkable and daring journeys in recent years from Everest climbers to polar explorers, world record holders, [00:01:00] and many more. I hope this podcast, sparks ideas and inspires you to explore and go on your own.

Granted. My next guest is a travel YouTube with a huge array of stories to tell he has covered all sorts of places from his big trip, from Hong Kong to New York. We talk about some of those incredible experiences he’s had and how that sort of transformed his YouTube into where it is now. Today, he gets to travel all over the world with some incredible companies and telling the most fantastic stories through his filmmaking.

So I am delighted to answer. Carl Watson to the podcast. Cheers, John, thanks for having me on absolutely pleasure. I mean, you’ve done some remarkable stuff over the last sort of 10 years, recording your adventures wherever, wherever you go in the world. Yeah. What I absolutely love about your story is the sort of beginnings of it and that sort of leap of faith that you did [00:02:00] from your Hong Kong to New York trip for everyone listening.

Probably the best place to start is at the beginning. Yeah. So this Hong Kong New York trip didn’t 2013. I’d been backpacking before. When I was 22, but I didn’t film it cause I didn’t have a camera or anything like that. But then I started making videos of my trips. Just little trips away, just for fun.

Cause I’ve worked in video as a video editor in London and all the stuff I was doing professionally was unbelievably dull. So I was like, well my film of trips, I was like more fun and creative to edit. And so I started doing more and more of those. And then I had this idea. It’s like, I want to go traveling again, but I want it to be the biggest trip possible.

I don’t want to work a single day. Like I’ve done the work holiday visa before, and I want to film it all and just cut it as if we’ve been commissioned to do a TV series, even though we hadn’t or just film it and, you know, see what happens with them. I didn’t have. High ambitions for how many people would watch it or anything like that.

I just thought it’d be a [00:03:00] fun souvenir. And hopefully the people we met in the trip would enjoy it. But it was just, just an idea, just a creative experiment. And so, yeah, me and my buddy, James spent three years saving up to go do this trip from Hong Kong to New York. As the title suggests. It doesn’t even suggest it tells exactly what it is, but he got, we went through 20 countries and four continents in nine months.

And yeah, James, who I went with my best friend and he never been traveling before. And and he was like, what do I need to do? I said, I’ll plan it all. I’ll organize everything. Just in exchange. You have to put up with me filming for nine months and he’s like, all right. Deal. And then in the buildup sort of saving up for the trip I sort of put the trip, we’re going to do it 2012.

And then I got a new job that kind of completely sort of my life and career out, which has been a bit of a Rocky ride. And I said, look, I need to do two years of this job. So we have to do the trip 2013 and he went, that’s fine. The only thing will stop me. As if I get a girlfriend and fall in love, [00:04:00] guess what happened?

So, so when I actually booked the ticket for the trip, it was going to be a solo trip. It’s just gonna be me by myself. And then, and that would’ve been May, 2012. I was going to set off in February, 2013 and then August, 2012. Day after James’s birthday, Ramey ups going, Hey, Carl, how are you? And I was like, oh, God what’s happened.

Cause he only asks how I am. If something bad has happened to him and his girlfriend had broken up, he was like, oh, is it still too late to come on the trip? And I was like, no, if you’ve got the money and basically all the money you save from the trip, he was then saving for a house with his girlfriend.

So he had all the money saved up. And when like the space of two days got booked on the trip super easy and he came on a trip that kind of changed both our lives. It changed his life. Okay. I used to traveling. He’s done tons of traveling since then. And it changed my life because it was just more eye-opening like on top of the traveling I’ve done before, but also this experiment of a video.

Once we eventually cut it, it went online and it didn’t just take off straight away, but gradually just sort of snowballed. And it’s now got like [00:05:00] two and a half million views or something. Can we pull the episodes together? So it’s sort of, and it’s led to me the YouTube taken off doing travel films professionally.

Like personally, still for YouTube and yeah, turn it all right. Basically, I suppose, back in what, 20 12, 20 13, that was sort of the early days of YouTube really. And people uploading. More personal stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And it was very, I often get people ask me sort of going on. Nowadays they’ll ask me what made you decide to do documentaries instead of blogs?

I was like, well, you got the chronology the wrong way round. I was making the documentaries before blogs really existed. I was inspired by TV, documentaries, like the long way, round, a long way down with you and McGregor and Charlie Baldwin, but he’s motorbikes around the world. And I loved their films because they were very honest about the experience.

Pitt playing. You felt like you’re on the trip with them. So I was just copying that. I didn’t even know what blogs were and if they get didn’t really know what a YouTube channel was either. I just, it was just YouTube as just a website could upload the [00:06:00] video onto so I could share the link to people. So when I first got notification saying, oh, someone subscribed to your channel, I was like, right.

Two questions, what’s a subscriber. And what’s a channel, you know, I had no idea and it’s just. But it just grabs you took off. And yeah, there was no other content out there really like it at the time. Yeah. So most videos of people backpacking would just be a GoPro montage or something. And so to have a, a video, which was kind of hopefully honest about the experience and kind of wore TV style, even though Sean, a home video camera, but certainly in terms of editing style that wasn’t, it wasn’t a crowded field for that.

So just, yeah, I think that’s one of the reasons it took off. Yeah. I think we all sort of discussing earlier about how, because you ha had your friend, what was his name? James going along with you, you could almost banter back and forth. You also had the experience. So they’ll was sort of a lot of elements to the sort of documentary filmmaking.

Whereas [00:07:00] as we sort of said, when it comes to blogs has to be like quite an interesting sort of story, otherwise to sort of captivate people throughout the whole experience. Really? Yeah. And if you’re traveling with someone, it just, you’ve got two people’s perspectives on a situation. And if one day.

Feeling a bit tired then maybe the other person can lift the video up by being excited and vice versa. Whilst if you, you know, I’ve done, I’ve filmed solo trips since then. And you know, if you’re tired, it’s like, well, the video is going to be shut for that day because you’re just going to be like, Hey, I’m here.

And you know people think you’re on grateful to be there. I say, no, I’m just tired and possibly hung over or something. But and it was great people. I think people who watched the Hong Kong to New York city. Really identified with James story a lot. Cause he was the first time traveler was I’d done traveling before.

So you saw a much bigger change in him across 11 episodes than you did necessarily with me. Cause I’d, you know, I’d sort of already found myself if you’d like to use the cliche kind of thing. I [00:08:00] was like, you know, he looks so different at the end that he doesn’t. And he was a different person in some ways by the end.

So, yeah. And it was a nine month trip, nine months trip. Yes. A nine months of filming and became 11 episodes sort of passing out of 45 minutes long each. And I took about, it took about year to edit, but I was doing it around a full-time job. So it wasn’t like I was editing 24 7. That was going to say that’s a lot of content to a.

Dissect really? Yeah. And you have to just be organized with your footage, especially once you get it in the editing program. Cause I get off people often ask me, well, how the hell do you edit nine months of footage? And it’s not like you put it all in one long timeline and just start trying to sort it out.

You sort of use folders and metadata to organize it by like country location activity. Just break it all down to these small little moments and then just start building it back up again and just, you know, get that first place work and then the next place. [00:09:00] And he just started building up. So you don’t still think, right.

I have to edit a nine month film. You sort of think is gonna edit that day and then you go from there. Nice. And so when when you came back from that trip, because for people listening, it was near Hong Kong to New York, but it was a very long winded way round. Wasn’t just like, oh, that doesn’t take any time a tool.

So for people listening who are unfamiliar with that, What was the sort of route that you were taking? So we went from Hong Kong, popped into China, and then we went down through sort of the classic Southeast Asia countries like Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Thailand into Malaysia, Singapore, and Bali. They went to Australia for a few weeks, went to the Outback in east coast then went to New Zealand.

And then London had chili went through south America to Argentina, Brazil. Stopped in Peru for a couple of weeks, then central [00:10:00] America went to Panama, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, and then we flew to LA and hired a car and drove to New York for the last leg. So yeah. Wow. And what were the sort of highlights from that sort of, I mean, how can you really sort of give nine months down to, yeah, it is, there’s so many different highlights.

It’s sort of an enjoy different places for different reasons as well. Yeah. Once we like Hong Kong just felt like an easy way into the trip. Cause you know, it’s quite a westernized place. But when we landed in China, it was like the big culture shock of like, oh God, what we actually do. And like for like property jumped in the deep end.

So that was scary and intimidating. But then you look back here to going out. It was great. Cause it was just like right. We’re in the adventure now. And then there’s. Other stuff where it’s like we’re in the Outback in Australia and doing this tool and the Outback could very, very easily be dull. Cause there’s a whole lot of nothing.

You’ve got to drive for Titan, but we had an amazing guide, an amazing group, and he knew all the cool spots to [00:11:00] go to and stuff. And so Elma stretches in between the cold places, whether there’s a waterfall or a national park or whatever. He would make the trip fun. He would teach you stuff, get you playing games and things like that.

So things like that, the Inca trail in Peru you know, our guide was again incredible for that and really made everyone, you know, at the start, the track, you said, oh, I’m going to make you all. I’m not going to call you a gringos or friends or tourists. I’m going to call you a family. Cause we’re going to be a family.

And at the start of it, you kind of the cynical side views go to Acacia, but then by the end, you’ve got the whole group so tight and on the penalty at night, we got to Machu Picchu. Like everyone was sharing all these like personal stories from the life and people were crying and I was like, oh shit, he did it.

So, so, so many great moments. But that’s, that’s the great thing when you go away for nine months, when you go for any period of time, It feels a lot longer than nine months or even two weeks, we go over that or even a weekend. It feels longer than if you just stayed at home doing [00:12:00] nothing because you’re filling it up with so many different experiences that it just, you know, rather than when you’re at home working nine to five and it all blurs into one, it sort of, it feels way longer.

So it felt like we always spend away for nine years rather than nine months when we got back. And so when you got back, did that sort of, but travel bug was always a sort of realities. Dave they live sort of set in and then, or was it the idea always to sort of set up a sort of travel documentary channel and it was, no, it was never, there was never a grand scheme.

I knew I was going to get back and work full time free. Just to land on my feet. And then I was going to move to being a freelance video editor rather than having a full-time job as a video editor, because working freelance you get paid more, have more flexibility work for more variety of clients.

And also if the work’s coming in, I can take any time off of one and then travel more. And, and the idea for that was just, ah, I can do more traveling [00:13:00] just to have more experiences and then also make some cool videos. But. I wasn’t thinking of being an audience for it yet. Cause I was still, even when I had this plan, I hadn’t actually released the Hong Kong New York series yet.

So I didn’t know that was even an audience there. It was just a sort of go free dance, have a better career and also get to do more traveling. And then fortunately the audience just grew for the trips and and so gradually sort of my professional and hobbies sort of starting to emerge in the middle.

And I suppose after that, you, as I say, you sort of had the travel bug. You’re sort of documentaries have taken you all sorts of places where you filmed it and such an amazing way that sort of captivates the audience. What’s the sort of trips that sort of stand out for you. Yeah. And they all stand out in different ways.

It’s almost like the cliche parent going, I can’t pick my favorite child or something like that, but it’s always the youngest. It’s true. Cause I’m the youngest. So it’s definitely, it’s definitely true. [00:14:00] Japan with Japan was one, always sticks out. Cause that place. So much fun, like so much to do.

The people are so friendly. The food is incredible, but it was just, it’s just fun. And everyone’s so happy. And it’s like probably out of violin them ahead when I was leaving that one, I had to go home. And then at deeds, another one in 2019 in September, I did my first sort of hosted my first tour.

Must have been working with Intrepid travel to create these bespoke. Where I basically look at their itineraries. Customize it for how I want it, then put it on sale to people who follow my channel and then we all go have an adventure together and we still have a local guide for the country. And I know I just made the video as always and the Morocco tour, it was the first one.

We’d done some, a lot of the people who sign up for it, where people are already knew, like there’s a few people who had never met before, just follow the channel. But I had a whole mixture of like, people I’ve known since I was a kids. James was that. [00:15:00] Other friends I met on other trips, people have met off the back of the YouTube channel have also have YouTube channels.

And so it was the whole thing felt like, you know, when you have like a it’s your birthday and you got all different groups of friends hanging together and it’s kind of surreal going, oh, that person’s chatting to that. It was like that, but for two weeks in Morocco, so it was just very, very surreal, but we all had an amazing time.

We had an incredible guide Hamad, so it was just. It was quite, quite overwhelming. Actually. I was just some moments I was sitting there going, I can’t believe, you know, we’re sitting there watching the sunset and Sahara and I’ve got all these people around me. And this little happened off the back of the YouTube channels.

Just like, how did this happen? It was quite, yeah, quite a while. And with that in what’s it called Intrepid travel that sort of Morocco. And you’ve got another big one coming up at the end of this year. Yeah, we’ve got a few coming up, so I’ve actually got Iceland coming up. [00:16:00] Friday. Yeah, so I was going to be great.

I think I was fortunate enough to go away this summer, but I think for most people it can be their first trip away since before the pandemic. So I think everyone’s gonna be bursting with excitement. What mind, the fact that they’re gonna have to pay probably 10 pounds for a beer, because it’s be excited to be away.

We’ve got that one. And then we’ve got a whole bunch lined up for next year. Just hopefully they can all happen. But we got Thailand, January Borneo in April, which was supposed to happen in 2020 has been put back two years, then Turkey in June, and then we’re going to Pakistan in September 22. Incredible because ever I’ve never been there, but most of these countries I’ve never been to apart from Thailand, but everyone I know who’s been to Pakistan says one of their favorite places in the world.

Like the scenery’s insane, it’s the nicest people you’ll ever meet. So I really, really can’t wait to experience it, not just for like the natural beauty, but also it’s a country that has like a [00:17:00] negative reputation. And so it’d be fun. Just sort of showing like, no, no, See, this is fine, you know? So so that one’s gonna be really cool.

Yeah. We had Ava Zubek on recently or. Not that recent. We will also have the time right now, and we spoke in depth about Pakistan and the sort of amazing, as you say, with an slightly negative press that comes its way, just the amazing people and the amazing scenery that that’s there. And just how incredibly a hospital.

The people of Pakistan. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I first heard about it when I was in, not obviously first out of the country, but how great it was. I was backpacking in India in 2016 and I was at one hostel and it was like an older couple of chatting to, and they said, oh, they went to Pakistan like 10 years ago.

And because we were talking about how in [00:18:00] India, like there’s a mixture of like some of the friendliest people you ever meet, but it’s also people, especially at the touristy places, just constantly hustling. You’re trying to sell your stuff, which gets very tiresome. And they went well, if you’ve got to Pakistan, You don’t get any of that.

They sort of treat you more like you write your guests, that our country, we’re going to treat you as a guest. And so almost rolled out the red carpet for you kind of thing. So yeah, I can’t wait to see what it’s like and yeah, I have to admit, I am yet to go on a plane since the start of the pandemics.

I imagine for everyone who’s going traveling in the next couple of months, or this year are absolutely buzzing to go. Yeah. And it’s kind of surreal. I was away the summer. I went to Switzerland at lean Croatia and just, it took like a couple of days as to like actually sink in. And I was actually there.

You sort of sit in there looking at the mountains, going like, am I actually here? Like, you know just been stuck in my own living room for so long. There’s so much, he finally. No. I took a, took a few days, [00:19:00] probably sort of settle in and sort of, rather than just sort of be in a state of disbelief. And that trip to Switzerland cause you had a little bit of a hiccup there.

Yeah. Basically my plan was to hike from , which is like about a hundred miles over 10 days. And Switzerland’s a place of sort of. Ever since I was a kid, like we used to go all the time as a family and I’ve still got a lot as an adult. So it was hot enough height there ever since I was a kid. So I thought, all right, I’m gonna have to carry a bit more weight.

But I know these mountains inside out, this is going to be fine, but then. Actually once. And I even tried practicing a backpack and going on hikes near where I live with all my laptop and equipment then, and just some clothes, but I didn’t sort of do the proper calculation of like actually when you get all the rest of your clothes and you actually pack them in, it ends up being a few kilograms more and.

And it was just the first day of hiking, it was like a 1400 meter climb. It was like a 12 mile hike. [00:20:00] And as I was going up, I was just getting more and more tired. And and then as I started to go downhill, because when you going up, you can sort of pass through. But when I went, started to go downhill, my legs were so tired.

I nearly fell over and buckled under the weight because my legs were so weak. And I was like, right, this ain’t working. And I started getting really. Angry myself and annoyed and upset going on. It’s your first trip away in 18 months. And you’ve fucked it up. Like, you know, and I was like, oh, but, and luckily my mum was there at the start because she was in this whole lane on holiday in Switzerland at the same time, she wasn’t gonna do the whole Trek.

But she was doing that day with me or part of that day with me. And as she could sort of just talk some sense into me, it was like, oh, well I have to do this. And she went, why you don’t have to do anything. You can miss a train right there. You can turn around. And right now, I was like, well, I want to do this.

And then she’s like, well, what do you actually want out of the trip? And I, all I wanted was just sort of just to get away from everything and just relax in the mountains and just go on enjoyable [00:21:00] hikes and not have to worry about anyone, not to worry about myself. Cause I know the place so well. And, and that first day I realized I wasn’t doing that.

I was actually freaking out. I was like, well, I don’t want to be freaking out. And also at the end of the day, I got to this town bank. Which I know very well. And God’s like my favorite viewpoint for some. And I was so exhausted rather than the sitting there going like, wow, I’ll sit in there going man.

Cause I was just, I was just so tired. I was like, well, this is wrong. You shouldn’t be, you know, I want to be sitting here in awe and I want to be enjoying every moment. And so then I thought that. Why don’t I just so get the train to the main towns of the Trek and just do day hikes and still cover most of the same grounds.

Still see everything I want to see, but not have to carry all my stuff during the day. So it won’t be as tired and I’ll be able to enjoy it more. And as soon as I sort of made that decision, like, right, that’s what I’m gonna do. It felt, I mean, I guess it was literally a weight off my shoulders, but [00:22:00] figuratively just suddenly was like, oh yeah.

That’s, you know, you know, you’ve made the right decision. Cause it feels like the right decision. And from then on in, I just loved every second of the trips. It was a hundred percent the right choice. I mean, the weather helped me make the choice as well because of like a big, I had coming up two days of like the highest, most remote passes of the Trek and it was scheduled for thunderstorms and it was just like, you know, hiking by yourself.

Over mountains and thunderstorms. It’s not brave. It’s just stupid. And so I said him when I was filming the trip, which I’m meditating right now. And I’ll sort of explain to camera and my decision-making. I was like, I was like, yeah, don’t want to just, I want it to be a challenge, but a fun challenge, not low, not like let’s go die in the mountains, you know?

And I, I don’t want to be remembered as the dumb YouTube who died on the mountain is just trying to make a video. I was like this way, I’ll just be remembered as a dumb YouTuber and that’s fine because I’ll still be alive. Yeah, I think, I think that’s important, especially when people, people listening and sort of taking on [00:23:00] these trips is the why of your, of what you’re doing.

And sometimes people sort of feel like they need to really suffer or really pushed themselves in order to get something out of it. But sometimes if your, why is that? You just want to switch off. Yeah. Going, and as you say, taking the train so that you have those moments to really appreciate, you know, the beauty of the Swiss mountains.

Whereas if you, as you say, you are too tired to even appreciate just those, those small moments, then you’re definitely making the rounds. You know, decision and your thinking. Yeah. And I’ve done trips before that have been physical challenges or mental challenges, but that’s what I signed up for. So I was happy to take, but actually what I wanted from this trip was just cause I know the country so well.

I just like, you know, I want it to be a relaxing trip, even if for some people hiking, isn’t relaxing. They think of that as sit on the beach, but for me, it’s [00:24:00] relaxing because you just haven’t got care in the world. And suddenly, and I wasn’t relaxed. And so I was just so it’s just, if you’re ever doing a trip and you’re not enjoying it, you just have to take a moment to sort of first take a deep breath, chill, and then sort of think, right.

What do I actually want out of this trip? And then is what I’m currently doing. Let me achieve that. Or do I just need to adjust the plan slightly and it’s fight you. Don’t. You don’t owe anything to anyone other than yourself. So if you want to change the plans, it’s fine. And then as soon as you do it, you’ll probably feel a little better as well.

Yeah. I remember I was having Julie Stewart on and he cycled around the world and we were talking about how, like you had you build it up in your head that everyone back home will be like so disappointed or something. But at the end of the day, when doing these trips, unless you’re breaking a world record or, you know, pacing yourself or yeah.

No one really cares. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It’s true. And [00:25:00] it’s like I think by having a YouTube channel and stuff like that, you almost feel like a responsibility to do it. I think I was putting pressure on myself cause I noticed, Hey everyone, I’m in Switzerland, I’m going to do this huge hike. And then two days later I was like, yeah, no, I’m not, you know, but, but in between that I was sort of thinking, well, I’ve said I was going to do this huge thing and now I’m not doing it.

And then. And then I was just like, well fuck him. So what, and, and the nice thing was when I posted it and sort of you know, cause sometimes align, you get like trolls and idiots and stuff like that. I mean, most of it’s positive, but when I actually posted saying I’ve changed our plan. Everyone committed.

Just saying, yeah, it sounds like you made the perfect decision and well done for listening to your gut. And so it was actually, it was actually nice that everyone got your reasoning and people shared similar stories going, oh yeah, I was doing this Trek once and realized to take it on too much and stuff like that.

So that was actually really encouraging that everyone, everyone got it and understood. The only thing now is, is editing the video. Cause it’s going to [00:26:00] be a completely different video than originally planned. Like I can’t put a video on line. A hundred mile Trek for Greenbelt, desert mat and give up after day one because people just press stop, go.

This is rubbish. So the videos is going to be granted messed up. It’s going to be just like Greenbelt as a map. I’m just going to say it, the star I Reggie, upon the Trek it, but I ended up just doing this so they know you’re going to change your mind. And then all I’m doing now is just when I do change a mind, explain the reasoning, but not dwell on it too long.

Like you don’t need the violins out and stuff like that. Cause it’s just. A fun travel video rather than like one man’s personal struggle. And if they already know you’re going to change their mind, that don’t need to hear you moaning about it. Cause they just want to see a fun video rather than you just feeling sorry for yourself.

So so it’s going to be at, it’s just not been right now and getting the tone just right. To sort of explain your reasoning, but not to dwell it too long because people, especially like your subscribers might be want to hear everything you’ve got to say. Most people have watched the video. Won’t subscribe to your channel.

It might be the first video they’ve ever seen, and they just want to [00:27:00] see you enjoying Switzerland. They don’t want to hear you sit down in a hotel banger balcony. I go through this mental struggle, like, oh, just shut up, Mona man. Go enjoy Switzerland. So so it’s gonna be a fun challenge to what it. But I, I think also it’s interesting for people to sort of see that because, you know, as you say, when you sort of just go up and go, Hey, I’m doing this big trip, everyone probably in their heads just say, oh, well, it’s probably quite easy.

You know, simple to do. And then suddenly to be like, after two days, be like, ah, damn, I didn’t quite get this. Right. This is why things didn’t work out. So if you plan on doing this trip, then maybe think about doing that or this, but for me, it’s about the enjoyment and I’m not getting any, so I need to move on.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s for me, it’s always about. Just enjoying it. And whether, if you are doing a trip that’s physically challenging or, or culturally challenging, whatever, but if you’ve gone there to do that, then you’ll enjoy the [00:28:00] challenge. But I wasn’t doing that trip for a challenge. I just thought it would be easy and it would be, you know, it didn’t take into consideration the sort of the accumulated exhaustion from carrying that weight, you know, it’s sort of all right for half an hour, but.

Going up a mountain and then going higher and higher and you get more and more tired. And then sort of just, it was just a miscalculation, but then you have to go like, oh right. I messed up, switch suppliers, then get on with it and enjoy yourself. Have you taken any on more the sort of challenges before?

I mean, I’ve done other plenty of other treks before like done the Everest base camp Trek. We tried to Raymond mountain and Venezuela. We’re lucky to get that just before Venezuela. Really went downhill. And for those, yeah, I mean, they were, they were, but for that, we’d signed up for an adventure, like, especially the arraignment Trek is like six days of tracking.

Three of the days you’re on top of the mountain exploring rounds, but, you know, we’re just sort of sleeping in [00:29:00] tents. You know, you’re carrying all your camping equipment and sleeping in tents and your mattress was like, as thin as a bit of paper and you’re sleeping on dried at mud, just like sleep on concrete.

And so he couldn’t get any sleep. They didn’t have much food for us to eat because this country has gone through supply problems, which has gone way worse since then. And so it was a bit of a struggle. But then you get on top of the road, ranger mountain, they call it the lost world because it’s just like such a unique landscape up there and plants and wildlife, you don’t get anywhere else in the world.

If you’ve seen the Pixar film up, it’s basically they based where they go to, and that was based on that mountain. And it was just, it was, it was incredible. It was like one of those best travelers travel experiences. Right. But it was a challenge. It was a struggle. It was part of, you’ve watched your honor going, oh, I can’t wait to get back and just, you know, have some comfort and stuff, but then you have to go like, no, no, enjoy it.

Wash your hair. You’ll be back before, you know I had another one. We did the, on the same trip early in the trip. We were attracted the last city in [00:30:00] Columbia which is kind of like that similar to Machu Picchu. But the only way to get there as a track, you can’t get a bus up to. And the track they had was amazing through the jungle, but then just as we got there, we sort of did the tour of the city in the morning.

And by the time we finished the tour food poisoning kicked in for me. And so basically, and the track up was like two days through this hot sweaty jungle jungle. You’re like a human fountain of sweat. It was just so hot and so tiring. And it’s like, right, that really hard training you’ve done now do it with food poisoning where you’ve got no energy and stuff.

And so that. The longest two days ever when he was just like, you know what? You have to just get yourself in a frame of mind going put one foot in front of the other. And then before you know it, before, you know, it you’ll be on a podcast chatting about it in a few years’ time. So, yeah. Yeah. I trained to sort of do anything with food poisoning is a massive struggle.

And yeah, I remember having to sort of [00:31:00] try and get sort of 20 odd miles with food poisoning day after day. It’s just awful. And as you say, all you want to do is literally cut up in a ball and hide away. Whereas when you pretty much have to force yourself, this is what I find very interesting, especially on the sort of mental, the mental side is that if today or tomorrow we got food poisoning, we’d probably stay in bed, chill out, you know, rest up.

Whereas, but when you’re on these sort of track, do you literally have to force yourself to sort of walk. A ridiculous amount, whether it’s 20, 15, 10 miles and you can easily do it. But if, as you say tomorrow, you just sort of woke up and said, ah, no way, I can’t even get out of bed. I can’t even get to my front door I’m out.

But the sort of mental side of it is just sort of pushing through. Yeah. And I’ve had. One of the time I had to really push through and to experience this wasn’t luckily had enough food [00:32:00] poisoning for this. But I was doing this press trip in Catalonia, in Spain, and the idea was they were going to keep everything a surprise to me.

So it didn’t know what I was doing each day, which sounds great on paper, but it’s very counterproductive when you’re filming the whole trip yourself. Cause you don’t know what kit to bring for each thing. And then, so they took me to like some wineries for lunch. And then the afternoon and went right.

You’re doing a via ferrata. So I was like, what? And then and then the guide we had, it was like a two hours climbing up. Rock face mountain and via fraud is look easy. Cause it’s like, oh, it’s just a ladder. But when you get close to it, that kind of each bit is quite far apart and you’re pulling yourself up and you have to even use handhold and other stuff and you clipped home, but you’re, you got two clips on, but you sometimes have a bit where you might, if you fell off, you wouldn’t dive, you might still fall like two meters.

And I was just, I was terrified the whole time. It was just pure Tara and like our guide. It was from Catalonia. So he [00:33:00] couldn’t speak English and he couldn’t even speak Catalan. Sorry. He couldn’t speak. He could barely speak Spanish. You’re speaking in Catlin. And like our, I had the tourism agency guide with me.

She was trying to translate, but it was when you’re doing something that’s scary. Like communication’s such a big port and part of it, like not just clear instructions, but also encouraging you and sort of comforting you. And he would, we get to one bit, we’re going to climb and he’d explain it for 10 minutes and cars.

To the tourism agency guide. And then he looked at me and go Le left leg. I was like, is that it, like, you talked for 10 minutes before, is that there’s gotta be more to it than just, you know, and so I’ll let you have to sort of think back to anytime I’ve done some, anything scary before my trips you know, thinking about what they always say, like take deeper.

You know, and then you think, oh, every sports cliche goes through your mind, like right. Take a one step at a time, you know, like you can go out, you can get on to that one. All right. Do that. And then just do the next one. Stop trying to think about [00:34:00] how far you’ve got to go. But it was, it was like two hours of pure Terex.

There’s no way you could go back down either. And so you just, I was just stuck in it and had to get through it. And then we got to the top and there was the most perfect sunset. The guide was like, see, wasn’t it worth it. I was like, it could have hiked up here and had the same sunset, you know? But we got back to the hostel afterwards, which the the climbing guide ran and he was like, do you want a beer?

And I was like, yeah, big one. And they just said it to me. I was like, right. Another, cause I was just, I was shaking. God. Wow. what your plan now. Just to sort of continue this on doing the Intrepid travel. Yeah. Sort of five, five or six a year. Yeah, so probably more like four year. But that sort of, that a main trips I’ll do that.

I’ll film for the channel. Other bits and pieces will come up. But also One of the other trips that got planned, which was supposed to happen August, [00:35:00] 2020, but we put by a couple of years, is that we’re going to do it August 22. Mean to friends are gonna do a Eastern European road trip. So we’re going, gonna go from talent in Estonia all the way down to Athens in Greece, but going through like, you know, Ukraine and just, just so many places like 1200 countries and we’re gonna.

So each you won’t have that long in each country. Cause we gonna have like six weeks to do it, but we’re hoping to have like a, you know, a couple of days in the capital city, then a couple of days out in the countryside, sort of see two different sides of each place. And when we’re in the big cities, we’re going to do couch surfing so we can meet the locals and get like rather than just showing up and just doing a walking tour of a city where they explain what a statue is and stuff like that, rather than just sort of meet some local.

Cause we don’t know anything about this countries at all. And so And I don’t think the audience might not know that much about it. So there’s not too much expectation of like, oh, you have to see this or do that. They’ll just be happy to see what you show them. So we’ll just show if we shot these places where we’re couch surfing and they’ll just show us some cool stuff and we’ll just go along [00:36:00] with it.

I think for people listening and sort of trying to sort of, yeah. Couch surfing is such a sort of good way of getting around. And another one was warm showers, which I used as a site, which is sort of dedicated towards cyclists. Turing. I’ve heard of that one now, have you? No, no, no. Say sort of sake. It’s geared towards cycle touring and say you, wherever you cycle, people are like hosts all over the UK, Europe, America, wherever it was.

Yeah. You put people up and when you go put. And it’s a sort of receptacle. Yeah, exactly the same, but just sort of geared towards cyclists. So there’s always these places which you can always meet the locals, as you say, we’ve couch surfing. Yeah. And then the more of them the better. Really? Yeah. I know.

It’s something I haven’t done before. Not for any particular reason. Why not? Mainly do hostels nowadays I [00:37:00] do private rooms or hostels. So you get the best of both worlds, like get the atmosphere, but get a good night’s sleep, you know, rather than being in a dorm rooms full of some, you might end up with some teenagers in your room or something like, which you just no, 37 hours that’d be a bit creepy.

But yeah, so I’ve always had people recommend couch surfing to me, just haven’t got round to it yet. So I think this be. Perfect time to do it. And these, these countries were literally no nothing, you know, you know, all of them, but couldn’t tell you anything about them. And so it’d be very exciting. I think it’s the snoring in the hostels that gets me.

Yeah. Yeah. And it’s just, oh, just beat Luke. Just don’t know the hostel etiquette yet. And coming to lights on talking late or just, you know, it’s just, this, there’s all the hostile cliches. Like I’m now for me, it’s like, I’ve earned my stripes. I can stay in a private room now. Well, Carla, it’s been absolutely awesome.

Listening to your stories and about all your sort of adventures. There’s a part of the show where we [00:38:00] ask the same five questions to each guest each week. Okay. With the first being on your trips, what’s the one gadget that you always bring with you and you cannot say a camera. Well it used to be my iPod.

But now it’s my iPhone’s got everything on because before Brian NYPA. When I used to go away I would have a Disman and have like three massive CD watt sort of CDs so that I have an iPod, which I got for 2006 and my first backpacking trip saved me so much room. So, and then now with the iPhone, you can put like, you know, your movies on books, whatever.

Cause it’s like you know, when you go on these big adventures, you do have a lot of long journeys. And so, you know, you won’t have something to entertain you, you know, you know, people sort of sometimes go, well, I’m not going away to listen to my music or watch movies. I’m going to wait to experience a new culture.

It’s like, yeah. But in order to get there, you’ve got to get a 12 hour [00:39:00] bus. So you have to bring some entertainment, you know, and you might be waiting for a five-hour train. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So. That all my battery pack as well. Like this one here, which a lot of work for people watching the video rather than listen to the audio.

But yeah, it’s just, it charged like. 20 times off that which can be a lifesaver. Cause you never know when you’re not going to have a plugin, you’ll need it. So yeah. Nah, those battery packs are awesome. I have quite a few. What what about your favorite adventure or travel book? I have to go with the real cliche one, but it is the beach.

Of course I remember. I read it the first time I read it was at the start, my first backpacking trip in 2006. I went to Singapore then a few weeks in Australia, then a few months in New Zealand and a working holiday visa. And then I went to Fiji and American way home. But like my brother bought it for me for Christmas, sort of before I went off on my trip.

[00:40:00] And then you know, even I was seeing the film tons and it’s the one, never, it gets overused and over reference, but. Got you in the adventurous mood sort of cause it’s it, you start reading it and say, right, I’m not just going to try and coast my way through this trip. I want to go and explore and get into mischief and just see, do some fun stuff.

So yeah, it’s a cliche answer, but someone on golfer, very nice. Why, why adventures important to you? For me, it’s like, It’s making the most of, you know, it’s going to sound all philosophical here, but making the most of the time you got on this planet, you know, for me, there’s so much to experience in this world.

And so many fun adventures to have. If you’re sort of privileged enough to be able to actually for, to go experience them, that it’s for me, it’s a word. Of time, not, you know, I mean, I know what traveling is, not for everyone and stuff and each their own, all that kind of stuff. But for me, it’s just, it’s [00:41:00] like, that’s the ultimate way for me to live.

My life has just gone have as many as me film my life with as many amazing experiences as possible. Again, Robin just coasting through it and just, you know, I’ll be one day immersion to another. Yeah. It’s very true. Yeah. I, I, I suppose it’s always about making sure that maybe when, when you get to your old age, you don’t look back.

Yeah. I always say I always, anything in life just apply the old man and retirement home test, you know, like I mean, I don’t have a family or kids yet, but I would like it someday because even though if suddenly I had kids appear out of thin air tomorrow, I’d be like, oh no, I’m going away. To Iceland soon, I’ve got all this stuff planned should be a massive inconvenience, but eventually, you know, the old man in the home we’d like to look back on.

Yeah. I did have a family one day, you know, so but just not yet. What about your favorite Quate? I can do another one from the beach, actually. I can do, I’ll give [00:42:00] you a couple there’s one from the end of the. Which I love so much. It’s like, I still believe in paradise, but now I know it’s not somewhere that you go.

It’s how you feel from home and your life. If you find that moment last forever which is so true about traveling, it’s like you can be in a place that, like, while I was saying earlier about the Australia Outback, you know, we, in some of the places you went to, when that interesting summit was amazing But we had an amazing group.

So it was just one of the best times. And so you can’t, you could go to what people can tell you is paradise might be like, you know, a tropical island somewhere, but you could be bored or miserable, you know, it’s, it’s up to you and the people you’re with to make it paradise. And the other one I’ll do is get even more geeky.

I’ll use the Gandalf. One of all you have to do is decide what to do with the time that it’s given to you. Which I think is a fantastic, fantastic. And stuff and I don’t have any tattoos, but if I did, it might be of that. [00:43:00] Well, you say the cliche it’s the first time we’ve heard them on the podcast.

Oh, cool. All right. Yeah, we’ll just cut out a bit rested as cliche. I said, I’m going to pull one out from a really rare quote from unheard of film called the beach and the Lord of the rings in order the ring to pad as the favorite book. They many times. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it is an adventure book. I mean, I love one of the, I mean, it’s a bit of a segue, but I love adventure films.

And so that’s one of the things that made me want to make travel films is like, well, if you want to make an adventure movie, you need a, a cast to crew with scripts, all these other bits. So I was like, well, why not just go on an adventure and film that, and that sort of pod reason why I make longer films and have sort of more.

Music than just tropical houses or it’s my adventure movie, you know? Yeah. And definitely something to look back. As you say in your old age, I’ll just click it and watch it. No, quail on the VHR. VHS is yeah, luckily they are digitized. So [00:44:00] people listening are always keen to travel and go on these sort of grand adventures.

What would you recommend for people wanting to get stuff? I think there’s a lot of people for the first time backpacking adventure, the popular places like Southeast Asia, like Thailand, Vietnam, and because it’s such a well-oiled machine for backpack and it’s so easy to travel around and it’s cheap, or people often do Australia and or New Zealand and do a work only visa because things like Australia, New Zealand, again, it’s so easy to travel around, but you can.

Learn the ropes of traveling, like staying in hostels, getting from a, to B doing new activities, making new friends, but there’s no culture cultural barrier to go over, you know, and they speak the same language and things like that. So it sort of, you know, learn that bit of traveling first and then, you know, chucking the other challenges as well.

So that’s, that’s one reason why it’s a popular one, but also if you’re really [00:45:00] unsure What to do, then you can book yourself on a tour, whether it be with Intrepid or geo ventures or Contiki or bus about cause they just saw everything for you. And it’s sort of, it can be a good way. I mean, tours are for all people of all ages and stuff, but they are a good way for a first time traveler as well, just to ease themselves into the experience.

And then, you know, often, you know, I, I backpacked around India for like six weeks by myself in 2016, but I met some people who were on it. And then they had a tool for two weeks and then they kept traveling for a few more. So these use the tool to get used to India and traveling around. And then literally with friends, they made the tour then carried on traveling with them.

So that’s another, another nice way to ease yourself into it, because if you dive right into depends, I mean, some people like to do that, but you might end up just getting freaked out and then you’ll just go home. Wash it, ease yourself into it. Then it’s yeah. It’s not such a big shock to the.

Very good. There you go. We’ll stopping you. [00:46:00] Finally, what are you doing now? And how can people find you and follow you on your future adventures? So the next series love on my YouTube channel YouTube channels, just called car wasn’t travel documentary. Tell it like it is. So just search call Watson call with a K and it will come up.

And it’s called Watson docs on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook. The next film that would be out would be the trip. I did this summer through Switzerland at the increase year. That probably won’t be out to late October because busy editing it right now in between doing freelance jobs. And then.

My next tour coming up in Iceland which starts on I fly on the 1st of October. So that’ll probably be out by, out by Christmas, but I’m about to get myself in like a. Problem that I haven’t had for a while, which is something like a backlog of trips to edit which is sort of after 18 months of scrounging around trying to find something to edit for the YouTube challenge.

It’s a nice problem to have again, let’s hope it all continues. Yeah. Yeah. Hope so. [00:47:00] Yeah. I mean, you know, we’re not fully out in the woods yet, so I don’t want to celebrate too early, but it’s starting to look up anyway there. Well, Carl, thank you so much for coming on the sheet. Cheers, John. That has been good.

Fun. Thanks for inviting me. It’s been great listening to your adventures and I look forward to seeing these Croatia Switzerland come out in the future. Yeah. I’m looking forward to seeing how the video turns out as well. Well, thank you. Cheers buddy. Thanks for listening. You can watch the podcast on YouTube now and don’t forget to subscribe and sign up to the monthly newsletter, which is in the description, but.

I hope you enjoyed the show. And if you did tag me on Instagram, I, John Horseville, I’m always keen to connect with other adventurers and I look forward to next week for another fascinating telephone adventure, but until then have a great day and happy adventures.

Tom Court

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Tom Court (Kiteboarder)

On today’s Podcast, we have Tom Court. Learning to windsurf at an early age he was introduced to Kitesurfing in 1999.  Ever since that day, he has been an enthusiastic kiter and quickly made his mark on the PKRA Kiteboarding world tour after winning the UK under 18’s championship in his first year of competition.

Currently, Tom is an International rider and is well known for pushing the sport through his online video productions and powerful riding style. His goal is to showcase kiteboarding at its best and represent the brands that support him through his individual style and unique thinking both on and off the water.

Tom Court’s Website

Tom Court’s Instagram

Video Podcast

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Transcript of our Conversation

Tom Court

[00:00:00] Tom Court: Hello, and welcome to the modern adventure podcast coming up. I did a kite surfing trip with my dad, actually down the coast of Peru and some of the best waves, best waves in the world break along the coast of Peru and and, and a really long way I was out there. It there’s only two of us, me and my dad, no one else around.

And I dropped my kite and the wave took it and I was leashed onto my kite. And before you knew it, I’m just underwater being dragged by the waves. So the wave power and energy is in the car. And I’m there underwater water being like sort of hogtied and dragged back bits, and it’s just going and going and going and going.

And I’m like, oh my God, this is going on for a long time. And then I’m trying to reach behind my back to the quick release, but because I’m being dragged too fast, I can’t actually get to it. My next guest is an adventurer and kiteboarding extraordinary. He has some remarkable stories from his times, traveling all over the world from Dominican Republic to Sri Lanka, to Cuba.

We talk on the [00:01:00] podcast about some of his incredible experiences over the years. We also talk about his passion for the extreme and how he overcomes fear in doing some of these incredible stunts. And I am delighted to introduce Tom court to the pod cost. John, thanks for having me mate. Pleasure to be here.

Oh, it’s absolutely great to have you on, I haven’t seen you in quite a few months or some sit down and actually have a proper good chat. Yeah, man. Yeah, it’s been great to catch up with a fellow adventure. It’s a, it’s been a strange time for all of us, I think. So it’s nice to, you know, to be doing these things and to share experiences at this time for people listening, Tom is a kite sporter kite surfer, whatever you want to call it and has done some incredible stuff over the years for people listening, let’s start at the beginning.

How did you actually start down this sort of path? Well, I, yeah, I’ve always been interested in and travel. And I guess for [00:02:00] me, I’ve always used the sport as a vehicle for travel and, and kite surfing for me came along a lucky time in my life where I was young enough to sort of get into a good time for the sport and a good time for myself.

And, and that opened up for me, like the opportunity to travel with, with kite surfing. I learned to kite, so my, my dad taught me to kitesurf when I was about 11 years old out in the Canary islands register on a family holiday out there. And that’s sort of where I first yeah. Like learned and really got my hands on, on a kite.

And then since then I never looked back really. And and kite surfing has been apart of my life and a part of my career now. Since, since I can remember, so yeah, I was very lucky to have that opportunity. Cause you, before you sort of did a lot of traveling, you were sort of traveling up for competitions and.

Winning when he metals high potassium. Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, [00:03:00] so that’s how it started. My dad taking me around to competitions in the UK and doing the British championship series in kite surfing, which realistically at the time was just a really good way to have a nice weekend and and a fun time and catch up with like-minded people doing similar.

Sport. And then I won the British title. I think I won the British juniors in 2002. And then, and then I won the top flight after that. And then once, once that sort of the ball was rolling in that direction, then I started looking into the world, turns dead about five or six years traveling around on the world to, and then that sort of, you know, naturally got me into the, into the, to the motion of the whole, to the whole thing.

Well, you have this sort of privilege of living on the isle of Wight, which is sort of your sort of background playground, as one might say, you had a, some pretty awesome sort of content Shane [00:04:00] over the summer and the summer sort of taking you all over the place. Right. Yeah, well, I mean, it’s been a strange couple of years, I guess, for everybody around the country, but yeah, living on the island, Y is, is definitely a blessing when it comes to, you know, sports and access to nature and like, you know, getting in, getting in the water.

Yeah, and that’s been a big part of, of me having access to sport was living on the island and just, you know, getting, getting out and see as much as I can. So, yeah, it’s been a, it’s been a nice place to live over the years. I mean, initially with travel and like getting away, it seemed like a disadvantage because obviously I’d have to get the ferry off the island every time.

And then the tax to the airport, you know what started as a struggle, I guess when I was younger or, or an added cost, at least that’s become very much an advantage. You know, now. That’s for sure. And so with the sort of [00:05:00] we’ve kite surfing, I mean, it’s sort of your passion is for this sort of extreme element of the sport.

And I mean, we had Megan on yesterday, not yesterday last time or a few weeks ago, sort of talking about sort of fear and we’ve kite surfing. You’re throwing yourself up many, many meters into the air. How did this sort of progression to sort of conquer that fear or bringing yourself into your sort of element of pushing it sort of one step up every time?

Was it a progression or have you always had this sort of drive to push yourself further and further? Yeah, I think S and N it’s a good question. I think, and risk taking risks. It’s a massive topic. And it’s, you know, over recent months as well, like fear and other things have come into other elements of our life that, that, that you can [00:06:00] see holding, holding you back or, or doing things like that.

Where, and I think, yeah, learn like through extreme sport, through kite surfing and through taking risk I think the more you do it, the more you become. Yeah, capable of doing it. And the more you look for it, and the more you realize, actually that the risk isn’t necessarily a bad thing. And for me now, you know, I got to the stage where I really am like searching for risky things.

And so, you know, looking for the adrenaline that is associated with pulling something risky off or, or pushing yourself to the limits, you know, physically or mentally. And I think, you know, sport and kite surfing got me into that from an early age. And yeah, now the age of 30 plus it’s like become something more systematic in my life where I, you know, I know that I need risk.

I know that I need to push myself. And I, and I feel that, you know, I, I don’t shy away from. But [00:07:00] it’s just learning. Yeah. It’s all about learning to, to kind of manage it and choose your risks wisely and and kind of calculate those risks before you take them on. But definitely, you know, taking risk is a big part of, of sport.

And it’s something that gives me, it gives me a lot of kicks and the dynamics. Oh yeah. This sort of drug of adrenaline, you’re sort of looking for that next. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it’s something you don’t get from doing anything other than pushing yourself to the limit, you know, to, to the limits or close to the limits.

And, and it’s, and it’s not something you can cultivate that really in any, in any other way. So in a way it’s a very healthy addiction, assuming you assuming you, you, you know, you can calculate the, the possible risks you know, Amazing. So your, as you said, your trips have taken you all over the world from Sri Lanka to Morocco, to all sorts of serving credible places.

What’s the [00:08:00] one that sort of sticks out for you as like the adventure paradise. The adventure paradise. I mean, as many different types of adventure, that’s something that I’ve learned over the years. That’s a show. And yeah, I had different phases of my career where I’ve been traveling for different reasons.

I traveling for competition is very different to traveling, you know, for free riding, which I’m doing now, where I’m very much absorbing myself into the location, the place and looking for. You know, different experiences within that rather than staying in one place and pushing yourself from a competitive angle.

So I feel like, you know, earlier in my career, I got to see a lot less of the places that I was traveling to because I was very focused on, you know, certain specifics, even though. It was definitely the reason why I traveled so much was for the sport. But I think, you know, the, the recent trip that I’ve just done was felt to me, like one of the more adventurous trips I’ve done in a long time, because I was coming off the [00:09:00] back of COVID and doing not much yeah.

Getting out into the Sahara desert and just disappearing into, into the middle of nowhere. With no one around for me, that sort of, that sort of exposure and separation is something that you can’t, you know, easily get these days. So yeah, for me, something like that is, is very exciting. So you’ve had a recent one in the Dominican Republic.

What happened there? Yeah, Dominican Republic’s it’s it’s a paradise in many ways. It’s a great island. I it’s next to Haiti. It’s on the same island as Haiti. But it’s, you know, it’s blessed with really good wind conditions and two seasons of the year. So good, good wind and good waves.

And it’s pretty much 30 degrees most days. You know, it’s a tropical island. Unfortunately I left my laptop on the plane on the way out there, this time round. So I immediately landed on a back foot. [00:10:00] Never found the my MacBook pro didn’t get any response from the airline on that either. So I sort of handicapped myself straight away on that, on that trip.

And the rest of the trip was sort of you know D dealing with repercussions. But those are the things that can happen. I think you have to just say setting them up as you go along because kite surfing was quite a sort of new sport in the sort of grand schemes of it. And I suppose it’s been growing in popularity over the past sort of 20 years or say it’s your aim to continue to sort of promote it.

Are you doing lots of work to sort of encourage more and more people into kite surfing? Well, yeah, I mean, I, it goes hand in hand with some of the things I’ve just said. You said like the the ability for a sport to give you access to a lifestyle, or, you know, create the ability for you to take risks or, you know, get out there and experience [00:11:00] things because you’re focused on a sport.

For me, that’s a very powerful motivation tool. I think a lot of people lack, like if you, if you imagine going on a trip, So sunbathing. I mean, I can’t really even imagine it, but like it’s, there’s very little reason for you to get up and go and do it, you know? And it’s very easy to give up on that, on that that trip for whatever reason that might be.

Whereas if you’re going somewhere to do a sport, to chase the wind, to access things that you can’t get in, the place that you currently are, that, that. That’s where the power of sport really lies for me. Especially nowadays he used to be motivated by competition and things like that, but yeah, I mean, my, my drive within the kite surfing industry is to, is to promote it for, for the amazing lifestyle possibilities and the amazing know.

But I think impacts it can have on your life. And then, yeah, other than that, I, I like to represent kiteboarding in a visual sense across my YouTube channel. [00:12:00] And, and keep putting out content that, that really represents kiteboarding for what it is. And I think, yeah, now, especially as a good time for kite surfing with the entry to the Olympics in the next in the next round, it’s, it’s going to get them a lot more visibility.

And I think the industry, the industry has been on a, on a sort of indefinite rise since I started the sport at the age of 11. And now, and now it’s looking like, you know, something very popular with a lot of very engaging, engaging, and interesting people. And you’re taking part in it. It’s still an exciting time because staffing, I think, yeah, I think there’s a lot of people.

And as you say, you travel around the world, sort of probably with the same sort of group of people who are always competing, what do you think separates like the exceptional ones from the good ones in terms of how do you push yourself to becoming number one in . Yeah, well, it’s [00:13:00] an interesting one. I think, to become number one in anything you do in life, you have to have a certain psychology.

You have to be very single minded and highly motivated. Full that ends, you know, to become number one. I mean, there is only one number one, but that’s not to say there’s only one place to be good at something, you know, like there’s, there’s, you know, having a bigger industry around the sport, I think makes a big impact and a lot of space for other people that have talents that aren’t necessarily winning.

I mean, myself and my career. Has always been motivated by the lifestyle that the sport can offer rather than, you know, winning the next event. I mean, I always enjoyed that part of it and got kicks and enjoyed the competitive side of it. But now it’s abundantly clear that, you know, you’re not always going to be number one, you can’t always win, but there are always opportunities within a growing industry for people to represent different areas or inspire people in different [00:14:00] ways.

And I think, you know, Yeah. With the content generation and YouTube and different things that are going on there now. Yeah. It’s opening doors for possibilities to be good at other things within an industry. So, yeah, I think yeah, that’s, that’s a really interesting thing for me, I think about, about the development and how things are going.

Your psychology has changed over the years from, as you sort of said from the sort of competing to more like now more of the enjoyment of the sport. Yes, definitely. Definitely. And yeah, a big part of that for me. And I think a big part of any athlete’s career, it was injury and coming across, you know, injuries that really prevent you from and hold you back from doing the things that you enjoy doing.

And then the process of overcoming those injuries. And, and, and the PR the whole process involved with, with coming back from injury that has definitely changed my psychology into, into something [00:15:00] much more aligned with, you know, appreciating the moments that the sports can offer, rather than just being in a highly motivated in one direction to, to achieve.

Then the pinnacle of achievement. Yeah, it gives you a much more rounded perspective on, I think, what, what the sport can offer you in general. So what happened with this injury? Well, I’ve blown my ACL twice in my right knee and once in my left knee. So I’ve had a knee knee surgery three times. The first knee surgery to something like 12 months to come back from.

And then the second one, I did it again in competition, in the same competition. Exactly. Yeah. Later doing the same trick. It was like a big deja VU and I blew the same ACL second time round, but the second time round takes a lot longer. So it took like 15 months to get back from that. So when you, you know, A three year [00:16:00] span of coming up against not being able to do sport and not being able to do things that you enjoy or work or anything like that.

And then my soul realization out of that was I just need to get back to a place where I can enjoy what I love doing. And that was my motivation, you know, to come back from it. Or I think if I didn’t have the sport, I would have found it very difficult to, to get over the injuries. I think. Certainly gotten an appreciation that the sort of psyche of an injury, especially if sports and exercise or anything around that is your life getting injured.

Just absolutely knocks you for six. And if it takes where your whole, I don’t know, identity it it’s only takes a lot. So to come back from that, And you have to sort of completely change your mindset with it. I, I certainly felt that when you [00:17:00] get injured, like you have some really dark days and you have to sort of find the root at the end of the tunnel, which is for you kite surfing.

And as you say, you went from that competing to now sort of more of the enjoyments. Definitely. Definitely. I mean, I, so I, I mentioned I did it twice, so I’m on one knee and I, the, the profound realization that I had was when I felt this felt it happened the second time was that I had not actually really learned anything from the first time it happened.

So. And, and, and the first time round the recovery process for me, it was very much to getting back to where I was prior to the injury. So, you know, becoming the person that I had been getting back to competition and getting back into competing and getting better again than I was previously. And I just realized actually on the second time round, You have to become a new person.

You have to become somebody who you will be, you know, not [00:18:00] who you were. And injury is a very I mean, it’s the most educational process I think anyone can go through. And I think, yeah, having, having a focus, having a drive and having a sport, that’s something that, you know, that you love is key. To getting through it, to getting through it.

And, and also the knowledge that you will be somebody new after it, rather than the person you were before is a, is a vital piece of the puzzle, I think, to, to getting through it. Yeah. It’s that sort of process of who you are to who you’re about to become. I thinks, I think is definitely important. And for anyone who’s had long long-term injuries, I think would understand, but that’s what, four years with three ACL’s that’s four years of your career on the sideline.

Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, pretty much. And you know, this is where I, I kinda knew an issue. You know, every [00:19:00] athlete is aware of the injury risk. And I kind of knew that the knees were a weak point and call it surfing. And I was expecting it in sight in many ways, but it doesn’t help you when that finally happens, but I’ve been.

Filming and building content libraries and, you know, really kind of almost without realizing it, investing time and, and things that I could do when I was injured. So, you know, within that time I released a movie sort of like called the free ride project on YouTube. It’s, there’s four of them. Now I’ve done four movies.

Yeah, it’s like a 45 minute sort of edit about, you know, the staffing industry and getting behind the scenes and like how boards are made and, you know, the, the life of the riders and kind of absorbing myself into the industry and in other ways and, and kind of being entrepreneurial in a sense of how do I stay in this industry?

How do I add value to this [00:20:00] industry and how can I, you know, retain my. You know, position within, within it over the recovery period. And I was lucky enough to have sponsors that really stuck with me through that and and supporting my vision. So it was you know, in the end we came, it has become a very positive process in my life.

And I think, you know, it could, at one point it could have easily gone the other way. I think, you know, when it comes to finding out who you want to become through injury, I think it’s an amazing sort of transition and one that, you know, as you, as you say, for me, for you, it was trying to stay in the game.

For me, it was trying to sort of stay in the game and, you know, it’s why one of the main reasons why I set up the podcast and through it, you actually discover so much more because I think. Maybe like you, I was very focused on one part. And injury sort of makes you [00:21:00] step back and sort of look at the bigger picture.

Yeah, definitely. They definitely like opens. I mean, if, if you don’t take the time to open up and to look at, you know, the bigger picture and you, you focus on the minute of your injury. You don’t. Yeah, you don’t get the perspective. And I think that’s a big part of a big part of the recovery process or a successful recovery process rather, you know, is to really do that and to kind of expand your mind around the topic and absorb in the process of recovery and let that journey become the journey.

You know, that’s, it’s a very it’s an important part of it to kind of let yourself go and into that. Don’t fight the process, you know, like let it in somehow. And and really you can make almost anything positive for yourself over time. So, yeah, that’s what, it’s kind of what I came away from it with.

And I’m still, still caught surfing. [00:22:00] And I was told many times I would never walk or never do sport again by, you know, by a lot of doctors. And you just think, you know me, you don’t know me, so I’m going to go back to it. Got it. That’s incredible. As you say, you, you you sort of been traveling over the world pre COVID, let’s say quite a bit sort of from place to place.

Cuba was one of your many interesting trips. What were you doing over there? Yeah, so Cuba was quite a while ago now, but yeah, there’s a few videos on my YouTube channel about that, but I went to Cuba when they opened up the. The tourism to America. And as part of my role you know, within the brands that I ride for and, you know, within the kiteboarding industry, I’ve done quite a bit of like location exploration in terms of kiteboarding development.

Where’s good for kiteboarding, you know, how, [00:23:00] how countries or tourism boards would use sport and kite surfing too. Yeah. Encouraged tourism in their areas. And that was a big part of my role that going to Cuba was to represent kite surfing as a sport in a way. And you know, painting the picture is how you can develop tourism around sports and around an active lifestyle that really can benefit, you know, the area and the country.

And it can be a very positive way to get to it. In in, into your area, you know, you’ve got people coming for interest revolving around nature. They’re all very, they’re very aware of their surroundings. They’re not the tourists that are gonna like destroy the environment or, you know, they’re there to appreciate what’s going on.

And they’re also there to spend money on what they love doing. So it’s not a begrudging. You know, relationship with, with tourism in that, in that respect. So there’s a lot of positive angles to, to sports development. [00:24:00] And I think, you know, many trips I’ve done in the past, including Sri Lanka.

Actually, I went to Sri Lanka in 2005 and when I first went there, Hardly anyone kite surfing, like, and you know, not much going on no tourism. And we found this lagoon in the north of Sri Lanka and I mean, there were a few people kiting there and maybe a few college schools just setting up, but like, you know, maybe three or four people on the water at a time in a village with nothing but fishermen.

And then now skip forward, like. Yeah, well, nearly yeah, 15, 20 years later, it’s one of the most well-known kite spots in the world. It has got like high-end kite surfing setups there and, you know, safaris the golf down the coast on boats. And it’s got a bustling productive, a Western tourism industry. That is Symbian with the local village and the local town.

And, you know, you’ve just got [00:25:00] people coming in for the interest of it. And you’ve got people, you know, villages like hundreds of people, thousands of people living off that source of income. So it’s. I’ve seen the very, very positive side of what kite surfing can be for four countries and people. Yeah. I think when when it sort of comes to it, you know, kite surfing has this sort of incredible LA you know, even got me back here, you know, when I was trying to learn how to kite surf, I won’t go into detail of that experience, but no, it’s got this incredible law where these places.

Could easily sort of set up and it’s just amazed, incredible then a sort of picturesque view to sort of, as you say, to shoot up and down the coast on. Yeah. I mean, it’s a, it’s just an insane sport for exploration now, even around here in the UK. [00:26:00] So much so many good spots for it and so many good opportunities to learn.

I mean, yeah, it’s, it’s a great place to, it’s a great way to experience like everything and, you know, coastal direction, I guess. So I have to say over the years we’ve seen a few sort of probably viral kite surfing videos. Have you ever tried to kite surf a hurricane? Oh yeah, of course. That’s big storms before.

Yeah. Yeah. A hundred mile an hour winds down here on the isle of Wight. Definitely kites after a few hurricanes in the Caribbean. As I’d, haven’t filmed them, but just been out for fun, you know? Yeah. And what is it up in Necker island? I know Richard Branson always very, very keen on his kite surfing where they sort of just lobby you off.

A sort of rock on the side and they just sort of drift round and round and round slowly, too, for about sort of what 30 seconds. [00:27:00] What’s it paragliding or mace with the kite? Yeah. That’s a friend of mine, a friend of mine, Nick Jacobson jumped off the top of Necker island. I’d asked definitely not one that they’re going to do to the average guest that I think I’ve been out to NACA and, and, and sort of Kaiser for the Richard a few times.

And, and yeah, I mean, that one amazing thing about the surfing industry. As it’s very close knit. And there’s a lot of really interesting people that do kite surf. And if you, you know, if you’re really ingrained in the sport, there’s probably not many places you haven’t been with it, you know? So it’s, yeah, there’s a lot of people that love kite surfing out there.

And a lot of amazing things to be done with a kite that’s for sure. Are you planning to push yourself for a new new one? I’m always pushing myself, definitely. One way or another. I think that’s something I realized, you know, over time you need, you need goals. You need to push yourself. You need definitely need motion.

[00:28:00] So I’m always looking for fun videos to make and fun stuff to do. I’ve got my eye on a few of the cliffs down here on the island while they haven’t been done before. So we’ll see. What’s oh, well, we’ll have to follow your little Instagram, please. No, I would say it hasn’t been that long since I’ve got over injury sound not jumping off any clips just yet.

Once I feel the itch again, you know? Yeah. It was suddenly be like, ah, injury. Now I’ve forgotten all about that.

Suddenly CLL, I can do it, I can do it. And I suppose he knew apart from your injury. So there’ve been many police scares on the sort of trips. Cause you know, Right. You do hear sort of big waves getting caught out with the kite. Yeah. Yeah. It’s true. Wave trips. I mean, waves always Andrew. I mean, the ocean is always dangerous.

Every time you do something stupid in the sea, you’ve got to be, you know, you got to have your eyes open, you know, like [00:29:00] she’s a, she’s a cruel mistress. But yeah, we, I did when I nearly drowned in Peru we did a, I did a Chi surfing trip with my dad, actually down the coast of Peru and some of the best waves and best waves in the world break along the coast of Peru.

And and that, and a really long. And I was out there. It there’s only two of us, me and my dad. No one else. And I dropped my kite and the wave took it and I was leashed onto my kite. And before we knew it, I’m just on the water being dragged by the wave. So the wave power and energy is in the kite and I’m there underwater being like sort of hogtied and dragged backwards and it’s just going and going and going and going.

And I’m like, oh my God, this is it’s going on for a long time. And then I’m trying to reach behind my back for the quick release because I’m being dragged too fast. I can’t actually get to it. So. I was luckily enough. I, you know, the, the wave kind of let the kite go and I managed to get up and get a breath before [00:30:00] before really anything too bad happened.

But yeah, you know, things can happen very quickly. Very quickly. You just have to be kind of aware and ready, ready for it, you know? Well, it’s an amazing sport and I suppose anyone sort of listening and still very keen, what’s the sort of, one thing you would recommend for people wanting to get started in kitesurf.

Yeah, so, well, I mean, getting done in class, that was one of the most fun things. I think like what you got to bear in mind that your first contact with the sport will be, you know, a little overwhelming, there’s a lot going on. You’ve got kite, you’ve got a board, you know, there’s a lot to like kind of seemingly process with it.

So the best thing you can do is go to a school, find a local, you know, coach or, or teacher and, and really get some time. Where the education process at the very beginning is, is ingrained in you, you know, like how to rig up your car, how [00:31:00] to, you know, really be safe for yourself because that will stand you in great stead, further down the line when it comes to being independent and like, you know, being able to assess the weather correctly and the wind, like there’s a lot of elements in it that you actually probably wouldn’t consider.

But that’s definitely the way to get into it is, is go to a school or, or, or coach and get them to, you know, invest some time in you to, to kind of get that first contact point. Oh, nice. Nice. They have their own gear as well, and you can trash that rather than trashing your own. So I would a hundred percent recommend trashing someone else’s gear first before you invest, you know?

Yeah. No, that’s always best get in line and then get your own. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, you know, safety elements and community guidelines and things that you need to like, you know, learn is like, when I learned it was. Wild wild west, you know, like you just go down the beach rigor and send it. And there was no one around, there was no, like, [00:32:00] you know, there was nothing, there wasn’t even kite school.

So now the gear is so much easier. So much safer, you know, you’ve got a system in place in schools that really like teach you so that the learning process can be any anywhere between like a week or like even a couple of days, if you really. Just get into it, you know? Yeah. Well, Tom, this has been absolutely awesome to hear about.

There’s a part of the show where we ask five questions to each guest each week. With the first being, what’s the one gadget that you always take with you? It used to be well, okay, so definitely a camera, definitely a camera, but then it’s probably an iPhone these days. So I mean, probably the iPhone is the, is the gadget I would take with me now having just come back from the Western Sahara with nothing, but my iPhone, now I can tell you it’s probably a good, a good, good one gadget to have.

Yeah, it’s a lifesaver. Yeah, but I, I camera a [00:33:00] laptop and a phone and that’s it. So what you need in life, really? Yeah. Yeah. What about your favorite adventure book or travel book? My favorite adventure backs, probably just my diary. I reckon. Just take the diary, write down the diary. So Tom court, the dollar is the tow car I’m working on it.

Yeah, that’s unbelievable. Once in there you’ll have your memoirs. When you’re 70 of this sort of vast encyclopedia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s true. You don’t any really get into the really interesting stories once you get a bit older. I thought I used to have a lot to write about, but definitely got more now that’s for sure.

Why are these sort of adventures important to you? So, I mean, that, that really important to me. I mean, getting yourself out of your comfort zone, pushing for me personally. Getting, yeah, getting myself out of my comfort zone and looking to expand my knowledge, you know, whether that’s meeting different people, seeing different places, a [00:34:00] large part of my education in life, I feel has been through travel through experience, through meeting people and, and through, through sports.

So like for me, I find it it’s a, it’s a personal development thing to me. As much as, as much as the enjoyment of life at the time, it’s, it’s about, you know, really developing yourself and, and, and not letting yourself get too comfortable. I think that’s a big thing, you know, like getting too comfortable for me is, is, is a problem, you know?

And and I think that’s, that’s really important to realize. Yeah. I think someone that was saying yes, Yesterday or this morning, I can’t even remember. It was basically saying that the best things in life always come from uncom uncomfortable situation. No one ever sort of goes, oh my God. The best time happened when we were super comfortable.

Just relaxing. Yeah. Yeah. To achieve a goal or to [00:35:00] drive. Yeah. And I think hardship, hardship, whichever way you look at it, like hardship, flowers, some of the best art, some of the best inspiration, some of the best, you know, feats of human endeavor come from hardship. So I think, you know, not being afraid of putting yourself in a situation that is uncomfortable is, is a big thing.

And you know, when I, you know, having sat at home on the sofa for a long period of time, for the longest period of time I’ve ever done. I now know really the value of, of getting back to yeah. Pushing yourself outside of your compensating. I think it’s so, so valuable for, for me and for, it can be valuable for a lot of people.

Very nice. What about your favorite quote? My favorite quote. Oh, he put me on the spot here. It’s a lot of quotes about isn’t that I think one that’s cropped out recently was a, life’s not about learning to weather, the storm. It’s about learning to dance in the [00:36:00] rain. Yeah, that’s a good one. I like that.

The still might not ever pass that’s the issue. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that meant that somebody just randomly Instagrammed me that not so long ago. And it just, I mean, it’s it’s right, right. I mean the storm doesn’t it doesn’t pass. Life is the storm. I think. Cause the, is the thing that you need to come to terms with.

Yeah. People listening are always keen to travel and go on these sort of grand adventures around the world like yourself. What would you recommend for people wanting to get stuck? I would say, I mean, so I hosted a series of travel trips personally. And I know that there’s a lot of people that do this sort of thing that are sort of adventure based.

But with a coaching element like if, if you, if you’re not comfortable, Traveling on your own or, you know, or you feel [00:37:00] like there’s a, you know, you want to get started with it. I would say something like that is a great way to start, you know, book, burka, a trip with somebody that does it a lot and get some experience, learn from people that do a lot and see how people’s psychologies are.

And it’ll say, once you get the ball rolling with these things, you meet people, you know, you meet people that are also doing it. And before you know, it. You’ve got friends that are traveling and then you’ve got connections and you’ve also then got focused of where to go next with somebody else’s going there or, or whatever.

So, yeah, I mean, yeah, without self-promoting too much check out my slice of life, campus and stuff, but yeah, like, look, look for something like that. And finally, what are you doing now? And how can people follow you in the future? So at the moment, I’m back in the year. Okay. For, for the next month or so I’m doing a display at the south Hampton boat show with flight board, which are these new electric foil boards.

That will be for the most of [00:38:00] September. And there’s also a kite surfing event down here in the UK called the kite surfing our motto, which I’ll be out for a weekend. But yeah, follow me on Instagram at court and the act and yeah, subscribe to my YouTube channel as well. Just Tom Cole Tom Tomko, Kai on YouTube.

And you will you’ll be able to follow along on my various activities and missions. We, I did see you in the press the other day. You’re on that little flight. Yeah. So I did a, there’s another mission that came off the top of my head. I wanted to see if I could commute from the isle of Wight to sand banks, pools, and banks for lunch on a, on an electric foil board on a flight board.

And yeah, I managed to pull it off, like in between a few trips. We yeah, just did 30 miles. Over over water in a suit on an electric foil board and and got to lunch from time. That was pretty good. Pretty sick. Actually did that [00:39:00] C managed to weather the storm? Yeah. It’s still there. Yeah. I got wet and go out at the end.

You have to watch the video, but yeah, no, it was really cool. And it was on the hottest one of the hottest days of the year that we had so far. And yeah, it sort of went all over the press really went to the times and the Telegraph. Yeah, I think, you know, just encouraging people to do things differently and that’s, there’s quite a good you know, innovation element there with yeah.

Eco water use and different ways to enjoy yourself. So, yeah. It’s an interesting one. Yeah. They’re pretty cool. So I have to say, yeah, awesome. Best care. It’s like back country snowboarding on flat water. Just grab it, grab it. And off you go. Yeah, pull the trigger and just send it. And finally, I’m sure everyone is wondering what’s what’s next for Tom?

That’s a difficult one at the moment. I haven’t got anything in the diary I’ve got, I’ve got a free, so that’s the most worrying [00:40:00] thing for me generally is having nothing in the diary. I mean, I’ve got September as planned. Let’s build around here in the UK. But yeah. After that I have nothing, nothing solid, but it might be back to Dominican Republic, maybe even Brazil for the winter season.

And then maybe some time in the Canary islands before coming back to the UK, you know, salmon next year. Very nice. Nice. Well, it could be worse. Could be worse. I mean, let’s see, you don’t know what’s possible. Nice. Nice. Well, Tom, it’s been an absolute pleasure listening to your stories and about your life.

In an interesting one. I had, it’s always interesting. Talk about, about these things. They, they, they stay very much under the surface and less I’m sure. I’m sure there’s a few more stories to come in the future. Yeah, maybe we could sit here for hours. Well, again, thank you so much. No worries. Thank you.

Thanks for the time. And thanks for having me. Well, that is [00:41:00] it for today. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you got something out of it. If you did hit that like button and subscribe, if you haven’t already, and I will see you in the next.

Ash Dykes

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Ash dykes (extreme athlete)

On today’s Podcast, we have Ash Dykes. Ash Dykes is an explorer, extreme athlete, motivational speaker and 3x World First Record Holder.

Ash recently head-lined global news by becoming the first person to hike the entire length of the Yangtze River in China. A 4,000-mile journey that took him 352 days to complete, he faced bears, altitude, wolves, landslides, blizzards and had to send 10 of the 16 team members (that joined him for short stints at different locations) home, due to altitude sickness, fear of wildlife and/or injury.

Today on the podcast, we talk about his life growing up and how he got in these incredible adventures as well as the stories of his trips, been chased by Wolves and alone in the Mongolian Desert. Enjoy!!

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Transcript of our Conversation

Ash Dykes

[00:00:00] Ash Dykes: Hello, and welcome to the modern adventurer podcast coming up, we realized we’re in such a sensitive area that we needed to escape and we needed to walk fast and get out of there cause we were in Shanghai, but the problem was there’s, you know, the China map says it’s chin high. That’s a button that says I’m into that.

And so it was very sensitive and we had to evade the locals because we learned that the locals in their little white felt tense their goods, as amazing as they were super hospitable. And I loved my time with them. We came to learn that we have to do our utmost to avoid them because they would sort of radio to the next girl to the next group until eventually there was signal that they could call the police and the police would be on their way.

It take them seven hours or so to get to us. And they wouldn’t rock upon our tent until three, four o’clock in the morning. Oh, my word, that just sounds unbelievable. And that’s minus the bears, the wolves, the minus 20 degrees Celsius the stove. My next [00:01:00] guest is an adventurer and an extreme athlete. He has pursued some incredible expeditions over the years and has covered a wide range of trips.

He recently made global news by becoming the first person to hike the entire length of the Yeti river in China, 4,000 mile journey that took him 352 days to complete. He faced bears, altitude wolves, landslide, blizzards, you name it to which he had to send 10 out of the 16 team members that joined him for short stints home.

So he had to cover so much ground with all these obstacles in his way today on the podcast, we talk about that trip along with his first big expedition across Mongolia, where in the Gabey desert, it was so isolated with no sound that he says you can actually hear your body. So I am delighted to introduce Ash dykes to the podcast.

Good to be a job. Thanks Robin Lee. I said, absolutely pleasure to have you on, and I cannot [00:02:00] thank you enough. I mean, some of the trips that you’ve done over the years have been absolutely incredible. We’ll get into some of your absolutely epic trips from Mongolia to Madagascar, to China, but probably the best place to start is at the beginning.

Cause you grew up in the Welsh Hills. I say north Wales here. So old Cohen, nice place, you know, quiet place. Not, not so exciting, not a lot of stuff happening, but you’ve got the sea, you’ve got the mountains. It’s a, it’s a good place, especially for the outdoors, you know, Snowden, which I’m sure many of your listeners will know.

It’s probably about 30 to 40 minute drive from where I’m based. So yeah, it’s a good place to be. Well, I mean, it must have been absolutely incredible growing up in that sort of area and, you know, having the space to sort of reign where did this sort of love of adventure sort of come from? It’s a good one.

It’s a good one. I think it’s probably [00:03:00] just being surrounded by nature growing up, but it took a weird turn because in school I was very much the sporty type, not necessarily adventure, so I wouldn’t be necessarily camping. I’d be on the school football team or doing athletics or, or boxing or, you know, I was very active.

I was very competitive. But then, you know, I’d seen photos or like magazines or the internet, like different places around the world. I would, I would hear epic stories of, you know, how people would test themselves for extreme environments and, you know, sort of what they would achieve. Being deemed possible.

I would hear stories from one of my old uncles was with south African and he told me some crazy stories. What went on in, in Zimbabwe. Also my granddad lived in Pakistan for a good 21 years, overstayed his visa by [00:04:00] his and now lives in India. And I think there’s probably a little bit of everything.

Even documentaries, you know, David that’s in Rochelle was on, on TV and I just didn’t want to watch, I want it to be out there amongst it all. And so I guess sort of. Competitive and active side sort of net the sort of curious and wanted to go travel side which led onto me doing these expeditions.

But I, I finished college. I did a two year outdoor course a two year course in outdoor education. It was probably then that I realized I was more of a kinesthetic learner, you know, sort of learning from hands-on practical experience. And I wanted to pursue a more active career active lifestyle where I could learn through getting myself far out there, learning through my mistakes effectively through experience, getting up, trying again, and never trying to make the same mistakes.

[00:05:00] So where, so what was the first one? What was the first one where you decided, right, this is it. This is where I’m going. How did it all start? It was, it was when me and my friend, Matt, we had worked at an, a how many hours to 40 hours a month as lifeguards for a good year and a half solid. We’re very strict with our cash.

Minimize nights out, I sold my cheap little cough or a little bicycle cycle to, and from work. We then eventually set up. Go into China. First, we were in China for two weeks. We then left China for Southeast Asia. And I remember being in Cambodia, you know, me and my friends soaking on the meek on riverbank.

We’d spent way more money than we anticipated. You know, we were 19. So we were just teenagers affectively. And I said, you know, this is all great driving around, but we’re very much on the beaten track. You know, say photos, stories, experiences as all of the rest of the tourists, which was great. You know, we met people from all [00:06:00] over the world, but it’s not what we went traveling for.

You know, we wanted our own unique experiences and an adventure. You know, we didn’t want to be traveling over land on a coach. We want it to, you know, hike or cycle audience and meet the locals, not go to the typical tourist sort of lunch breaks that the cultures would take you. And so, you know, I decided let’s get a bicycle and let’s cycle the entire length of Vietnam and Cambodia, you know, 1,100 plus miles.

We were on a very tight budget. So we had 10 pounds to spend on the bike. Each we spend about two pound, 50 each on a non waterproof tent. We didn’t get no pump, no puncture a packet. There was no helmet. The bike had no gears, no suspension. We had no electronics. We had no lap. It was reckless, you know, but we were again, low budget.

It was sort of foolhardy, but it was that Vietnam cycle. That was the catalyst we would chase by dogs. We [00:07:00] were hit by mopeds. We were dodged by law, lorries and trucks. You know, the bikes broke over 17 times until they just couldn’t hack the mountains. These were bikes made for short distance for pretty much old ladies going to and from work, they weren’t made to feel such a distance, you know, but we really hammered on those bikes and they paid the price and, but we made it, we made after two and a half weeks and I was like, that was in sane.

I found my passion and my love for adventure and I wanted to continue doing it. So I would say that that was the catalyst for sure. Were you happy that you sort of skimmed on the pump and the tires and everything? Yeah, I, you know, I was because it taught us great lessons. But it also brought us closer to the locals.

I remember one time we cycled through the night. You know, the last day we cycled 39 hours continuously all the way through the day through the night, through the following day, over 45 hours with no [00:08:00] sleep. You know, I posted a photo on my Instagram actually the other day where like faces just, you know, bags under my eyes and my skins of mass it’s actually blue because the mosquito spray mixed with the sunscreen we were on a bad day of just noodles is that it was super cheap.

And you know, the times that we got punches, for example, and we didn’t have a puncture packet or bunk, we would literally rock up on like the local sort of community or hurt that’s on the side of the road. And, you know, these, they never really see, we always seem to be awake and they would welcome us in, you know, and so we would get inside, they would feed us up, give us some tea as the guy would like very kindly saw the bicycle and we’d offer them small bit of cash fables and interested.

He just kind of said, enjoy your cycle. We cracked on. So it was really great to, to be pulled aside for an hour or two, or how long, you know, two o’clock in the morning. I remember not being as well. And getting closer with the locals we [00:09:00] were in such remote places. I remember the locals coming over, sent around as was me and Matt were eating on noodles and they were pulling our leg.

You know, we were tied, you know, frustrated. We were hungry, these locals that come around and, you know, the pulling, pulling our hairs and especially on the lakes. And we know it’s not that Vietnamese men don’t have hairs on the legs and stuff like were quite fascinated with the sort of blonde hair they bleach now in the sun, just at all interactions were great.

And if it wasn’t for the bunker back and we might have missed many of those interactions. So it’s interesting. I, I think when you go off the sort of beaten track, those sorts of things happen, people are sort of shocked to see you. And it creates such an amazing experience because I remember when I sort of gained not quite the same, but through America.

And again went very skimpy on certain aspects, like the what was it, the bicycle seat, which. [00:10:00] Turned out to be big, big mistake. If you’re cycling long distances, get a good seat. You suddenly pay the price in pain. And I just remember him like sort of these sort of tiny, tiny towns when I sort of rock up, they’d always be like, what, why are you here?

What, how did you get here? I mean the me mental thing, right? That’s what it’s about. Isn’t it. I love that. I love the human selection and curiosity of getting out there and we interview people. It’s a, that’s probably first and foremost, what really pushed me to do these adventures was, you know, me in the meeting, the locals and just experienced in that country for what it is rather than what the lonely planet says.

It is. For example, you know, we were against that. We didn’t say no lonely planet books. Now let’s make our own. If we, if we rock up, if we choose a bad restaurant to eat. So be it we’ll pay the price. We did many things. But we didn’t want to follow the typical, you know, but the only planet recommends this [00:11:00] place.

So we should go there where we meet lots of other tourists. We were just sort of, yeah, that is helpful. Now I’ve changed. I’ve matured a lot more. I’m not that stupid when it comes to a decent recommendations and I get, if you’re on a gap year for, or even if you’re traveling for a month, you want to visit the best you want to spend your time there, go into the poxy places.

You know, you want to, you want to get the best. And so the lonely planet is good for that, but at that point in time, we were just against it. And, you know, just, just doing our own thing as we went. So I suppose that was the sort of catalyst that you said for your big trip to Mongolia. Not necessarily someone Golia or just okay.

So it was sort of more. More adventures of Mongolia yet. And if I had attended Mongolia at age 19, with the blood coming out of Vietnam, I would have easily died. I would say it was the catalyst to actually seeking adventure fully. You know, after [00:12:00] the Vietnam cycle, we crossed into Thailand where there north of Thailand and a place called PI.

And we crossed illegally into the across the border into main mall fight, a jungle bus, 2010. You know, we were invited by a local to teachers’ sort of jungle survival. And if we can walk a good number of days, we’ll arrive at a Burmese hill tribe community and now teachers how to survive as well.

And it was sorta like berries that act as mosquito repellent. They would teach us how to gather, how to build sort of rafts and Shelties and natural resources, another amazing experience. And that led onto that. Go into Australia and taken on adventures. We were cycling the south of Australia. We were hitchhiking the north after a breakdown.

I was fruit picking, trying to build up the cash. And then Australia was just too expensive. So we moved back to Asia, we just missed it. And we were then trekking the Himalayas with no permit, just sort of avoiding any Pakistan military that we may come [00:13:00] across on the border there. And then money starts to run low, but we had a plan in Wales before we left for traveling which was to gain our scuba dive and qualifications so that we can top up the funds as we travel.

And it was now time to act on that plan. We had already worked in Wales to get ourselves to a certain level within scuba diving. We just need to finish off the courses in Thailand. And then, yeah, for the next two years, I was, I was living out in Thailand as a scuba diving instructor, a more Thai fighter.

I loved it. You know, I probably should have been fully satisfied. It was during those two years that the Vietnam cycle, the Himalayan Trek, the survival with the Burmese hill chart, there were just constant playing on my mind. And I was really hungry for adventure. I was only 21, 22, and I was like, you know, I’m not done yet.

I’m still young. It’s still lots to be done, lots to be seen. And, you know, lots of new ways [00:14:00] to push myself, to see what I’m capable of, but also to, you know, go to countries that I’m completely unfamiliar with to mix and mingle with more locals, you know, so it was sort of all at best that was playing on my mind.

And it’s at that point, Mongolia came to mind, you know, sort of looking through the map, looking for some harsh country that is extreme enough, completely unfamiliar with. And I’d been on the travel route now for two years, teaching tourists, sort of how to scuba dive, tick it off the bucket list. It was a great lifestyle.

I loved it, but I hadn’t come across any, any tourists. And I were, I met thousands at this point that had said that they’ve been all plan on going to Mongolia. And so I’d hear all of the other places that they would go there seems to be this typical sort of route that people, you know, favor to travel, but Mongolia hadn’t had been popped up.

And I was just curious, and it was home to the Alto mountains, to the [00:15:00] Gobi desert, you know, second or third, most sparsely populated country in the world. You’ve got the Eagle hunters in the west. It’s a, it’s a wild, wild place. And my brain was ticking. I was like, imagine doing a 100 mile track instead of the cycle.

Cause when there’s a cycle. Great fun, proper adventure. But if you’re saying when you were on predominantly on a road and whether it’s road, that’s people at there’s people, there’s food, there’s water. So you’re always relatively safe. And so I wanted to do a walk to get me off that even off the road. Oh, it’s, you know, I was, I was willing to sort of rely solely on myself to survive whatever, till rains and wetness systems I was, I was coming across in Mongolia, struck me as one of those harsh countries where I would need to rely solely on myself only coming across locals every week, every other week.

And so, but it quickly jumped up from maybe a 100 mile track in Mongolia to maybe south to north. And so I decided [00:16:00] less walk the entire length. No one wanted to join me. My friend was like, yes, that this you on your own, it’s too dangerous. And it turned into a solo and unsupported track. I didn’t know who was a world first.

I, you know, I wasn’t interested. In the world record, I just wanted to do it cause it was proper adventure. You know, when I started research and gather up as much sort of information and local knowledge as possible and realize I couldn’t find anyone who had done it, I started to expand on the teams. I bought more teams involved to actively search for me as well.

Then we came across this guy who claims to be the first person ever to attempt solo and support Trek, but was evacuated on all three occasions. I think it was just before or just after the half week. You know, this guy was a Navy soldier at desert Explorer had already crossed the Sahara desert. You know, he was, he was a tough guy fully experienced as well.

I think he was late thirties or early forties, and [00:17:00] I was a scuba diver living on at night if would have no military bike on. And I was kinda like, I don’t stand a chance. And so I put Mongolia to the side. I started looking at, you know, more populated countries, safer places to track, or to at least build up my experience.

But then I realized, you know, just cause no one’s found a way to do it, which he hadn’t doesn’t mean it we’ve done that. So I start to really, you know, grind with the train and grind with the logistics and knew it needed proper preparation and like the Vietnam cycle. I only had two, 200 pounds to my name.

I had to move back to north Wales and moved in with my parents. I didn’t even have no. Finance for gym membership. I had my uncle dropped me off at sledgehammer. So all of the training I did for that first was in my backyard, just in the winter, you know, building myself physically and mentally, I’d say it’s 70% mindset, 30% physical.

I was [00:18:00] shit scared. I was terrified as everything. I didn’t know what it would be like being alone. I didn’t know. I’d never faced a pack of wolves before. I’d never been to a desert before. I didn’t know if I, I didn’t know my mentality. I didn’t know if I was the type to cool. Yeah, everything else I had previously done, I, you know, pride myself of certain things like dehydration, sleep deprivation on stop myself and previous adventures.

I’d direct these dangerous ones, but they’d always been with a friend and they’d never really pushed me to them, to my physical limits and my mental limits. And so I was just unsure at the tender age of 22. I was just unsure if I had what it took and that scared me because I started to build hype around it.

You know, nightmares of me just quitting one weekend, like, fuck this, this is not for me. This is terrifying. I can hear pack of wolves, howling, you know, and, and, and getting out of there and quitting. And then, you know, having come back home, people pat me on the back are you tried your best. [00:19:00] And I did not want that.

I was terrified of that too. And So, yeah, I’d say that’s what sort of led me into, into Mongolia. Wow. And so I imagine when you were dropped off in Mongolia, started the trip, knowing that you’ve got all those miles cover on your own for how many days? Like 72 months. Three months. Yeah, it was yes, 78 day try, anticipate to take a hundred days.

But there was just lots of daylight hours, you know, 16 hours of daylight. So I tried to make the most of that and most dude, 78 days. Wow. And so what was the feeling like when you at the start, looking ahead, you must’ve just been. Oh, my word, the Marine in the back of your mind, feeling like he nearly had to be evacuated three times.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I was shit scared, but I tried telling myself that I was ready. [00:20:00] Cause you know, I was trying to hype myself up as much as I could, you know, I’m the guy to deal it and what I’m going to do in this situation or that scenario. But the truth is I just never knew how I would react to any situations that I was about to face because you never know until it’s staring you in the face.

And I remember when I was here in Wales, I remember being scared of the whole idea of Mongolia, but I was sat just in the living room, sort of a cup of tea, belly, full of food shelter, warm, very positive. And I remembered this side to me. I’m going to lose when I’m on the go. Well, the outside Manson space in the snow blizzard or whatever, you know, I’m not going to be this positive year.

I’ve got this. And so I actually left a voice note in my, in my phone and voice memo of sort of positive ne talking to negative me and the Gobi. And I told myself that I would, I would definitely not listen to that voice memo unless I really needed to. [00:21:00] And I did really need to, at one point and I press play and I’m sort of, it’s me giving myself a students or consider about the pros and cons.

What happens if I make it compared to what happens if I don’t make it, you know, career wise, future wise. And so I, you know, got myself to this stop point. I just about managed to scrape in enough finance to make it happen. It was still low, low budget when insurance was invalid because they don’t support any sort of journeys in, in Mongolia.

Cause it’s just so wild and. I was in the outside mountains in a place called Olga. It’s already about three, three and a half thousand meters high. And are there with this 18 stone trailer or 120 kilograms, 260 pounds, you know, same way as probably Tyson fury, you know, a world heavyweight box in the back of the trailer that I was about to load for almost a hundred days over the outside mines across the Gobi desert and 40 plus degrees Celsius [00:22:00] and through the Mongolian step.

So I was, I was daunted and be unbelief, but I was excited to get going. You know, I told myself, break it down day by day. Don’t look at this 78 day magnitude. Just look at, look at the days that I’ve got break it down. Yeah, I, I went for it for people listening. They probably, it’s hard to imagine what the sort of landscape is like.

Can you sort of describe what it’s like being out in the middle of the Gabey desert alone? Well, no one in this sort of hundred mile radius of you. Yeah. So the Gobi was, it was a tough one going to be desert. I remember finishing the outside mountains and I I’d taken a beaten, you know, as an altitude. I was told by the locals, I’m going to be eaten alive by the wolves or eat hand gestures because we can actually communicate my lips have blistered up completely.

They were like bleeding, [00:23:00] sort of the scalps were sticking together. So I’d had to plan them open each morning and just like drinking my ration pack in the morning. And when I would put the pouch back down, there would be a flow of person blood into my Russian. So I was, you know, I was very windswept. I was very cold taking a beat and it was probably slightly dehydrated and I lost a lot of weight put on the trailer over the mountains.

And you know, I got to the Gobi desert for the first time. It doesn’t happen straight away. It’s co it’s quite gradual breaking from the mountains into the desert. It’s like a process of a week walk wise. And I remember being excited by the wounds because I’d faced, you know, the cold temperatures of the outside, but whilst it was warm, I just got a pasted from sand storm after sound storm for a solid week and a half or so.

And all of a sudden would just get in like chat lips, you know, and I was just in a, in a lot of pain, but then it did eventually subside, you know, the weather and it, you know, became calm, you know, little did I realize that that it’s [00:24:00] actually even more dangerous, I’d be facing, you know, a much bigger threat, not only to the expeditions, but to my life.

And sort of, you can imagine the scenes Mongolia is known as the London, maternal blue sky guy, so that the sky is just pure dark blue. For many weeks, there was just not a cloud in sight. The sun was just beating down on 16 hours a day, you know, 40 plus degrees Celsius. The terrain is a mix of soft sand and gravel.

So the gravel was always welcoming because the trailer, it was on wheels, thin wheels. And I was able to the trader over the gravel you know, not great difficulty, but when it came to the soft sand that the ties would sink in the soft sand and I’d have to lean 90 degrees forward and really use both my legs and my arms use it and walk and polls to support the trailer for.

But it’s rugged. You see nothing? I think I went over [00:25:00] eight days without seeing a single human, you know it was still, I came to a point where, yeah, it was so silent and, you know, I remember my logistics manager mentioned him to me before I set off for this year. ’cause I, I said to him, you know, can you imagine how silent it’s going to be in the Gobi?

There’s going to be no noise pollution, no nothing. And he said, well, when you, at that point, you’ll realize that there’s no such thing as silence. Last one, I laughed. And I said, what do you mean? They’ve got panic rooms. They’ve got like silent rooms and stuff. You know, I’m sure it was a torture back in the day.

And he was like, well, when he gets to that point, you’ll know what I mean, say, okay, he didn’t actually tell me, but I did get to that point. And I got to the point where there was no insects. There was no noise. There was no shifting sounds. Cause normally the sand dunes, you can, you know, Hey shit, the sun shifting no wind, no humans, no noise, pollution, nothing.

And I could hear this faint sort of deep humming noise. And I assumed that something coming from my trailer, maybe my water [00:26:00] container. So I left my trailer behind walking a few hundred meters away and I could still hear it. There was nothing on me and the holding my breath and everything took me about 15 minutes to figure it out.

And it clicked, you know, it was at that point, it was so silent that I could actually hear my own body functioning. And that’s what he meant by. There’s no such thing as silence because as long as you’re still functioning and you’re still alive, you will always hear your body ticking over, but you just never hear it because there’s always some sort of noise, whether it’s the, you know, the plumbing, electric wires, or, you know, the wind or insects or rustling somewhere.

I never heard it before that. I’ve never heard it since even my future expeditions, you know? So that sort of puts into context of sort of what the Gobi desert was like vast empty, quiet apart from the occasional sun storms. It was a very wild, very remote, hostile place to be. Wow. God, that just [00:27:00] sounds absolutely amazing.

Like actually hearing your own body function. Is that something you’d be like, ah, do I want to go back and feel it again? Or was it just like, that’s the weirdest experience? Never again, I can’t, I hope I do experience that again in the future, for sure. Whether it’s the Gobi desert or not. And I do remember I was trying not to panic for all of this.

You know, if we’re not seeing humans for so many days, bear in mind, I was still covering a lot of mileage 20 to 30 miles a day and still not see people in eight days. But I remember thinking, you know, don’t panic. This is very rare that you can travel this far in a country. And not see a human. So I remember thinking I may be seeing a little bit daunting or a little bit freaky to me right now, but you know, I might not ever experience this again.

So enjoy, whilst it lasts, did you have a set phone or anything to communicate to the outside world or in the Gobi desert? Were you a hundred percent lane unable to communicate? Yeah. So w with [00:28:00] the, I had like an inReach, so it’s a satellite phone. It’s a text only sort of tracking device if you like, because I needed to track the whole journey and it sends off a ping every five minutes, 24 7 for the 78 days.

So it marks my whole route. Like it checks your speed, it checks your altitude coordinates you name it. And yeah. And so it was text only. So I, because it was also low budget, I think I could only send up matchup three. Three texts no more than three texts per day. Which some days I wouldn’t need to send any text what that included to social media as well.

So there was no phone call. And my evacuation plan, the previous, this guy, I think he had a rush, he made a jokes. I asked him about evacuation. I was like, you know, what do I need to do? And he was like Maria Russia. Because by Mariana Russian or because his wife was Russian, I think he has certain access to the military [00:29:00] and was able to get evacuated.

Well was with myself. It would be text only to my under just ex manager based in the capital city. And if I’m in the middle of the Gobi desert, it would take them at least three to four days to get to me if it got to me on time and follow me. Okay. And if I was to stand on the back end of the snake, for example, three to four days is just too long ago.

So I was very much out there alone, completely solo and, and support. On my pickup, sort of my evacuation plan was, was potentially a four day evacuation plan which, you know, three days without water when you’re dead. And so that was my biggest concern. And that’s what scared me most being alone for that long.

I remember hearing a story of ad Stafford, who, you know, walk the Ammons and river for two and a half years. But he said the worst was actually when he was marooned on an island for 30 days without human contact or [00:30:00] human communication. He said that was far worse because when he was walking in, walk in the Amazon, he had someone there to talk, even if they could barely communicate.

And he was seeing people. What does that mean alone with no communication for so long sort of due to your mental state? I think it will all depend on. That individual, I would say like a lot of people will cope a lot better at being completely alone than others. Others will freak out spending, you know, two hours without their phone, for example, you know, and in the Gobi, I, I, you know, it was, it wasn’t how long was it alone for, for, it must have been eight, nine days.

And then over than that, I was in the desert for five weeks walking through the desert, but it wasn’t five weeks of not coming across anyone, you know, I would come across locals temporarily every now and then. So maybe that did something, just seeing, seeing people. [00:31:00] Otherwise I felt like I was, I remember counting the days and that the breaking it down and the map helps, you know, I’ve only got this many days until I reached the Mongolia step, for example, which would be sort of more lush green grass.

That’d be moved vegetation. There’ll be more wildlife, more locals, more water. And so I think I just kept that as my main goal. And as long as you stay focused and realize that this isn’t forever, it’s only four, five weeks or four weeks or three weeks or whatever you’re working towards. And that’s what I did.

I just kept breaking the goals down and saying at nighttime, tomorrow is another day. And then come on in time. I was like, right tomorrow at the end of today, I’m going to be closer to my main goal than I, than I am right now. And so I think it was just breaking down the goals, staying focused, not losing your head too much, not panicking and getting by day by [00:32:00] day.

Otherwise I, I think, yeah, if you think, if you’re in the Gobi desert within the first day or two, your lips or chart will be buttered by some visits you’re already dehydrated. And then you realize you’ve got five weeks of this. It’s going to get to you psychologically. It will break you down. And it did break me down in many ways, but I just stayed disciplined and, and stuck it out day by day.

And it was all those days that added up to the big five weeks of making it out of the car. So I would think I started because I was on for, you know, stay focused and realized it wasn’t, it wasn’t here forever, but I did almost lose my life. I almost came close to Dinah and to GOBHI, which was, which was terrifying as well.

Well so I came across an uncomf, so we marked on the map confirmed and unconfirmed water sources. And that was mainly in the fall of well, however, some of these Wells might [00:33:00] be locked. They might be dry, they might be stagnant. And I came across an uncom unconfirmed water source. And it, there was no, there was no.

And you would always plan whereby you’ve got enough water to last past the unconfirmed water source and to the confirmed water source, but you’re in the desert and you’re hot. You need fluids. And so I had gone through a lot of my water arrived at that unconfirmed water source realized I had a long way to get to the next confirmed water source, sort of rationing my last remaining dribbles of water.

I was a little bit like, oh shit. I was already in a bad way. I was already delirious. I was already hallucinating. You know, really dehydrated very quickly coming into heat exhaustion, which is usually fatal. And I, my worst, I remember thinking I [00:34:00] have four days and the four days stands out the most because four days I kind of missed the point of backup.

I didn’t believe I could survive five or six days. If my logistics manager came to me, say, if he gets to me, gets to me within four days and it’ll take him in a day or two to get me, you know, to shelter, to get me out of the heat of the Gobi desert. And I just couldn’t see myself some vibing that many days, you know, people, if they get heat exhaustion, they can die with it day.

I’m sure you watched was it the nail would love ward his photographer 24 hours. I think he was dead from heat exhaustion. You know, it can take you and there’s be many stories like that, where it happens fast. And so I was terrified with that prospect. And I remember being out in the Gobi, you know, hallucinating, incomplete, agony, almost feeling my organs, drawing up, hiding under my trailer.

Cause that was the only shots I could find for good an hour at a time. And sort of realizing that if I don’t keep getting up from the train and I’m pushing on, [00:35:00] I’m going to, I’m going to die if I keep resting for too long under the trailer as well. And if I rest under the trailer and rely on my logistics manager to get me in time, and if he does.

So all of the old stat to me getting up and walking out in order to survive. And I remember I couldn’t visualize four days before based who was agonizing. But what I did was, again, something that I use all the time as I broke my goals down, I focused on hundred meters that I could see in front of me.

And, and no more than five minutes under the trailer. And so after five minutes I get up, I shut the trailer to me, you know, dragged out through the soft sound. It felt like 500 kilograms covered a hundred meters, 200 meters. If I was lucky and then rest for another five minutes. And this went on for four days, rationing, I had this big 20 liter water container, and I kind of had about this much at the bottom, maybe an inch or two stuck at the bottom.

And I needed to make that last minute [00:36:00] the four days. And so I still had fluids, but nowhere near enough. And you know, when I eventually got to the community, yeah. Pretty much collapsed. It was a community, it was confirmed. There was water. They took me inside and it took me about eight days to recover.

That’s all right. Pick myself up and crack on, you know, not just physically, but mentally too, you know, the, the desert had scarred me. I was scared of the certain and how quick that can take you. I believe I got very lucky, you know, full extra days in that heat. I dunno how I survive it. It was maybe a little bit of lady luck was on my side.

I like to put it down to the trailer load preparation, but you know, maybe and yeah, I made it, but I booked up the courage again and was able to push on through finishing off the Gobi desert. And then the last remaining three weeks of the Mongolian step to [00:37:00] finish the journey. Wow. And God, that must how did it sort of feel at the end is, and, you know, I loved the last week of the Trek where it was the realization that one of the toughest is now behind me now is just, and then the G in the Mongolian step it’s cooler temperatures.

There’s a lot of storms and scary storms cause it was for cleaning. And I was pulling a metal trailer behind me, you know, but cooler, a lot of water, like just remember just thinking, yes, I passed that there was that section that I guess that the previous guy was evacuated on. And I was just happy that I was able to push on and maybe if I had good evacuation, maybe I would have pressed that button who knows maybe if I didn’t weigh up the alts and realize that my only option is to walk in order to survive.

Maybe I would have, you know, pressed the SOS in. And it got picked up if it was there within a day, you know, who [00:38:00] knows? And so I kind of think I almost needed that needed the lack of funds to have such crappy and such a bad evacuation plan in order to achieve that expedition, perhaps. And I was now I’m walking this last week.

She still had this big smile on my face and crossed that finish line. I was just a happy guy and I couldn’t believe it had been achieved, can believe I’d completed it. And that was my first major sort of Wolf first record. Yeah. That’s an interesting sort of point to sort of say is you, you had such bad constant contingency plans that the idea of something going wrong meant that you really were on your own.

Whereas I imagine if you had a little tracking beaker and they said, oh, we’ll be there in six hours. You could have very easily that temptation to be like, I’m really suffering here. This is terrible. But to know that you have four days, so [00:39:00] it’s almost a matter of life and death for this, you just had to keep, keep pushing forward.

Yeah. Yeah. I almost had that option taken away from me. And the enormous bill that would probably come your way. Yeah, you’re exactly right. I definitely couldn’t afford at that time,

get you a in pretty good stead for your sort of latest expedition that you’ve just done mission yet. I see. Yeah. Can you tell us a bit about that and how that will came to? Yeah, so, you know, after Mongolia, I was, I’m always planning ahead. You know, one step ahead, whilst I was on the Mongolian journey, I was planning gas.

And before I set out for Madagascar, that was my second world record. I was already looking at two expeditions on completion of Madagascar and what this would do. It would [00:40:00] motivate me to complete the expedition. Madagascar was a tougher journey again on Mongolia with just 155 days. I don’t think one of those days was a pleasant days walk.

It was just challenged after after challenge. And so planning the next expedition almost motivated me to get the job done in Madagascar. And I was planning to, I was looking at the Congo river and others looking at the Yangtze river. And I had to look at it at a smaller way to, you know, look what makes sense business wise, finance wise.

And for me, China made most sense. And so I, I, yeah, I took two years. This was very difficult planning and I needed to make many connections on the ground in China. I needed to be on buses for certain organizations I needed to have the government stamp and sign certain documents. I needed to have authority covering my back or at least on my side.

[00:41:00] In order to get food such sensitivities and they even needed to make me a temporary doctor for you. It got insane. It got ridiculous. I think along the journey I was carrying well over 13 stunted signed documents, legal documents from governments, officials, or Ortiz out that let alone the logistical nightmare of actually planning a journey, which most of the locals were saying, you can’t do this.

Or what, what, when you get to this section, how are you going to navigate that? Or the V-shaped valley is, you know, what are you going to do? The bears, the wolves, the bladder, you name it, you name it. And it took two years, but this was my third world record. It was my most ambitious. It was a 4,000 mile journey taken 352 days of pretty much a year to complete walking from the true and scientific source at the Yangtze river, out of a 5,000 meters altitude to better plateau.

So [00:42:00] then following it across east, south, Southeast, Northeast, and then fully east to Shanghai where the Yangtze river pours out into the east China sea. And so at the beginning, you know, it’s just a small trickle higher per altitude that you can step over. And by the end, as it pours into the east China sea, it’s almost 10 miles wide and you’ve got multiple cruise liners sailing along the MC it feeds almost half a billion people goes through major cities along the way.

We were filming for a national geographic documentary called walk in the Yangtze. We made it, or we try to make it one of the most interactive world firsts where we. We literally shared blogs, blogs, live updates, photos, and videos. And then we even opened it up for people to join. We had Chinese celebrities, organizations, brands, memes of public, and it was just a very special journey.

[00:43:00] I loved it. And of course there were environmental angles as there is with every expedition there was with Mongolia was with Madagascar with this Yangtze one, we pointed out with the WWF raising awareness for single plastics single use plastic, sorry, environmental protection, sustainability do a free tool to schools along the way, handing up filtration bottles.

And I’m working with the real unsung heroes, doing their utmost to protect and preserve the unique biodiversity of, of all, all these three countries really trying to Madagascar. But yeah, special journey, special journey for sure. God. So how did that all start? Because Tibet, so quite a sort of what’s the word contentious area, especially in the sort of Chinese region going down, did you have much trouble with that?

Yeah, constant, constant trouble with that. I was pulled in by the police, but five times [00:44:00] one has pulled me over into, to that, into the government offices and questioned questioned me. They were threatening to deport me. And I knew I anticipated all of this. I knew that this was a huge possibility you know, and, and would happen.

That is what the whole two year planning was all about. You know, it was to make sure it was all legit or legal, but also to make sure that I have such good backing that. Your authority is in Tibet would have no choice, but to drop me off exactly where they picked me up. If it wasn’t for the documents and preparation, they would have just got rid of me easy work for them.

And it’s so strict. They don’t care. You know, even if I offered a certain amount of money, you know, they’ve they worked broad pets. These are often they have declined Orlando blue, they’ve canceled all Katy Perry’s sort of concerts across China. Cause she was [00:45:00] wearing a dress that is that is I think the logo on the dress represented a certain sign that was against their religion.

So boom just asked how they don’t care how big you are, how much money you have. They buy the books and. And I had a solid team. Well, many teams are in China and they were shortening, you know, telling me this. And we worked hard and, and, you know, when they took me across the today and were threatening to deport me, it was just a call to the government.

They would speak with the, with the guys and chin high province, and they had no choice, but to, so that they were like, God darn it. But it was great, great preparation, unlike some of the rest, which were very reckless, logistically, very dangerous. This one, I feel I had got down to T you know, I was even able to take out satellite communications, which is heavily illegal.

But again, with the right permission, I wish I was able to as able to take that. And that’s why we were [00:46:00] able to make it so interactive online. Otherwise there’s no way I could have been posted, especially in what Instagram and is banned in China. So that sensitivities, for sure, got to a point where we even are to avoid the locals.

It went from mission yang, C to mission, escape, and evade. We realized we were in such a sensitive area that we needed to escape and we needed to walk fast and get out of that. Because we were in Shanghai, but the problem was, you know, the Chinese, the map says it’s chin high. That’s a button that says I’m into that.

And so it was very sensitive and we had to evade the locals because we learned that the locals in their little white felt tense their goodness, as amazing as they weren’t super hospitable. And I loved my time with them. You came to learn that we have to do our utmost to avoid them. Cause they would sort of radial to the next girl to the next girl, until eventually there was signal that they could call the police and the police would be on their way.

It take them seven hours or so to get to us. And they wouldn’t rock upon our 10 and 2, 3, [00:47:00] 4 o’clock in the morning. You just see it sort of headlights on your tent and you are in the wild and you’re like, shit, here we go again. An absolute nightmare. I had the gun threatening to leave because of the police.

Yeah, we had a lot of issues and it was only LD really stopped when we then got into situations. You’ve got chin high province for the first sort of three to five weeks, and then you’ve got situation and the Yangtze river is a clear border that goes directly south of China. And it separates situation from Tibet.

So as long as you remain on the east side of the river, you you’re absolutely not in Tibet and we could stop worrying. We still have many police encounters, but we could stop worrying about being deported. Oh, my word, that just sounds unbelievable. And that’s minus the bears, the wolves, the minus 20 degrees Celsius, the stove, lizards.

It always [00:48:00] a lot. I was a lot, I think even before we got to the source of the Yangtze river, it took us two attempts to get there. And I was already four members down. My guide got altitude sickness. And three of my film crew, one of them was just shit scared of the bears and just abundant the trip completely.

One of them got altitude sickness and the other one was just hit by the harsh reality of this. Isn’t fun. This is, this is hard work and he just left. And so already, you know, we didn’t even get to day one. We’re talking 352 days before we reached day. Number one, I’m already 14 members down and having to take my guide off the mountains because he’s got altitude sickness regroup in a nearby city.

I say nearby it’s like a whole day or so away. But regroup with a new team and try again, to finally get to the source at the end and see river. Well, how high is the source of the Yangtze river [00:49:00] sources? Just over 5,100 meters. Similar, yeah, Altitude’s aerospace company. Oh, wow. you had enough trouble just before they even started your expedition.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, even four months in, I had lost 10 of the 16 different people that joined me at different science. 10 had to be evacuated or just straight up abandoned the wolves that, you know, fear of wildlife landslides, or the UK photographer who flew out to join me for three weeks.

And he had to leave after six hours and day number one, cause it was a landslide that just, you know, he wasn’t comfortable navigating over. Which was fair enough, you know, he’s a photographer, that’s not his expertise, but that taught me a lot of lessons as well. Like, you know, I kept opening it up. Not yet come and join me.

It will be a wild adventure, but you know, a lot of people’s mindset and the training, they specialize in different things. And sometimes I forget that I’ve been doing this for [00:50:00] a decade now. Yeah. I kind of think, oh yeah, anyone can do it. You know, come and join. It would be great. And I almost forget what I’ve learned or it’s been so gradual that I’ve not really felt like I’ve learned anything, even though I have.

And so when you’re faced by, you know, still buy a pack of wolves when you got a pack of wolves on your tail, or when you’ve got like a landslide and yet one wrong foot foothold in you, you’ve gone you know, kind of, for me in that adversity, I deal with it a lot better. And I’m just like, that’s fine. I just, I just want for, you know, I feel capable and confident with my abilities, but then when there’s someone out there who doesn’t really do this stuff and that face with her, with a landslide and they don’t know if they can navigate over it, cause they haven’t done this before he, you know, he made the right choice and I gave him your options because you can’t, it’s not a game.

It’s not like football or whatever. You can’t motivate your team. So, you know, come on, we can do this because one wrong slip, [00:51:00] their dad that, that falls down. For trying to motivate them to do something that they clearly couldn’t do. So I gave them the two options. We can either navigate it this way or that way.

I said, you know, forget ego, forget pride. It doesn’t belong out here. You know, I need you to be honest and tell me if you can, or can’t manage that and make the right decision. And he looked in and yeah, he was honest and like Yana, I don’t think I can’t. So we, you know, sent him home the other family back at home, but the risks were worth it for, yeah.

I think a lot of people sort of, they sort of have, what’s the word glamorous idea sometimes of what these expeditions can be like, and they sort of imagine it sort of. Quite heavily with rose tinted glasses, let’s say. And suddenly the realities of most of it’s just trudging for 16, 18 hours a day, again and again, seeing some amazing [00:52:00] things, but it is just hard graph again, day after day, day after day.

Yeah. Toenails fallen off blisters, rubs from the rucksack. You know that you’re not eating that day. You’ve got to come soon as you’re not eating that day, you’ve got water. You don’t know where you’re sleeping. You know, you want to try to find some fencing because they’re all bears activity on the hump because it’s tall pore season.

It’s minus 20. So you’re going to have to try to set up on this month or your tent with the guide, take an intern. You’ve got to like literally woman at a time. I’ll go do work on the tent and then I’ll have to escape. Literally start warming my hands up. What’s my guides then working on it and then wait.

And here’s Tibet and his heart. And he lasts one minute before he is, then he ended up his hands and then giving it a crack. And now you’ve got all of this and the niggles and the worries and the doubts and the unexpected things that happen along the way, or people letting you down straight up saying, I’m going, wow.

Okay. So I’m back solo again. So sometimes, you know, I think 70% of that I was alone. [00:53:00] And I think a lot of people joined me, you know, and kind of was see my Instagram and being like, wow, that’s a cool video, beautiful shots. And, you know, I think they were just stung by the harsh reality of, of actually this isn’t as pleasant as it looks on, on the ground of a candy.

Like I’m off. Good luck. I think that’s always the case. It’s a chaise DNA, the beautiful pictures of beautiful mountains, but very rarely shaves the sort of effort that’s gone into getting up to that point. Yeah. And I’m bad at that as well. You know, I remember being. Effectively told off by my speaking agent, Jordan Madagascar, because I’m talking about malaria that I had right before I was held up at gunpoint by the military.

And as I’m talking about what a base and the shit that’s gone wrong, I’m doing it like with a smile on my face. And so it’s about like that. And he’s like, no one gets it. You’re smiling. And you’re laughing. Like people think it’s a doddle. Like [00:54:00] it’s a walk in the park, you know, can you not like fake cry?

No. Cause that’s the positive mindset that you need to, to complete these expeditions in the first place you’ve got to smile. Otherwise you will cry, you know, you gotta laugh. And so to try to portray how difficult the young he was, I guess, I guess there’s lots of people out there who will be able to do it very well.

And I think there’s a lot of people out there who will also exaggerate and I don’t want to do, I don’t want to dramatize, I don’t want to exaggerate And you know, I want to I’m more of a positive guy. I want to show the positives. So if I, if there’s a beautiful sunset, I prefer to show a photo of a beautiful sunset, rather than all of my toenails hanging off my toes.

Even though that photo of my toenails hanging off my toes would show the real light of what the expedition is about, you know, but I don’t know. Maybe I’ll just start sharing some dark times with the [00:55:00] expeditions in the future. Did you come into sort of contact with the bears and wolves? Because I imagine people listening might sort of think, oh my God you know, you feel stalked by bears or wolves.

I mean, how was that? I mean, it sounds horrific because if, if some, most of it quite a lot of your crew Bailey left right. And center, it sounds like probably what you’ve just said. It sounded like, oh yeah, they were just that. I actually, it probably was quite Harry. Oh, yeah, it was it was never you know, before my two film crew, when this is about three days before we made it to the source of the Yangtze, we were camping in this remote location.

And we saw a local and the local came right over to a campsite and he said, I saw a bear right where you’re camping this morning. So as little stuff like that, I think the locals played a part. [00:56:00] In really terrifying and you could see the footprints, you could tell that this had been there that morning.

And we were about to camp there that night. You know, it was pretty freaky, but kind of, I knew in our big numbers, you know, we had a horse with us. There was no three of us we’ll be okay. But, but still, you know, it was cold. It was apart minus 10 degree, that degree Celsius that night pretty chilly. They woke up the next morning and that was a, you know, they were like, we’re not ready for this.

It’s too cold. You know, we’ve not even been tracking yet. And we’re already being warned about the bears and, and they went. I kind of, I kind of started the journey with a healthy mindset of the bears are going to leave me alone. If I leave them at them, no, they don’t want anything to do with me. But the locals Katz Helen goes and show because otherwise, and I, I do always believe there is no better knowledge than local knowledge.

And I do listen to them. They live there, they face these [00:57:00] struggles on a daily basis. And I would try to ignore, but they said, you know, and I didn’t have any weaponry. I had an air horn and a whistle. And you know, you’re supposed to blow the whistle so that the bears know that you come in so they can make themselves scarce.

Cause I don’t, they never really want to attack you for food. What will happen is you. Walk up on them by accident. They weren’t aware that you were coming. You didn’t, you know, you get to a top of the hill and there’s a bear. It freaks out it’s going to attack you because it’s panicking. Self-defense almost however there’s a particular season or season, which is effectively like hibernation.

And that’s the season. You don’t want to be up at the mountains up, but due to the two and a half month delay that I had, I was up in the mountains during the tour policies. And so the locals are like, this is, this is stupid. What you’re doing, you’re here at the wrong time. And Jose, I know, I know that, but you know, this is the only time before the window closes in and it drops to minus [00:58:00] 40 degrees Celsius.

So I’m trying to get off the mountains as fast as I could. And they will show me photos of bear attacks. People that have been more by bears, they will show me videos of bears coming into communities and killing families, chasing people up trucks. I posted one on my Instagram as well, actually. And so once you see this, and one of the locals that we were with said that he had to lock himself in his, and this wasn’t a good, this was an actual concrete hot, and he had a steel door and this Tibet and brown bay walked straight past this to better must’ve was scratching his steel door for an hour.

And I’m like, I’m in at 10. So what it is, they’re coming off the mountains because it’s too cold for them. And they’re looking for those extra calories before they go into hibernation. So that’s the season you want to avoid because they’re going to be on the search for food. And so all of this was happening.

We were seeing barefoot prints and, you know, we were gifted nice by the locals saying that there’s been an attack in the village, you know, [00:59:00] two days hike from, from here. And, you know, each night that I’m in my tent, I’m working it, you know, making sure that I’ve got no food, neighboring 10, making sure I’m eating away from my tenant.

I’m that plays a huge part. You’re not doing anything to the bear. You’re not doing anything. And that’s all I kept thinking of if that walks upon like 10. What am I going to do to a big hungry brown bear? And then you’ve got the wolves as well. And the wolves didn’t phase me as much. They’re not like the Mongolian gray walls, you know, the ball’s in Mongolia that big these are on that well sized, but they do Roman PACS.

And it’s funny because we actually filmed this and we’ve got it. It’s an ad on the Nat geo documentary, but we could, we film these Tibetan guys trying to warn us of something, trying to tell us, but we didn’t really know what they were saying. Anyway, we just kind of said, yeah, thank you. Buh-bye. And we carried on walking for the next two days.

We were followed by a pack of wolves and they were only have a really on one [01:00:00] side of the mountain following us for two days. They usually come a lot more distance than us, and they were certainly scouting us out, looking for any injuries, looking at limping and looking for a right time to approach as closely.

And anyway, they disappeared after two days, no biggie. We cracked on. And you know, that footage that we filmed at the local was sent back to my Beijing team, my production team. And one of the girls going through the footage speaks to that. And then she called us up, well, she called me up and said, you know, you have no idea what to say.

And I was like, no, clearly not. She was like, well, he said down that valley, there only yesterday, a local lady was killed by a pack of wolves avoid going down there and we were there. Oh, okay. Thank you. Bye-bye we carried on walking down that valley. And that’s what he was trying to warn us. So whether it was the same pack that killed that lady or not, I’m not sure.

But I would have thought so, and that’s quite eerie and I’m kind of glad, I didn’t know. And so the walls weren’t [01:01:00] as big of an issue. Cause I think there were definitely ways that we could scare them off, but say that there was a local that had recently been eaten. Then, you know, you just know.

That’s just sounds absolutely horrific. I’d say that, that trip to just, just under, just over a year, just under yeah, 352 days in total. It wasn’t 352 days of solid walking. You know, that were times in communities where I really want it to soak up their way, their way of life. I didn’t want to make it just about walking every day.

And you know, it wasn’t a speed record. It was a world first. I wanted to gain as much local knowledge and I want it to film and, and capture them. Cause I wanted the documentary to be not about one man in his mission. I wanted it to be about the protection of the environment, the locals, their way of life, their views, their opinions, their sort of local [01:02:00] delicacies.

And I think we done a great job of portraying that even the older generation and their sort of old traditions dine out on what they think of the younger generation and modern day technology and whatnot and vice versa. So I would stop off at cities along the way too, and tried to do as much as I could and meet as many people as I can.

And so, yeah, and we would do presentations and I was working with the WWF and it was a great journey. And it was like split up into two, the first six months I closed off, I say, I stopped people, people from joining, it was just too dangerous. So it was very wild. It was very survival based, but it was wonderful.

Lots of locals sort of live in their weird light, high up in the mountains. And then the second, six months almost felt like a different expedition. It was now hotter. There was more vegetation, there were major cities. I was coming across. We were able to open it up. So it was really interactive. Which was, which was great.

Part of that journey sort of out of that sort of year. What was the [01:03:00] one thing walking across walk, basically walking across China. Did you learn, do you fell? What was the one thing you sort of took away from it? How big, vast and diverse the country is? It felt like I walked through multiple different country.

You know, we’re talking up on the Tibetan plateau. It was minus 20, it was high mountain peaks, snowy conditions, bears, and wolves. But then down south of China, still on the Yangtze river, it’s really tropical. It’s like you in Thailand, you’ve got, you’ve traded your bears and wolves for your snakes and spiders.

You’ve got your plant plantations, your vegetation, you’ve got your spicy food now, not your high carb, horrific sort of Noma diet. And then, you know, you keep walking again and you’ve got more urban life, city life, and it’s just always forever treat change. Even the dialect saying, you know, as learning a little bit of Mandarin, but it was almost no, [01:04:00] no help at all because the dialects kept changing almost every week.

There’d be a new dialect which was insane. And so I would say, yeah, it was just how incredible the locals are, how misunderstood China. How wild it is when you think of China, you think of the big cities, but for a good six months, I was in the wilderness is a very wild, wild place. And you know, they’re doing a lot, the news doesn’t talk about it, but they’re doing a lot of the biggest polluter, of course, you know, but they, they’re doing a lot to combat that.

They done a plastic bag ban. They ban fishing from the Yangtze river deaths, throwing up solar panels and wind farms at a huge rate. They sent like 19,000 soldiers out to plant trees, you know, rapidly sort of fighting climate change as well. So I learned a lot along [01:05:00] the way and yeah, I love it.

I love it as a place I could, you know, I hope to be more, more adventurous because although I’ve done 4,000 miles, there’s so much, it’s a big country. Wow. It just sounds absolutely incredible. And as you say, you went through such incredible diverse landscapes and culture along the way, and it just sounds like, as you say, quite quite the adventure.

Yeah, yeah, man. It was wild. It was so good. So good. I loved it. And I suppose I imagine people are listening, but you you’ve put yourself in quite a lot of difficult situations and you, you sort of have the perseverance to sort of push through to the end where a lot of people sort of give up. What do you think it is in the back of your head that always keeps you going?

I think there’s multiple things that keep me going. I think it’s, you know, one of them is that I [01:06:00] visualized the whole sort of group you know, I’m a big believer in visualization. But when I talk about visualizing, what a lot of people do is they’ll visualize the positives. Now visualize the end, which is great.

You know, it’s still, it’s still important. But what I try to do is visualize the bad shit that’s going to happen, you know, visualize all the worst case scenarios and so that when they do occur, it doesn’t come by surprise or by shock. So it doesn’t lead me into panic. It leads me to believe that I expected it.

So just, just tackle it. And so I may be able to tackle challenges a little bit better with the fact that I pre-visualize them, if you like. I think it’s that. I think another one is sort of, I shout about it. I tell the world what I’m going to do. And the last thing that I want to do is fail at it, come back home and have people in the line of tapped me on the shoulder.

You’re trying to do. And they don’t don’t want that. And the third is I believe each and every challenge [01:07:00] does you learn from that you learn so much about yourself. And whether that’s, you know, a team expedition in Madagascar, where I had a guide and I’m learning more about myself, you know, working as a team and how to be better leader or whether that’s completely solo and how to sort of manage my mood and how to manage decision-making and how to motivate myself.

I learned so much on these trips that even the hardships where I’m, when I asked myself, what on earth am I doing? I know that if I continue, I’m going to learn so much about how I continued, why I continued on the rewards would be much greater rather than asking myself, what am I doing? That’s just stop.

And then quitting. And then coming home thinking I would still be out there, you know, an extra 200 miles further than where I was. And so I think it’s multiple different things. And I know that people that have gone through fighting through much worse. And so [01:08:00] that’s always inspiring to know that, you know, much, much great things have been achieved, much, many more people doing far more difficult things.

And so that plays a part on the mindset too. Yeah, I think, I think that’s very true. Very true. Ashley. It’s been absolutely incredible hearing your stories. And I, there’s a part of the show where we asked the same five questions to each guest each week. So the first is what’s the one gadget that you always take with you.

It’s the water to go filtration bottle. So it’s this bowl. So effectively on the mission Yangtze by carrying this one bottle, that’s got a built-in filter. It gets rid of like 99.9% of all contaminants and bacteria. By using that one bowl that stopped me from using almost 1,500 half liter single use plastic bottles.

So it’s good for the environment. And it also stops you from using the chlorine tablets, [01:09:00] but also you don’t need to boil the water as well. And so you can literally just scoop up any water. I think I have drunken for, I have jumped through like a puddle on a dirt track. That vehicles go down. So a mud puddle scooped it up, you know, a scoop of the little rocks and mud as well.

And I was able to filter out the water that I needed during that time. And so that’s one thing that I’m always taken with me. Wow. Yeah. It’s very useful. That little thing. What about your favorite adventure or travel book? I’m not a big reader, you know, I’m not a big reader. I don’t, I wouldn’t say I have one, but I would say my favorite book or two of them is sapiens and the secret law of attraction.

I have heard that book, he’s at, by, I forgot who it was by. [01:10:00] It is years ago that I read it and I just loved it. And I’m like, yes, that’s the one. So homo sapiens and yeah, the secret. Okay. The secret law of attraction or the secret. The secret is the main title. And then the subtitle is, is the law of it.

Okay. Ah, I’ll check that one out. Why, why are adventures important to you? I think for me, it’s, you’re kind of feeding your curiosity and curiosity covers absolutely everything. Every human is curious to some extent. And for me getting out, exploring the world, you know, in this one life that we have meeting different people, I learned from so many people along the way.

So I can’t say, I said, I didn’t have no military background in order to learn how to survive. And I’m no expert by all means in survival, but I have survived on my journeys and that’s probably really thanks to the people and [01:11:00] the locals that I’ve met that shared their knowledge with me. And so I’ve learned a lot about the world, a lot about people that I meet along the way, a lot about my, a lot about myself, that I.

Bring back, you know, to civilization, to the corporate world, you know, the whole breaking goals down the whole, we can’t always be motivated, but we can be disciplined. And the whole realization that we are so much more capable than we give ourselves credit for. So for me, adventure is everything and I really do get everything for, from adventure.

Yeah. It’s very true. It’s just, it just brings so much more to life. Yeah. What about your favorite quote or motivational quote? I would say it’s is the biggest danger in life is not doing what you want to do now in the bet that you can buy yourself the freedom to do it later. I think that one is a lot of people do it.

A lot of people sort of, I can do that later or work [01:12:00] hard now save up the finance. And when I’m retired and I travel the world, you know, you’re never guaranteed tomorrow. And even if you. Your whole mindset has changed. Like if I was to leave traveling for the first time now at age 30, instead of when I was age 19, there’s certain things that I just wouldn’t be asked about now, you know crossing borders illegally.

Wouldn’t, you know, I wouldn’t be doing that now. It’d be too reckless go and venturing into a jungle with a madman, with a machete and a bandana around his head. I would be thinking, well, that sounds suicidal. But when I was 19, I did it. And that, you know, I was able to get so much from that. And so, you know, when you’re, if you retire, let’s say age 50, 55, you’re not going to be honest about doing the world’s highest bungee jump.

You know, your whole mindset will change. That’s why I do say, yeah, I, I love that saying the biggest danger in life is not doing what you want to do now in the bet that you can buy yourself the freedom to do it later. Yeah. I think that was a really interesting Ted talk. And the guy speaking was talking about [01:13:00] how.

It was basically along the lines of that quite. And he sort of said, you know, when we were younger, I dad wanted to retire at 55 and used to get up before we got up and be home late. And we’d always be like, yeah, . And then he had a heart attack when he was like two years away from retiring. And as you say, I think that quite sort of rings so true to so many people.

Hmm. Yeah. People listening are always keen to travel and go on these sort of grand adventures for themselves. What’s the one thing you would recommend for people wanting to get started? I would say I would say don’t over plan and don’t overcomplicate. I think the biggest sort of failing to people, planning and organizing travel is they bombard themselves with too much info with too many things that they think they need.

When the most important thing is just taking the first step. Like [01:14:00] now with my expeditions, there’s an awful lot of planning because it is a matter of life and death. But when I look towards school towards my earlier trips, you know, for example, me and Matt soaking on the when we made the decision to cycle Vietnam, when the cycle and the next day we had no kit, then within a day, we went to having the kit and cycling, no map, no puncture pack, as I mentioned nothing.

And I think that’s the way to do it because that changed everything. If then we really start to plan it, like, okay, where can we buy a pump? Where can we get this? Or, you know, let’s go to some sort of library and purchase a map. And yeah, it would a delayed time. And by delaying it, our mindset would have changed and we would have come up with thought of a different idea, or we would have just been like, oh, this is too much to deal with for you.

It’d be fun, but now it’s not fun, so let’s not do it. And so I, my biggest recommended recommendation is just, just do it. Don’t hold back. Don’t over-plan just get it done. Amazing. Finally, what are you doing now? And how can people follow you? In the future. [01:15:00] Yeah. So I am still planning. I still see this as just the beginning.

Mission Yangtze was the warmup. But we all were working on more projects working with TV, the teams sort of expanding. So it’s very exciting times right now. I’m still training and yeah, if you want to find out more, we’re interested in, in following them on the Instagram, which is just Ash dikes as the website, Twitter, YouTube.

And yeah. Hope to announce what’s next too. So we have to wait three.

Well, actually it’s been an absolutely pleasure listening to your stories and questions. They were John. Appreciate that. Yeah, no worries. And I cannot thank you enough for coming on today. Really, really, really, really interesting. And we’ll take it easy. Appreciate that, mate. All the best. Well, that is it for today.

Thank you so much for listening and I hope you got something out of it. If you did hit that like button [01:16:00] and subscribe, if you haven’t already, and I will see you in the next video.

Megan Hine

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Megan Hine (Survivalist)

On today’s Podcast, we have Megan Hine. Megan is a survival consultant, expedition leader, and producer. Her vast wealth of experience and knowledge, gained from leading hundreds of trips and expeditions, consulting for TV survival and adventure shows across the globe, enables her to organise unique experiences for clients in remote and wild places.
Today on the podcast, we talk about her life growing up and how she got into TV—working with different celebrities and the stories along the way. Megan Hine talks about her near-death experiences, from been shot at by tribesmen to being hunted by the Mexcian drugs cartel in the mountains.

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Transcript of our Conversation

Megan Hine

[00:00:00] Megan Hine: And like, I was just, just taking a picture and suddenly this like bullet hit the sand right next to me and kind of exploded. I was, you know, first thing that goes through your head is like, shit, I’m being shot here. So it’s a kind of dived into this little cave. And it was bullets going off all over the cliff around me.

And yeah, it was pretty, pretty terrifying in the moment. My next guest is a survivalist and adventure consultant. She has done some incredible work over the year. Working with TV stars like bear Grylls or man versus the wild. Along with another host of stars. She has some incredible stories to tell on the podcast today, from working with Rangers in Kenya to be shut out by tradesman.

And today on the podcast, we talk about her life growing up and how she got into this amazing line of work. So I am delighted to introduce Megan Hein to the podcast. Thanks for having me only got back to you after ignoring your email. [00:01:00] Well, it’s very kind and I can’t thank you enough for coming on. I I’m really excited to sort of get into this because you’re a survival survivor.

And you probably have so many stories to cover, and I’m sure we can’t get quite three of them all on the podcast, but for people listening, who don’t know you, probably the best place to start is at the beginning and how you became a sort of survivor. Expert in the sort of growing up and what sort of, how you got into it.

Yeah. So, yeah, so I’m basically a wilderness guide, a survivalist and producer on some of the biggest adventure shows on TV, which basically means I get to look after the safety of high-profile individuals and film crews and make them look epic on TV, come up with the content. So it’s quite a, quite a mixed bag, really, of what I do.

I suppose. Yeah, it’s something that I’ve always done. [00:02:00] Like my I was very, very fortunate that all my family holidays, when I was growing up were into the mountains, my dad was a geologist originally. So we spent a lot of time when I was a kid looking for fossils and heading into the mountains to go and look at rocks and things, gap, place a personal with them.

So. Yeah. I had like an amazing childhood, really kind of quite a feral. Every, every summer we’d be off for like weeks on end in this little caravan. I’m one of four. So it was like six of us in this tiny little caravan having branches all over the UK. So I think it was very, very fortunate. I was very involved with like the military cadets as well.

And through that I was able to. Yeah, well, hands-on most loads and loads of adventurous training. So like winter climbing in Scotland, whitewater kayaking, all of these amazing experiences, which kind of really set me on my path to where I am today. Oh, amazing. So actually bear Grylls is a complete drip and it’s all year.

[00:03:00] Well, I suppose my career is based on discretion to be quite diplomatic about these things now, but I know I’ve been working with bear actually for wealth about 14 years now. I kind of, I think I kind of fell into the TV side of things. Picked up quite random array of qualifications and skills.

So like my career originally was very much focused on the mountains. I was like, absolutely obsessed with rock climbing and mountaineering and skiing and things. And that was where my focus of my career was on. And then I ended up doing a, like apprenticeship in bushcraft and survival. It just seemed like a, quite a cool thing to do.

And I spent three years doing that and then sort of leading expeditions, like very much anthropological based expeditions. And certainly I was going off to jungles and deserts and all of this and this, this was in my like late teens, early twenties. And I was working with like some of the most [00:04:00] amazing people, like jungle warfare specialists and mountain guides and all these apps and incredible people and kind of got this real random lately sort of load of experience of kind of like stunt rigging through to like expedition leading through to kind of the medical side of things.

And then at some point, I got contacted. I was working for a bushcraft company leading expeditions for them. And they would, they just been asked to do the survival consultancy for the original bad girls, man vs wild shows. And they wanted to build a team and they needed somebody who could rake the stunts.

So they invited me along to, to do that. And yeah, this was like 14 years ago now. And then I kind of stuck and I think they relate the TV production companies realized that it was actually cheaper to employ. One person who could do like the survival and the rigging and looking after people rather than employing one person for each.

Amazing. So I, what I, what I [00:05:00] think so interesting is the sort of why, and the sort of psychology, because you put yourself under enormous stress is in the wild and especially you who sort of well-trained in it. How do you think sort of the people adapt in those situations? So this is a really fascinating question.

And I spent the past 20 years, like looking after people in some pretty extreme remote wilderness environments. And I think we completely kind of underestimate the benefits and the effects of. Spending time in nature. And I think like the therapeutic benefits of spending time outside are absolutely massive.

And this is just, you know, this isn’t necessarily going and, you know, climbing Everest or, you know, going and surviving in the Amazon rainforest or wherever it is, it’s literally just going out into nature. But I think the extreme end of that is, you know, [00:06:00] is the. The effects that I’ve seen on the people that I’ve guided, because typically attend to be in very remote and what could be considered quite extreme environments.

And they it’s so powerful, like taking people into these environments and seeing it. I see it time and time again, like the hundreds, probably thousands of people that I’ve taken into into these places. And. I’ve literally at times dropped people into these environments and been dropped by myself as well with like, with very, very little with you.

So like a knife and a machete or, you know, medical pack or something just in case the shit hits the fan and things go downhill. And it’s just incredible. To see how people step up in those situations when the consequences are severe. It’s amazing. Like how strong and how resilient we really are.

And I think this is something like resilience has been kind of thrown around at the moment was a word we hear a lot and it kind of, it seems, sounds [00:07:00] like quite a happy place and all of this stuff, but like resilience is doing whatever it takes to survive. And we are all resilient. Like every single one of us, our bodies are fighting for survival all the time.

Every cell in our body is resilient. It wants to survive. We want to survive. And we put ourselves into these situations and it’s like, really at these extremes, it’s where I see people kind of step into their own or fall apart. And that is what I find incredibly fascinating is like, what is the difference between those that don’t just survive, but thrive.

Under pressure and in these environments and those that kind of fall apart and often those that fall apart are those that society wouldn’t expect to. And those that do really well and thrive are the ones that often like for like women and children, for example, that, you know, society’s kind of got used to assuming that are weaker emotionally.

And it’s just incredible seeing people come into their own. And I think that the power of [00:08:00] adventure, the power of actually going and spending time in these. Environments and pushing us. And this is I don’t encourage people just to randomly go off and step out of their comfort zone. You know, the way that I work and, you know, this is the way the power of being on like a guided adventure or having somebody with you.

She knows what they’re doing is that you can step outside of your comfort zone within freeze on my comfort zone. So my comfort zone, because just because I’ve spent so much time in these environments is going to be much bigger than the average person’s comfort zone in that environment. So within my comfort zone, they can step out of this.

And that is incredibly empowering for that person. And it boosts confidence. It brings people together again as well, because I think there’s so many things that we’ve lost in the way that we live today. I’m one of those being connection connection with other people. We live very isolated lives and we’ve definitely seen that throughout the pandemic connection with the [00:09:00] natural world, you know, we’ve become so removed from that and connection with ourselves.

We’ve created all these incredible ways to cope. B, our priorities of survival are basic human needs, like nutrition, water shelter, all of these things. I sleep as well by creating screens, by creating stimulants. All of these things were absolutely amazing. Being able to create these things to kind of beat our basic human needs, but.

By doing that we’ve become quite disconnected. So going back into these places and really kind of stripping away like the modern trappings and going back to the very vulnerable human beings that we are underneath, it all is, is incredibly powerful. Where do you think sort of resilience is taught?

Because I imagine some people. Listening to the podcast might think, oh, you’re just born with it. But I, I sort of feel it’s something that is very much easily sort of channeled over years of putting yourself into these harsh environment. [00:10:00] Yeah. So I think resilience is something that we’re all born with the potential for, for sure.

Resilience tends to come with exposure to challenge and overcoming that challenge. Which I think is why I’m an ambassador for the scout organization. And I think this is where, like, where, what we’ve seen, like with the Scouts coming out the back. Of a lockdown in the pandemic is actually really fascinating because they have a program called skills for life, which is about encouraging young people to have as many different experiences and different challenges as possible in their lives.

You know, from learning skills, with like music, from getting out there in the community and interacting sports, adventure, all of these different ways that we can challenge ourselves when we’re younger. It can also come from challenges such as traumatic experiences as well. But then, you know, in that term, it’s like we kind of have almost have breaking points with those experiences as well.

So when we experienced [00:11:00] traumatic. Trauma. We have to, you know, there can be a breaking point that, which then, you know, sometimes needs external help Dan, to kind of be able to manage that and then be able to use that experience as a growth into kind of stepping back into kind of into resilience. But there are different traits that make it resilience and.

I’ve been doing this sort of topic. I’m really fascinating and doing a lot of research into at the moment. And there’s a lot of there’s various traits that make up resilience and we may be operating with some of those traits being a higher level than others. And I think when they’re all imbalanced, that’s when we kind of find harmony in our lives.

Do you think sort of fare as well has something to do with it in terms of. In terms of resilience of sort of pushing yourself forward. If you don’t have the fear of what’s ahead, you sort of are more managed in these sort of situations. It’s more manageable, sorry. In these situations. Yeah, fear. Fear is a fascinating [00:12:00] topic.

And it’s a question. So a couple of years ago possibly as I suppose, been working on this project, it’s been working with like anti-poaching Rangers on those, like a long-term. So they go and do sort of six months train the trainer. If you like getting these anti-poaching units. Sort of the ranges from these anti-poaching units across Africa and training them up in various skills.

One of those skills that started being promoted a couple of years ago was was resilience training. And I went along with another guy to help out with that. And it was really fascinating taking people who are literally putting their lives on the line often on a weekly basis, they’re involved in firefights and things.

And. Talking to them about fear and what fear is, and then learning to manage it. Because fear is incredible. Like the way that I see it is in our brains have kind of got to creatures that kind of live in there. You’ve got [00:13:00] the human brain, which is logic and reasoning and. You’ve got like the, the animal brain in there as well.

Which is a very primal as the limbic system is very primal. It’s the hypothalamus, the amygdala. And it’s it, but it’s incredibly powerful. It’s like the oldest part of our brain and its primary role is to keep us safe. So it’s continually scanning the environment around us for any threats to us.

And as soon as it spots any threats, however, minor, it will trigger this flooding of chemicals and hormones through our system which readies us for the fight flight freeze response and the stress response that leads on from that. The human brain hovers is much, it’s a much newer. Part of our brain, but it’s much, it’s much, much slower because it’s so powerful.

It takes a huge amount of energy to run it. So it takes quite a long time to kind of get that part of our brain switched on. Whereas like, you know, [00:14:00] the the animal part is the bit that snatches the wine bot Luff out of the air as it’s falling down. Whereas before the human brain has been like, oh my wine and gone for that.

So it’s, it’s much, much slower. Without fear. And without that response triggering, like we wouldn’t survive very long as a species or we wouldn’t vary or as individuals because you wouldn’t understand risk. So stepping out in front of a car, you wouldn’t understand the danger and you’d get squashed.

So we need that fear, but then it’s what we do with it when it’s triggered is what counts. So it’s like, how can you control that? So you’ve got a split second that, to be able to get the human part of your brain, re-engaged. And this is what we were doing with the Rangers is we were using the perception of risk.

So we were using height you know, with rock climbing techniques and then for artists and things to trigger the fear response, and then get them to be able to. See in themselves, how it [00:15:00] worked, how it was triggered and then how to talk themselves back down again. And it’s a really powerful tool for kind of exploring your own resilience and fear and fear as a survival mechanism.

It’s absolutely amazing. But it shouldn’t be controlling. Yeah. I always, I mean, yeah, we sort of touched upon it very briefly earlier before the podcast started, but. I sort of feel like our brains are sort of designed to make us lazy, designed to make us comfortable. And you have to sort of really force yourself out of it because the, you know, about you, but I always consider myself one of the laziest people.

And I thought, I think that’s because comfort is so easy. And so you’re trying to sort of force it. And so you use sunny try and put yourself in difficult situations to sort of grow, to try and challenge us. Yeah, I would say just, just going back to like survive. So it’s not laziness. It’s like survival is all about conservation of energy.

So it’s like [00:16:00] all, all animals. You just don’t matter whether it’s an elephant, a human dog, cat, you know, whatever it is. It’s all of our life is all about like conservation of energy because. When going back to our kind of caveman cave women, ancestors, which is kind of where our evolution sort of kind of slowed down a lot For them, you know, food wasn’t readily available and energy sources weren’t readily available.

So everything we evolved to not expend more energy than we’re getting in. So over the winters, although we don’t hibernate as such, we do have chemical releases and stuff in our. Brains and in our bodies to cut, to slow us down. So that we’re not running around in a time, which for our ancestors would have been very sparse that kind of holds us in place.

So the way I see it is like, it’s not, it’s not laziness. It’s conservation of energy. And I see this, I’ve seen this in myself when I’ve been dropped into [00:17:00] situations where, you know, just a knife or a machete for like weeks on end into jungles and deserts to survive. Everything in you is trying to hold you still to conserve the energy.

This is why like real survival shows a boring, because people just want to sit and do nothing because they’re trying to conserve energy. But this is where that human part of the brain is so powerful because. In our everyday lives, because we’ve got all the resources we need on tap. We can override that with that human part of the brain and be like, yeah.

Okay, well, look, I have eaten. I have got my food here. I do need to go for a run now and actually burn some calories. Yeah, it is. So, so sort of fascinating. And also how years of evolution has sort of pushed us. I, you know, it’s like, why are we going to a restaurant? And we always want to be facing out because that’s a.

Human instinct that we like to sort of view our surroundings because we don’t want to have something jumpers, jump us. Oh, what [00:18:00] jumped from behind us? We always like to be against the wall looking out, whereas as you say, other animals are completely different. And but yeah. Sorry, going back to sort of the was it working in Africa?

Did you have sort of hostile situations when you were training these what do you call that? Not put ranges. So I’m supposed to say poachers, but completely wrong. Wrong. What training these ranges? Not on that one. No, no. So I didn’t have any negative. It was very. Although, I mean, we had the lots of, cause we out in the Bush on foot, so we are meeting elephant and like Buffalo, which kind of nicknamed the black death because they’re, they’re actually one of the most dangerous creatures in the Bush angry creature.

So you kind of having to look out for those all the time. But the very nature of the work that I do Well, since the age of [00:19:00] 17, it’s like I’ve kind of spent, you know, 10, 11 months of each year away in these remote kind of wilderness places. By the very nature of the work they do, they are inherently dangerous.

And I have run into various situations like I’ve been shot at a few times and held hostage and all sorts of exciting, exciting things, obviously. But a huge part of the work they do is to mitigate and to minimize the risk of any of this stuff happening. But you know, when you’re going into kind of politically unstable environments or environment like the environment, like exposure and weather and all of this kind of can play a part in it as well.

So. As much as I kind of try to mitigate, there’s always something that happens. So this is something that I would say to anybody who’s wanting to get into kind of expeditions or, you know, to go off and travel and things a lot. I know that on social media, it looks like you’ve got these you know, you’ve got you’re off on these incredible advances.

And, you know, it’s, [00:20:00] I think social media can be a little bit misleading. And so none of the trips or very, very few of the trips that I do are just disappearing off into the wilderness with no prior preparation, because it’s, for me, all those features, particularly because. Most of the trips and things that I do, I’m actually responsible for the lives of everybody else on that trip.

So it’s really, really important that I build like a safety net beneath the expedition, because just like life, like these expeditions never go fully to plan. And there’s always something that happens that where you need to change plans and having that safety net beneath you of communication with the outside world of.

Having evacuation plans for particularly like for the TV work I do as a lot of like risks. Like the more boring part of my job is to write these very comprehensive risk assessments which nobody ever reads. I have to do that anyway. Yeah, so there’s, there’s a lot [00:21:00] of preparation that goes into all of these sort of remote trips.

And I would advise that to anybody who’s going because, so, you know, if you do, and then. Frustrating event that you have to call out, help that somebody knows where you are and can actually find you. So yeah, anybody going off into these, these places, for sure. Do the preparation and the research beforehand?

Yeah. I think we’ve had a few people on a wave and a Blackwell who got into a bit of difficulty in Sweden and she had one of the sort of Garmin GPS trackers. So she just pulled it and, you know, Couple of hours, people are there, but you know, if she didn’t have that, she was stranded and it’s sort of very important with that too.

Yeah. As you say, be prepared, but also sort of adaptable because I imagine in your line of work, probably there’s a lot of conflict between, as you say, you’re the health and safety inspector on these, on these sort of trips. And [00:22:00] there are people who are wanting to go bigger and Wilder and sort of feel that they can do.

And you have to sort of reign it in. Yeah. It’s definitely this is like, this is a, a big thing that I come into. So on the expedition front then yeah. That if, you know, if I’m leading a trip somewhere and, and sometimes it can be like, Your sixth sense? That’s triggered. That’s like if I’ve got up in the morning and just been like, something feels off, like, I don’t think we should be going for this summit, or I don’t think we should be going further into the jungle, you know, wherever it is, wherever the trip is.

And there’s something inside me. That’s telling me that we shouldn’t carry on, but we need to stop. And I’ve learned to listen to that. And it’s really hard. It’s so, so hard to quantify that to clients, particularly if clients are paid a hell of a lot of money to achieve whatever it is that you’re trying to achieve and you telling them that they can’t go and do something because of a hunch [00:23:00] is can be.

Difficult to manage your, manage their expectations. But I’ve learned over the years, I’ve learned to listen to that. And this kind of, again goes back to that kind of evolution thing of like intuition and the way that I see intuition is that we’ve got this So we’ve got our subconscious and we’ve got a conscious and like 90%, maybe more of cognitive function is happening in our subconscious.

There’s only a tiny, tiny little bit. It’s like an iceberg. There’s only a tiny, tiny, little bit conscious above this huge, vast iceberg. And the subconscious role is to protect the conscious mind from all the different stimulations that are coming in. So whenever I get that sixth sense, I kind of like anxiety.

And like feeling of like shit something’s wrong is I wouldn’t stop and listen in because what I figured is that often that anxiety and that sixth sense feeling. Comes from like an UN [00:24:00] formed image coming through. So my mind, my body, you know, the senses have picked up on something that’s changed within the environment.

And it sent me through like a picture. Yeah. But it, hasn’t got the full picture and hasn’t sent it all through, so I will stop and I’ll listen to that and I’ll really assess. And it’s literally kept me alive and kept teams alive on quite a few occasions. So that’s like the execution side of things in the filming side because I work online.

Literally, they are like the biggest adventure shows on TV with huge budgets with mega mega stars involved in them as well. And there’s always the pressure to to go bigger, to do bigger stunts, to do bigger challenges, to go further a field. And this is, this is where my role is, can be quite difficult because I’m involved in the creative side.

Involved in like the story producing. So coming up with the journey. So I’ll be the first person out on the ground [00:25:00] scouting for locations or putting together the journeys. But I’m also in charge of the safety on these shoots as well. And that’s my number one priority and it’s whenever. You know, huge networks, huge presenters, huge stars who want to go bigger, bigger, bigger, but it becomes dangerous.

And we can’t manage it with the time constraints and the budget constraints. Yeah, you have to get very good at like you have to grow quite a thick skin because when you put in your foot down and saying, no it can be quite, yeah, you can get a lot of like shit thrown at you. And a lot of people hate to use, but like the way that over the years.

You know, like I’ve come to trust myself and my judgment with these things and it comes from experience. And in those situations I will, if I have to say no on a film job, I’ll always have a backup plan. It’d be like, no, we can’t go [00:26:00] and do whatever ridiculous thing that you want to do because often these things have been kind of dreamed up in some office in LA where the people there have never actually been into these environments.

So it’s like, well, no, we can’t actually do that, but we can do this instead. And it will look epic. So that, that Sonny takes the books and makes them happy. Yeah, well, yeah, to some extent it’s yeah, you have to get like a lot of the producers, particularly from Nike sort of America and things that it can be quite, quite volatile, like creative, creative, very creative people who can be.

All the talent and things. So yeah, I’ve kind of got quite good at having a, having a thick skin, not take it personally. And you know, like, you know, once we start filming and they actually see it, that, you know, you’ll be being their best mates. So they love it. I mean, you, you did sort of touch upon it earlier, but you sort of said you’ve been shot at, you’ve been held hostage.

I mean, on these trips, have there been moments of [00:27:00] trouble? Yeah, so yeah, I mean it does, it happens, happens from time to time. Yeah, I mean, some of it, we keep relatively quiet because of like the NDAs, because people are involved in all of this sort of stuff. But then there have been times so.

We did a job in Mexico. Like God probably be about 10 years ago now. And we had, we had several run-ins with like, with drug cartels and things like hunting us. Cause we were, we were filming like four by four show, like four by four survival shows. It was really cool to say three months in Mexico, just doing some really cool stuff with these with these four by fours.

And yeah, we, we were basically using some of the four by four routes that we were using were drug running routes. And. Oh, we had like a local fixer. So whenever [00:28:00] we do these film jobs, we have a local fixes and affects his job at waste effect stuff to make stuff happen for us to get permits.

They know the right people to talk to the right people who need to be kind of paid off and all of this sort of stuff. And. Help us and help keep us safe from those perspectives. But sometimes the message doesn’t always filter through. So yes, we ended up being kind of hunted by drug cartels. They were nights and nights.

I remember just hiding out in the bushes with these little, these guys with these semi automatic kind of getting out and looking for us in the bushes and stuff. It was quite quite exciting. And then, yeah. About three years ago it was around the time when the big drought was happening. And we were out there filming something.

Some big show and I’ve been rigging. So we’d been building this kind of big rope bridge thing across across a canyon which had like crocodiles and [00:29:00] stuff in the bottom of, and I was just finishing off one site and because we move so fast, when we fill my website, take a little videos or take pictures and I just finished rigging and I was just taking pictures of where all the rigging points were.

So when we ran through the following day, it would be like easily clipped stuff in and things. And like, I was just, just taking a picture and suddenly this like bullet hit the sand right next to me and kind of exploded. Obviously not the first thing that goes through your head is like, shit I’m being shot here.

So it’s a kind of dived into this little cave. And it was cool. Bullets going off all over the cliff around me. And yeah, it was pretty, pretty terrifying in the moment. But it’s amazing, like in those situations that kind of go into a kind of a moment, a place of calm. So it was just them waiting and it kind of, the firefight kind of swung around.

I’m actually get off slide down into this river, like sort of chesty with these crocodiles. We’ve been watching, popping up and down kind of swim run through this river and up the other side to kind of this [00:30:00] steep rock, I’m pretty sure rock face to get into like a bigger cave. The other side where the two guys that I’ve been working with were and we spent about 20 minutes in this cave with like, Bouncing off the roof of the cave above us before we were able to put, kind of died down a bit and we were able to get off down river and back to the land cruise that we’d got parked off in the bushes.

And it was just like moments like that. Cause we afterwards, you know, We’re kind of investigating what happens. It had got nothing to do with us. It was just one tribe had stolen a load of goats from another tribe and tracked the Trebek track. They said that one of the guys down there been following them and they’d sort of firefighting broken out between them.

And meanwhile, like a local ranger unit set up an ambush. So there’s like three parties, like all above where we were rigging shooting at each other was sort of up in the lucky Pierre. This [00:31:00] was what it was. I can’t remember the name of his newer big big lodge. It was quite remote. I’m sorry.

All right. I, yeah, cause I must be in sort of what, January, February, 2017 times. Yeah, it would have been, it was few years ago now. Yeah. I can’t remember. It’s like, this is the thing about like being wild time or kind of runs into one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, I, I sort of knew Kenya quite well. So I do remember that.

Yeah, it was definitely like the whole area was like really unstable. And we had like a major star coming in the next day. And this is where I actually liked the way that it was handled by the production company that I was working for at the time was really terrible, really, because it was like, let’s keep it up.

Under under wraps. Otherwise, you know, this person isn’t gonna, isn’t going to turn up. And that was really [00:32:00] hard, you know, when, when my role is like the safety of people and yeah, it was definitely, it brought up a lot of questions in my, in my head over, you know, like the, the value of human life and things, because, you know, there’s obviously people have lost their lives in this area.

You know, the day before we’re supposed to be filming there and yeah. Morally how right is it that we’re kind of carrying on with, with what we’re doing and all of this sort of stuff? So yeah, that, that’s the darker side. I think of like if the film industry, yeah. I suppose as you say someone in a studio in the city, doesn’t quite.

This sort of, you know, the jungle or the desert or the planes or something say, yeah, no. Yeah. And there’s also there’s so there’s so much money tied up in all of these things and it’s so competitive now. I mean, it’s quite an exciting time with like, With filmmaking in that there’s in terms of like the, sort of [00:33:00] the normal, like sort of standard channels and stuff are slowly kind of disappearing as we go more into kind of streaming platforms and things.

So it’s quite an exciting time in like the evolution of TV and how we watch it and what’s going to be happening. But. This is so competitive because all these different networks will competing for for content, for stars, for budgets all of, all of their sort of status for night viewers and things, obviously.

So yeah, it can be an incredibly ruthless industry to be a part of. Yeah, it was quite interesting because as you say, the sort of. As you say, the sort of media on the media angle, it is changing. And now, you know, everyone has a camera that can record for 20 minutes or so they can make their own, they can upload it and then they can be the star of their own TV program.

And I think we have Benedict to Alanon quite a few episodes back and, you know, he was. You know, he used to go [00:34:00] with his camera record, which, you know, now everyone just associates with logging, but he was doing that way before way before anyone was sort of doing it on the sort of travel YouTube per se, CNA, as you say, is a really sort of interesting time probably to be in media as you.

Yeah, I think, I think give it a few more, a few years, because I think what we’ll probably see now is in terms of like the streaming platforms, things, as they try to set themselves up and establish themselves with them, we’re going to be making like a lot of Shopwindow content, like. Big names already recognize names to draw viewers in.

And then I think once they become established, hopefully there’ll be more budget than in like two or three years time to then start bringing on new talent start creating new content and new formats and things. [00:35:00] So I think it’s, yeah, we’ve got a bit of an evolution going on now, but it’s like you said, it’s like, this is, what’s so exciting about like social media and like the way the access that we’ve got to people doing really cool stuff, because you can kind of tune in to whatever really, and whatever your interests.

So yeah, like there’s some amazing people making great adventure content and, and streaming it themselves on YouTube and other platforms and things, which is, which is great. Yeah. No, I, I, and I suppose your plan now is to carry on, I mean, the world’s now opening up, so you’ve got sort of more, more media stuff coming in the coming years coming.

So. Yeah, so there’s, yeah, there’s been a lot of like shows that have been on on Holt through this, through this period. So yeah, it’s been great for being able to do like been doing remote consultancy. I’ve also sold a couple of my own show ideas. So actually seeing those [00:36:00] go into developments and hopefully be made is, is really, it’s very, very exciting.

Yeah. So hopefully in the next few months that those will actually get out on the ground. And I can oversee those projects being made, which would be super, are they local or around the world? Oh, they international. So one is gone to a U S network and the other one has gone to a Korean network.

Oh, amazing. Good. So you’ll be spending a bit of time out in Korea. You hope? I hope so. Yeah. Yeah. That w that, that one I’ll actually probably be filmed. That’ll be filmed around Asia. So that’s not just not just career. So that’ll be yeah. Filmed all over. But I like this, the whole kind of pandemic, the whole lockdown.

Period kind of made me realize, you know, like I’ve spent so much of my life on the road and I’ve spent apps that it makes [00:37:00] me but then that makes me realize that there are there’s this time actually kind of being in one place and actually. I suppose that getting out and back doing stuff for myself which is where, you know, my love for the outdoors and my passion for what I do CA originally came from and kind of going back into that, like having this time is actually kind of real life made me realize that, you know, that there, you also need time for yourself and time chasing your own passions as well.

So that’s, yeah, it’s kind of the next chapter kind of involves more of my own. Adventures I’m picking and choosing more cleverly, like the projects that I’m involved with. Do you do, do you do quite a lot of your own sort of X expeditions, like for your own personal growth and development? I used to, so that’s, that’s how I first got into the, into the outdoor industry.

Originally was because I wanted to spend more time climbing and being outside for myself. [00:38:00] And then, yeah, when I first started Guiding, like I was like 17, 18 at the time. And I, I really did enjoy it. I was like, I had to go really slowly and I had to look after these people who would just complain things.

And I really, I really didn’t enjoy it. I was like, what am I doing? Like and then I, then I realized, and I, it was like on an expedition, I was leading an expedition out to the pool and I just realized that. I had to change my mindset on this and it wasn’t about me. Like when I’m guiding, when I’m leading, it’s not about me.

It’s about the people that are in my care. And so I kind of, I have two personas. I’ve got my own self that when I’m in the mountains or when I’m, when I’m out, it’s like for me, it’s about pushing my own personal limits and seeing what I’m capable of. And then I’ve got my guiding persona, which is.

Pushing other people and going on a journey with [00:39:00] other people. And it’s the most incredible thing, helping somebody achieve something that they didn’t think that they were capable of and accompanying them on this kind of roller coaster of emotions to get them to that late literal and figurative. So it of the of them, their mountain or, you know, survival or whatever it might be.

And that’s just, it’s the most incredible thing being part of, part of that journey. So, yeah. Two ways of interacting with the, with the outdoors. Yeah, I suppose. What was your sort of first big adventure when you started? I think was, I was just, I was very, very fortunate that I ended up working for companies that that were, I suppose were kind of cutting edge at the time of light.

Taking people on these exhibitions. So my very first expedition that I co-lead with my boss at the time was to [00:40:00] Namibia. We went out on, we though it was a two week long exhibition with clients, but we had like three weeks, I think it was before the clients arrived and we went out and we spent two weeks with the sound Bushman.

And. We were working with them, kind of learning loads of notes from them. And then we went off for a week. Put their skills into practice in the, in the Bush and then move in Bush there. And then when we had clients come out, we then went with several Bushman families out into pretty remote and just had like two weeks totally off grid.

Just living off the land with these, with these Bushman families. So yeah, so that was like my first, I was the first expedition. I did. And then I did it. I did a lot of work for well challenge for adventure works, which used to be like Jackie Globes, like youth expeditions and stuff. Yeah.

And kind of, I suppose, just built it, [00:41:00] built it out from there until I kind of got more involved with the, with the TV side of things. Cause I think on, you know, on this podcast, One of my big aims is always to try and encourage people to sort of get out and explore their limits. And by having someone like you on, you know, who’s done such incredible stuff over the years.

Hopefully it, it sort of encourages them to be like, oh, I, I can at least try and do. Tiny thing that compared to what you’re doing, and that’s sort of one of the big aims of it. And then, you know, on so far, you know, we’ve covered fear and the why. Okay. Just getting out and why, how your brain just tells you.

Right. Don’t do that. Don’t do that.

I think in terms of like, you know, for people wanting to get out, because what has been drawn to my attention recently, and this is like the guide and like the safety management side of me talking and thinking about it is [00:42:00] that What I see on social media and stuff is there’s a lot of people going off on these adventures and on these challenges and things with very, very little prior training beforehand or not fully showing the fact that they’re actually being guided, that they’ve actually got a guide with them or that they’ve done all these training courses and stuff beforehand.

So. Yeah. So for anybody who’s wanting to, to kind of get into adventure and go off into these remote amazing places which I totally recommend is to go and do training courses. There’s like a whole industry of guides and leaders like myself who can take you and teach you the skills. You need for that exhibition, whether it’s a whitewater kayaking trip, or if it’s a survival trip or mountaineering trip, you know, there’s outdoor professionals in all fields, in all walks of adventure.

And you know, it won’t break the bank to go book yourself onto a course for a [00:43:00] weekend, for a week. Learn the basic skills of like navigation of. Wild camping of like how to dress yourself in these environments. These are like the foundation or fundamental skills that so many people don’t pick up and don’t realize that they don’t know until it’s too late.

So yeah, just go and get the training because it’s like, Behind every single focus on social media, there’s a whole backstory that you never see. So these pictures that people take in these beautiful remote environments, there’s been like a whole series of events and training and things that have got somebody to that point where they can go and take that photo.

So please do go and get training. Cause you know, I’m based here in Snowdonia and it’s like, you know, change the mountain rescue and it’s like, they’re out quite a lot at the moment just because people aren’t. Equipped with the very basic knowledge of, of how to dress appropriately or how to navigate or just how to look after themselves in that environment.

And it would just set you up for [00:44:00] your, a comfortable career and adventure. I think there was a thing the other day in the news about someone who got stuck up, either Ben Nevis or up in the Snowdonia wearing, you know, sort of shorts. Flip flops or something, you know, got caught short and the snow came in and they sort of rescued them with just like absolutely nothing on and could not understand, say, you know, I laugh and I still love now.

And I feel like last thing things it’s like, you don’t know what you don’t know until you’re in that situation. But this is where like going and doing the training beforehand kind of gives you some skills, but it’s also like, I do think as well, we’ve got a lot of transferable skills as well from, from all walks of life.

So it’s like actually kind of really thinking through like what your actions are, what, what you’re actually doing. It may be easier said than done. Yeah. [00:45:00] As you say it, you know, it’s something probably. You know myself and you just take for granted, you know, growing up and knowing this stuff or learning it from a young age, it’s just almost second nature.

But yeah. So on social media, which is, as you say puts always, you always show the very sort of glamorous or very beautiful side to every feta and don’t show you the sort of background and the story behind the face. Say. Yeah. Well, Megan, there’s a part of the show where we ask the same five questions to each guest each week with the first beam.

What gadget do you always take with you? On your trips. So I always take a satellite phone with me or some means of communicating. I usually have a satellite phone and like an inReach or something with me as well. So I usually try to have like two methods of communicating with the outside world. Yeah, just [00:46:00] because.

To look after myself, but also because, you know, I’m, I’m actually looking after the people in these environments and it’d be irresponsible of me when that technology exists. Not to take it with me. Yeah. What about your favorite adventure or travel? Does like the, does the Lord of the rings couch if we’ve had it a few times?

Yeah. Where’s the, so I think because I work in adventure and because it’s like reading, I’m like, there’s some people doing amazing things, writing some amazing books, but I actually really struggled to read. Adventure books just because it’s like being at work and it’s like, I need the escape. Certainly like if they’re hope it’s it’s a little bit, there’ll be different.

I mean, I think as we’ve always said, that was quite the adventure. It was, but I think it’s like, it also, like, it makes you realize like what I always thought, because when I was a kid, when I first read it, I was just like, oh, I really want to be like one of these little hobbits off on [00:47:00] an adventure. And then I was thinking about it, like as an adult and thank you about it.

It’d be like, God, it’d be super shit. It’d be like a Hobbit because it’s like, you you’ve got, everything is trying to kill you. And it’s like, you’ve got no the fear like that. They must be experiencing like the intolerant tire. Why way round. I mean, I’m sure once they dropped it ring up. Okay know that they probably needed treatment for like PTSD or something.

It must’ve been really traumatized. Why are adventures important to you? I guess it’s more the question of why the, why they wouldn’t be. I think it’s something that’s, it’s, it’s always been a huge, huge part of my life from a very young age. Like it was a huge part of my childhood. Through to now, I guess it’s just, it’s, it’s who I am.

And without it, without being able to step out of my comfort zone to be able to push myself, it’s like, I get a real like anxiety. I also have [00:48:00] add which is something that I’ve suspected for a long time, but sort of been diagnosed more recently. And it’s like the inability to kind of sit still.

So I think that the work that I do is fantastic for me because my brain. Works a million miles an hour. And with the work I do, it’s like I’m over so many different things. It’s like my brain can focus. Whereas outside of adventure, it’s like, I couldn’t, yeah, I couldn’t just sit here in front of my computer, like all day.

So it’s, it’s really important for my mental health as well as my physical health. Amazing. FA what is your favorite color? Well motivational quotes. Yeah. So this, this is from sucker punch, the film, which I think is a really weird film and I didn’t really get it, but it’s the quote is you have all the weapons you need now.

Fight. And it’s like, for me, that’s what I remember. Like when the shit hits the fan on a trip, it’s like, I’ve got all the skills I need to deal with [00:49:00] this. I may not have been in this exact situation before, but I’ve been in similar situations or I can draw on experience from elsewhere and you know, I’m not going to fight.

I’m going to make this happen.

There’s a whole like poem thing. I’ve actually got stuck on the wall here. Like that kind of goes with it. It’s it’s amazing. Amazing. And people listening are always keen to travel and go on these sort of grand adventures. What’s the one thing you would recommend for people wanting to get stuck? I think, like I said in earlier in an interview is like, is to go and get some training in what you want to do.

Like I said, there’s like a whole industry of guides, instructors, leaders in whatever discipline that you’re wanting to travel to do. And I cannot recommend it enough going and booking yourself on with somebody who can help you push your limits and teach you a lot. Is it, [00:50:00] it don’t, it won’t doesn’t if you’ve got a group of you as well, it really doesn’t cost very much to do that and it’ll just set you up and it means that the next adventure that you go on.

Yeah. You’ll be able to do it with a lot more confidence and it’ll be a much more comfortable experience as well. Well, yeah, I, as I was reading that one, I was like, yeah, yeah, we have Jessica literally just before the five questions. Finally, what are you doing now? And how can people follow you in the future?

So the moments are because we had just kind of coming out at the end of the pandemic. I ha just I’ve been using this time. I’m actually kind of using the time at moments. I’m away in September on another film job. And to that point up until then, it’s like I’m working on remotely consulting for physicians.

There’s some pretty exciting new shows being made. So I’m remote doing remote consultancy for them and I’m [00:51:00] rebalancing body, your mind, and actually. Yeah, old injuries that kind of started niggling. I’ve actually had time now to kind of really kind of focus on like rebalancing and getting my energy level as well, because you know, when, when you’re away so much for so much of the year and responsible for.

Well for multimillion dollar shoots and people it’s yeah, I totally underestimated like the, the draining effect that that has. So it’s actually, it’s been really, really good and I hugely appreciated this time, actually just being in one place, getting into a bit of routine. To kind of re rebalance their body.

That is a rebalance, like body, body, mind, and actually kind of, you know, kind of ready for the, for the next chapter. And it’s yeah. Super exciting. One thing we haven’t touched on is that you actually have a, an amazing book. I, if you’ve probably best, you sort of tell the people, [00:52:00] because I sort of, we haven’t actually, you sort of touched upon it, but it was sort of talking about your life and this sort of skills that you’ve sort of acquired.

Yeah. So a minder for survivor was Booker room a few years ago now. And basically came from the question of like like w why are some people able to walk out of survival situations and others aren’t and like, what are the traits that make up resilience and make that possible for somebody mixed in with, with some of my own kind of stories from that time?

Yeah. So it’s on Amazon. Well, we’ll leave a link in the description. No worries. Well Megan, it’s been an absolute pleasure listening to your stories and I cannot thank you enough for coming on today. No worries. Thanks for having me for today. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you got something out of it.

If you did hit that like [00:53:00] button and subscribe, if you haven’t already, and I will see you in the next video.

Alice Morrison

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Alice Morrison (Adventurer & Author)

On the podcast today, we have Alice Morrison, an Adventurer, Author and Presenter. Her first series for the BBC was Morocco to Timbuktu: An Arabian Adventure when she travelled the old salt and slave routes from the tip of Morocco, where she now lives, to the fabled and perilous city of Timbuktu. Her third book, 1001 Nights, was published in April 2019 with Simon & Schuster.

Alice is a journalist by background and has worked on BBC News in English and Arabic, and Sky News.

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Transcript of our Conversation

Alice Morrison

[00:00:00] Alice Morrison: Hello, and welcome to the modern adventurer podcast coming up as a woman. I don’t want to like go on about gender differences, but actually the one thing I can, my super power is that I can talk to women in traditional communities, which men can. And I’m sure you’ve found this in your travels. You know, I literally get separated from the men and that’s actually a privilege because it means I get both sides of the story and I get to hear.

Well, what’s troubling. The, what the women are thinking about during Corona, as well as the men, the men are thinking about how they’re going to feed the family. Can they get any money for their sheep? Because the bottom consistently dropped out of the meat market. How are they going to, you know, if they don’t have enough grazing, how are they going to afford a bag of oats?

The women are not talking about that. The women are talking about their children, their health, the women they’re talking about. They’re worried about their, daughter’s not going to school because it’s such yeah. It’s relatively, relatively new that universal education. Women [00:01:00] want their daughters to be educated.

So a lot of the things I heard were, you know, we’re really worried are our children are missing out, are our girls are missing out on their education. We want them to have a different life from us.

My next guest is an author and adventurer growing up Ganda and Ghana from a young age, she had a wild childhood and has used that to pursue adventures around the world. After getting a degree in Arabic and Turkish, she used that as a platform for journalism and works all over the world. But then in 2001, she packed it all in and went on some crazy expeditions today on the podcast, we get into detail about her stories from that.

As well as the nomadic community out in Morocco, where she lives in the Atlas mountains. So I am delighted to introduce [00:02:00] Alice Morrison to the podcast. Absolutely pleasure. Well, I mean, you have quite the, the collection of trips over the last few years, and I think for people listening, probably the best place to start is at the beginning because you have such an amazing sort of childhood growing up.

Such sort of exotic places. And I would love to sort of hear about how you sort of got started in this sort of world of adventure. Well, I like to say that I started very early because when I was six weeks old by parents who was Scott’s my mom had never left Edinburgh before. Oh, sorry. Scotland before.

And they got on a boat, sail to Africa, got a train up to Uganda. Celtic ambassador in Kenya, got a train up to Uganda. And when to live in the African Bush in the countryside and we’re teachers. So my, I started off. If you like with a bit of a life of adventure, thanks to my father. Wow. And what part of the world [00:03:00] in Uganda where you for portals?

So we were in a place called kitsch Womba for portal was the nearest town. And we were in a teacher training college looking out over the ruins story mountains, the mountains of the moon. And I mean, it was a fantastic childhood. There’s no doubt, but complete freedom. I didn’t go to school till I was seven.

My mom taught me to read when I was three. And I think all of those very early things, you don’t think they shape you. You really don’t. They really shape you. And I find that as I’ve gone through life, I’ve definitely moved full circle back to the kind of things that those earliest memories are. So for example, now I live in the Atlas mountains and our view is not dissimilar to the view I had growing up.

I’ve got my two peaks, clean air, cold nights and freedom. And I think for me, I had a very free childhood running around. There was no. Even though the property were dangerous, there was no feeling of danger or worry for my parents. You know, we literally would go [00:04:00] off and walk around in, in the rainforest of the mountains.

Things would happen to us. I remember at one point I got stung by a swarm of wild Hornets, my head swelled up, but we were fine and, and that. That no problem kind of attitude. I think that my parents really encapsulated has definitely stood me in good stead for later life. And that’s where it will start.

Yeah. Yeah. I always think you never, you can never connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking back. And it’s so true. You sort of always come back to the sort of full circle in the end with it. I really do think that. And I think as well, anyone who’s been to Africa. He’s not from Africa, if you’re from Africa.

Cause he feel there’s anyway. There is something about the constant and now I’m living in north Africa, but it’s something about the red RF and the smell of wild basil and wild time and the blue blue sky and on [00:05:00] the adventure I just finished. I spent a lot of time and yeah. Sahara and Sahara desert region, and you know, those Umrah trees, the thorn thorn trees, the flattop trees against the completely empty landscape with the setting sun and those things.

They feel like cliches in a way, but they’re not, they completely get into your blood. And, and it makes me feel so happy and comfortable and. Somehow at one with the world I live in, when I see and experience and smell and hear those songs. God. And so what you lived in Uganda for your entire childhood? No, I lived there till I was eight and then we came back to Scotland and my parents wanted us to go to school in Scotland to get an education.

So we came back to Scotland, but mom and dad didn’t have any cash whatsoever. They were teachers. And so my dad. Teach at the local high school in the Highlands and open and we lifted the tent. Because we didn’t have a house, so my brother would be born by then. He was forced. So we did it in his tent for a [00:06:00] while, and then it flew down in a Gale and we upgraded to a caravan.

So again, I think there was quite a lot of fun growing up. And then we were back in Scotland for a while. Then we went back to Africa, west Africa to Ghana, and then the terrible thing happened that I was sent to boarding school at the age of 11. That was a very nasty shock. Suddenly we weren’t allowed to do anything from having been able to do everything.

I was at 40 school in Edinburgh where you weren’t even allowed out of the boarding school, except for once a week for three hours on a Saturday morning to the sweet shop. And you had to wear two pairs of pants. Other than that was quite good. Cause it was very, very, very cold. So two pairs of pants at least kept my bottom warm, but it was all very.

Intuitive to be in a bit strange. And what’s the reasoning behind Tepe has a pen. I don’t even want to speculate. We also had to wear beige ankle socks and the green velure hat, as well as normal clothes. On top. Of course we didn’t just go out in that, but it was [00:07:00] all very, it was, you know, it was the Dennis and kindly ladies academy for young ladies in Edinburgh.

So it was a very different atmosphere from what I’d been used to. But I got my education. I left when I, as soon as I could, when I was 17 and went to the least. So. You know, everything serves a purpose, everything works out for the best. Sometimes you were in the middle east and I think I’m right in saying that’s you got your sort of degree in journalism and you studied Arabic.

Turkish was it? Yeah, I did. This is terrible because I was a journalist and still am a journalist. But I did never do a degree in journalism. I studied Arabic, Turkish politics, Islam, literature, everything that middle Eastern, if you like. And I did that Edinburg for four years, but before I went, and again, this is all these steps on the path.

What you said about joining circle. I go to job at a magazine in Dubai called what’s on [00:08:00] in Dubai which is still going. That year of experience, which was amazing. So I joined at the second issue, psych, I got to do upstate everything. I was only 17 and I was writing articles about the rugby club. I know nothing about rugby and going to Bali.

I’d never been to Bali such free on the path of journalism. I’ve become much more truthful in my old age. So I think everything kind of woven into a pattern and the Arabic and the journalism. Have really, I would say shaped, shaped my life. Got it. And yeah, it’s an it sorta, must’ve given you such a great springboard to sort of travel with that and see some of the masons.

Incredible parts of the world. Really? Yeah. I think, I think people have actually got a natural bent. Obviously, most people love their own country and then some people are very attracted to different cultures. So for example, some people definitely is India or for other people it’s [00:09:00] Europe. Venice and Vienna and Rome.

And for me, it’s always been Africa and the middle east, although I really liked south America as well, but it stopped kind of for whatever reason. I don’t know if it’s, again, that early imprinting, which must be a factor. They just always attracted me. I felt very comfortable. I felt that I can, I ha not having an insight into the people there, but I feel I can relate.

Live with people and understand where they’re coming from and they understand where I’m coming from. And so I feel comfortable, which I think most people need to feel comfortable with the people they’re living with. Otherwise, if you just feel like a complete stranger, of course, I’m a stranger here, but if you, if you, if you feel very strange, I think it’s difficult to live in different countries.

Yeah, by sort of moving around when you were younger, it’s different countries gave you that sort of comfort in [00:10:00] being in, by living in foreign countries. Whereas someone who’s probably based themselves in one country the whole time. Going and living abroad is very alien to them. It is. And I think something which I’ve come to realize on, which I think is a little bit odd about we actually, but it is the truth.

So, you know, just fit your truths. Is the, I actually quite like being the strange one, the stranger, the foreigner, the immigrant, the expatriate doesn’t matter what you call it, having a level of observation. From where I am, because I’m not from there. So I’m slightly observing what’s going on. And as I like to think of myself as a kind of a storyteller or a minstrel, because I tell a lot of stories and I think that’s one of the things that appeals to me about living in different places is, is the I’m constantly seeking out and searching for and listening really hard and learning.

And I find that that really [00:11:00] stimulates me and inspires my life. It also ties me out. I need some dogs and quite a lot of downtime with Netflix. I think sometimes we all need that. So what was the turning point in your life where you suddenly decided to pursue these more? Let’s say extreme adventure. I think that’s a really good question.

And I think most people think there is a big turning point. And I would say that mine’s almost been a progression. And I don’t know if that sounds sometimes in denial about what I’m doing which is a possibility to make it less frightening. But I think there was a very big trigger point and that was, I was chief executive of a media development company called vision and media in the Northwest of India.

We built it up from scratch. For nine years, I had 40 staff. We’d had to budget. I built up a budget of 10 million pounds a year, but we’re very successful. And then absolutely no personal cause, [00:12:00] but the tourists came into power. We were acquired, go. And David Cameron said, I’m going to abolish all congos. And so he abolished our two main funders within a week of each other.

The people that we won money from to that invest in the economy and it’s film companies, TV companies, games, companies. So the long and short of it was I had to meld my company into a bigger company staff or some of the stuff were made redundant. I was made, I was redundant. And those, those events in someone’s life are quite shocking.

Even if you know, when you’re in charge. I was going to be without a job, but also I was making other people lose their jobs and that responsibility did certainly weighed very heavily. And I’d seen this race years before to race across Africa. And I’d always wanted to go back to my African roots to, you know, feel those things I felt as a child again, and wonder if I could remember more from my childhood.

So I signed up for a [00:13:00] race. I signed up to race across the continent from Cairo to Cape town, which is eight, 8,000 miles, 12 and a half thousand K. On my bike without any I’d like you I’m very bad at treating. So my training consisted of watching strictly come dancing and going on a turbo trainer with chocolate.

So I was really unprepared. I, I signed up in November. I left in January and partly it was to. Try and get away from what I’ve been going through. And especially this feeling of guilt of having to, you know, put stuff into redundancy, which I find very difficult and the feeling of anger that the government was making us was, was cutting us.

And then it sets up three different organizations that our place and that kind of. That childlike feeling of it’s not fair. Well, life isn’t fair, you know, and unselfish one. And really that was, that was a turning point. Because I think I remember when I signed up for it, [00:14:00] my mom was really upset and she said, what are you doing?

You’ll never get another job again. And actually she’s kind of right, but not for the reasons that she thought, but the reason was the after spending, you know, from January til may and the total freedom, riding a bike across Africa, putting yourself through that as well. The physical duress of it. Yeah. The, the, the, kind of the mental strength you needed to just get on the bike in the morning when you, oh my goodness.

I didn’t want to so many days I didn’t want to. And then getting to the end, the camaraderie of the group, the, the dangerous we encountered, because we did all of those things and the, just the sheer enormous, fantastic pleasure of it. You know, the thought of going back to being a chief executive after that was.

It was impossible. And also I think I’d become probably more or less unemployable. Yeah. It’s this sort of taking the risk to do it. And I suppose, [00:15:00] what was that trip lakes? I know you came out with the book dodging elephant. You are very good at doing you reset. Yes. Dodging elephants. So that will give you a clue as to some of the things that happened during the trip.

There was wildlife. That trip was amazing. It’s the tour de freak and that’s H a F R I Q U E as opposed to F R E K. It’s an annual race three times longer than the tour de France. You do a stage that’s a hundred days racing 20 days. You, someone that you do in a Peloton just in order to keep your time’s up and because you’re on a tarmac, other parts of it, there’s no way, you know, you’re way off road.

You’re just on your own. And the African countryside, the African verse, which is my favorite days. And you, you go through 10 countries, you go through a whole continent, you go through the seasons, you go through, you know, we were at 50 degrees heat and the Sudan. And then we went into the rabies season in Tanzania, where you have to stop your bike, find a puddle that was [00:16:00] easy, wash, you know, declawed, the derailleur and your paddles, and then get back on the bike and then do the same again in an hour because the mud was just so thick.

And we, we kind of cycled into. Cold cold beginning of winter in South Africa. So that whole. Across the planet kind of feeling of, of a journey and over length and of actually spending time in the world was very addictive. Yeah. I’m sure. And so what were the sort of amazing moments from that other than picking up your bike and put it in a puddle and Washington washing the Tanzania muddled?

I think there was, there was some. The dodgy elephants was a very big moment because that was very dangerous. But I think one of the big days for me was we hit, we hit a place called the lava road and it’s in Northern Kenya. And when we cycled through Northern Kenya, it was the biggest drought that’s been for 25 years.

And if [00:17:00] the temperature was in that say the mid thirties and the lava road was exactly what it said, it was a road across the love of field. So if you can imagine cycling over sharp black rocks I think I saw one tree. On that whole expanse and sitting by the side of the road where people begging for water, because there was no water.

Now, if you can imagine a human being, having to sit beside a road and beg for the, the thing you need off to air to actually survive. That that really affected me and made me understand, you know, the, in the unbelievable privilege of my own life and of all of us who live, where you can drink water without sitting there by the side of a road in the hope that Laurie will come past.

And the second thing was, I couldn’t give them water because I had my Camelback and I needed it. And I knew. So I actually denied a human being, the thing they needed. [00:18:00] So that’s pretty shitty actually. So that, that they always stuck with me. And the other thing that stuck with me is if you, again, the concept of anyone who’s been on the site, a bike, like there is some kind of momentum, usually your, your paddle, but at some point you’re not paddling every street.

On the lava road, you’re pedaling episodes from the stroke because you’re basically going over these black rocks. So your, your arm is slamming into the saddle with every single pedal stroke. And I managed to develop system. Halfway through that day, which was very unpleasant. Cause I felt like I needed to pee.

I didn’t need to pee it’s in the thirties. I have to get to the end of the road. And that day was the only day. I very rarely cry at things extremely apart from the Olympics when people wouldn’t go that I’m very happy for them. I very, very rarely cry. But I remember on that day, The sun was almost setting.

I was the last person on the road. Everyone else had either given up, got in the truck. Most people gave up two thirds of people that day gave up. I was the last one on the road, the [00:19:00] person in front of me, Sam I’d seen him. He was 20 minutes ahead of me and he was still cycling and I’m still on the road.

And, you know, Nether regions were on fire. Just everything was caked in sweat. My legs were giving up. They were just trembling, trembling, trembling from going everything. I was just thinking, this is never, ever going to end. This is literally, this is like some kind of Sisyphean nightmare. I’m never going to get there.

And seeing Sam disappeared to the distance thinking he’s still 20 minutes ahead. And his tears just trickled down my face. I remember thinking. What are you doing? You don’t have enough water stop crying immediately. So I did. But that was the key. That was the day that forged me a little bit, I think through discomfort like that you grow quite a lot very quickly, especially in situations like that.

By putting yourself in such a vulnerable and uncomfortable position [00:20:00] you know, sort of, sort of what’s the word? It. It sort of shows you who you really are. It sort of breaks you down to the bare Bains and that’s when you sort of come through and you’re like, oh wow. Actually I am made of so much more than I ever gave myself any credit for.

Yeah, I think that’s true. But do you also find it’s like now I just think, how did I do that? Looking back at it, I’m like, I don’t, you know, for me, it’s always the first time and I always think I could, you know, I’m not sure I could do it again. You know, am I going to be able to face the next challenge? I think there’s never any certainty, even when you do overcome things, at least for me phase a lot has to do with your mindset that you, or your frame of mind when you went into that race.

You know, if your mindset was no matter what I am going to complete this journey. Rather than, [00:21:00] oh, someone said this might be fun that see what it’s like two very different mindsets to where someone who might come into a lot of trouble and pain might say, well, this is just awful. I need to quit. Whereas if your mindset is like, no matter what gets thrown at them, I’m just going to embrace it and carry on and take it a step further and try and overcome it.

And I think your mindset in those situations are incredibly important. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think for me, after I’d finished towards the freak, the, I signed up for the marathon. They solved that having got a bit addicted to adventures, which is a six marathons cost, does it in six days and used to be called the toughest race on earth.

I don’t think it is, but it’s quite hard. And on that one, I was like, ah, you know, they will literally have to carry me off in my coffin before I stopped doing this. I am going to finish this race because I’m an absolutely terrible runner. And I was [00:22:00] determined to finish it. So for that one, I didn’t even let the possibility of failure and to my head.

And I think it’s quite important not to let that idea that you might, if I ever think, oh, I can stop. If I literally, if I think, oh, I can stop, then I will stop. Even if I’m not tired, if I, you know, if I’m walking up the hill to my house, which I have to do with all my groceries, which is not nothing here.

Cause I live up a mule track on the side of a mountain. If I think, oh, I’ll just stop half I can, I can stop halfway for rest. I immediately stop even though I’m not halfway and put my bags down. So mindset is all. Yeah, God. And you know, the math and the sub let does throw up a few sort of curve balls and everything.

Were you running quite a lot through it or was it more cause I know a lot of people, most, a lot of people like to walk it because. [00:23:00] It’s sort of, they can preserve energy better, or a lot of people run it because they’re like, I want to get the hell out of here. I think I, well, I, there were 1,100 people that did it in my year and I came 665th.

I just missed side of the beast. So, which was brilliant for me. I was kind of midfield. I was expecting I ran and walked and I would strongly advise anyone going into an ultra to go into the mindset that you’re going to run as much as you can. Because yes, you could walk, I guess, the whole of MDs and finishing the time limits, but it would take a huge toll on your body and your feet, and also running, you know, running, you have a different footfall from walking.

Everyone walks a little bit in the MDs, even the elites, because you’re going up a whacking great sand dunes. So everybody has to walk a little bit. It’s all a matter of degree. So I would say I, well, I don’t know if I had to [00:24:00] really calculate it. I’d say probably run 40% walk, 60% or maybe 50 50, but that kind of, that kind of balance The last day, the last Morrison day when my feet were absolutely destroyed.

As in walking up to the start, I thought, I know I’m going to do it because I’m on my last day, but I don’t know how I’m going to bear the pain. I genuinely don’t. I was on my sticks and others, you know, I could have been 387 years old. And my friend Charlie, I was riding with was like, well, how many painkillers you got?

I’ve got, I’ve got, I’ve got 20 left. It’s like, take six. Now, take two of each time you’ve got, and then take two different ones every hour. So I started off the last stage, highest coat. Tripping on ibuprofen, Co-codamol add of paracetamol. And actually, and I thought, oh my God, my feet hurt so much. I might as well just run this.

I won’t say the word dispatch race, because everything hurts so much. What can go wrong? And I [00:25:00] started running and I ran almost that whole marathon with only like a couple of when, when the gradients got to Steve I’ve walked it, but that was my best day weirdly. And I think it was. Realizing that running actually saved my feet because we’d just come out of the long stage where you do a lot of walking and it’s my heels that were knackered.

So running on my fourth forefoot is actually less painful.

Yeah, it is take painkillers. Use them. Don’t be afraid. Sorry. Under doctor’s supervision. Of course. It’s the same in my run that I did in Kenya. I, by the end, I was taking sort of, you know, four, six painkillers. And when I finished, I couldn’t walk, but then as soon as I had to run take the painkillers and then I’d run.

It was a really sort of strange because anytime someone saw me. Towards the end. There’ll be like, you know, how is this even possible? You can’t even get up off the seat. He [00:26:00] can’t even walk. He has to sort of get help. And then as soon as take a few painkillers right. Run, and then, you know, you’d run a marathon in, you know, sort of get to the end and you’d be like, right.

That wear off you collapse in a heap and then next day, take them go again. That’s very intense. But you did though. I mean that Bravo, I take my chapeau often. Well, and so you’re in Muraki now and you during lockdown managed to go on quite a sort of epic trip. In the lockdown I th well, so what happened was I I kind of wants to morph a little bit from that adventure adventures into doing more exploring and trying to use my languages.

I speak Arabic and I’ve been learning Tasha heats, which is one of the atmosphere of Berber languages here. And I thought I want to do something in Morocco. You know, I’m in Morocco. I love it. It’s like I came here to train for the marathon. They solved it by the way, I’d liked it so much that I stayed. So [00:27:00] be careful if you do things like that, you don’t know where it’s going to lead you and I D I D started this expedition in 2019.

I walked the legs of the dry river, which is the longest river in Morocco. And I was the first woman. Well, these firsts are always a bit dodgy, but yeah. As far as I know, I was the first woman to do it. And then it morphed into thinking, well, I’ll do the whole of rock. I’ll join up with a desert leg and a Northern leg, and then I’ll have done the whole thing with the kind of a weird crisscross in the middle.

I’ve done the dry leg. I’d done this horror leg, which was insanely difficult. And then the last leg was the Atlas leg, which was from the door towards the Sutton, the door and the Mediterranean coast down in the down the reef mountains, the Atlas mountains, and down into Watson’s out where I started the whole thing with the draw.

And we checked you out to do it in June of 2020. And then of course, Corona hit and in Rocco’s very strict. I was here in . We weren’t allowed to [00:28:00] leave our house. At all for 14 weeks except to go shopping. And we had to have a paper from the government saying that one person for her solders that had to go out.

So it was incredibly strict. And as a foreigner, as a guest in someone else’s country I stuck to the rules. Like 99.9% because I am the only westerner in this village. I am a woman. I am, as I say, I strongly feel that I’m in somebody else’s country and that I have to abide by their rules. I like a hundred percent.

And also, I didn’t know what would happen. You know, Morocco was infected by COVID. From Europe. So it was not understood. Sure. How people were going to feel about that. So I stayed in doors and in 14 weeks, the most I walked was a kilometer. And that I just find that insanely difficult. I really locked.

[00:29:00] I was not, you know, I was not one of those who was breaking sour bread and doing yoga and learning to play the violin. I just basically sat and moaned quite a lot and try to keep, I did quite a few articles. Yeah. Talks, but I certainly didn’t thrive during lockdown. And then we came out of strict lockdown.

We were allowed to move within the country a little bit and we managed John Pierre, my expedition organizer from . He managed to get the permissions from all the local authorities, except for the last one. And we settled on our expedition across the Atlas mountains. And we set off in August, the end of August.

It was so unbelievably hot. It’s the hottest time of year. It was so hot that on the first day, the camels who were undernourished, because one of the bad things about Corona in Brocco is that the, and we’ve had a double whammy. We’ve had Corona and we’ve had an ongoing. [00:30:00] So the animals usually graze wild in the desert in the case of the camels in the Sahara and south.

But their diet is supplemented by food bought by their work in the tourism. And yeah. No work, no supplementary food. No, none of the farmers can afford to feed their animals, extra food. They, you know, people are hanging on. So this was the, the, the animals were, they were fine, but they were not in fantastic shape that I was used to.

And. On the first day they all sat done. They just sat down in the mopes and say, couch, you know, Campbell’s couch on their four legs and then their home legs and tuck them all underneath. And they just pitched. And when I said to Brahim, I was like, for him, who’s our expedition leader who assisted me for seven and a half months for the whole trip.

I was like for him, what is going on? Why is he missing my favorite homework? Why, why are they, why are the coaching. It’s too hot. It’s too hot. I’m Scottish. It’s [00:31:00] too hot for me. My space was beetroot and I was just sweating like a shower. I was like, it’s too hot for me. It’s too hot. It’s too hot for them to be carrying loads up Hills in this weather.

So we started off very, very gently because the camels were our most important. So the most important part of this expedition is carrying our food and water and our equipment. And also, you know, we like our camels, so we had to go very slowly at the start for the Campbells, not for the affair Scottish person.

God. Wow. And what was the sort of, because how long was that trip for? It was, it was just over two months. We made good time and it was fun. Fascinating for me, the quest, I mean, it was the part three of my Moroccan journey. So it was burning pretty in that trilogy to an end, it was through the Atlas muntons, which are just defacto, stunningly, beautiful and varied.

We have plenty of water. Not [00:32:00] entirely the whole way, but most of the way we have plenty of water, whereas the Sahara expedition water had been absolutely in crisis. So I was really looking forward to it. And also it was the men’s, the men are berberine all the atmospheres. So we were going at the end, we would be near their homes.

So they knew the route and they were like really into it. They’re like, we’re going to show you this and we’re going to show you this and wait to see this. And, you know, so I was excited about all of that. I was also on the hunt for dinosaur footprints. Because the final part of the expedition goes through an area where there are dinosaur traces.

So it was a very exciting thought being in freedom. Again, this idea of, you know, lockdown, it’d be like boarding school and an expedition it’s like back to the running around in the, in the countryside. So the sheer freedom of walking was just amazing. And then what I hadn’t thought about particularly.

And again, it, it struck me as I was doing, it was walking through this incredible point of history because [00:33:00] I just walked through Corona. You know, I got to see how the virus is affecting the most remote, some of the most remote communities on earth. And you would think it wouldn’t affect them at all. You know, nomadic community that lives off office animals.

How are they going to be affected by Corona? They’re not going to get it. We didn’t meet a single person by the way. In 1500 kilometers who had Corona. Or, or even who knew someone who had that there wasn’t any, and we took our precautions. We took our lead just to assure people that we were safe. We took very good precautions and we also took our lead from the people we met on the way, if they kept their distance, we, we always put our masks on.

We always kept our distance, but then if they came and welcomed us and embraced us, we buy, you know, after the first 10 days we knew we didn’t have it. We were in our own little bubble. And we’d had tests anyway. So. We just went by their lead. And some people welcomed us. A few people were frightened of us, but most people were delighted to see somebody doing something active.

[00:34:00] And something kind of historic in Corona because for Moroccans, what’s fascinating for me. And I’d actually rather delights my soul is that I’m, I’m going through taking notes on traditional architect architecture, clay, built houses. On what the women are wearing the traditional clothing on how they’re farming, you know, what people are eating and I’m like, Ooh, that’s very interesting.

And then of course, they’re looking at our camel caravan and they’re saying to us, you would like something from 1,001 nights. You would like something from a fairy tale and taking videos with us and selfies at the cabals because nobody travels in camel caravan anymore. So. Whereas I’m physically looking at the traditions I’m passing through.

They’re looking at me and the camels and the R and the man going, oh my goodness, me you’re from the medieval past God. What a, what a site, how amazing must have been just such an incredible. Experience sort of going [00:35:00] through that, especially after probably the sort of winter locked down that we will all had.

I mean you know, went to lot died and grim and yes, I do think I love for there’s some beautiful, especially in the, I mean, all through Morocco Morocco’s is extremely Richard landscape. You have a huge variety of landscapes in one country. But in this Atlas trip, we started in the reef mountains, which are these colorful.

Mountains but not steep as the Atlas, we went through those. It was very, very hot dusty. And then we went onto the recom plateau, which is a hundred kilometer long, very high it’s, a thousand meters high plateau of just dead, you know, sand. The edge flat some scrub wild, you know, some wild, Herb’s some grazing for the flocks and it’s inhabited by a very specific tripe I think is the correct word of nomads who can trace their descendants [00:36:00] back to Yemen.

And the Arab peninsula they’re called Benny the sons of the Crescent moon because they came over in the Arab conquest. Streamy hospitable people. We had the most beautiful experiences there. They live in. Goats hair tenths. Wasn’t from their flocks by the women. And they usually have a one concrete room built with a huge solar panel on the top, which powers up their mobile phones and their fridge.

Everybody has one fridge or freezer that they can. Things in. And then the women tend to do all the cooking and caring for the animals, caring for the children in the tent, which is much cooler and more comfortable. And then the concrete room is like a salon. So when we were invited for a feast, I be with the women in the texts where we split off.

So I’d be with the women and the men would be in the salon. And then I’d usually be asked to join as a kind of Henri man later on. So that was another thing that would just be fascinating for me is because as a woman [00:37:00] I don’t want to like go on about gender differences, but actually the one thing I can, my super power is that I can talk to women in traditional communities, which men can.

And I’m sure you’ve found this in your travels. You know, I literally get separated from the men and that’s actually a privilege because it means I get both sides of the story and I get to hear what. Well, what’s troubling. W what the women are thinking about during Corona, as well as the men, the men are thinking about how they’re going to feed the family.

Can they get any money for their sheep? Because the. Bottom completely dropped out of the meat market. How were they gonna, you know, if they don’t have enough grazing, how are they going to afford a bag of oats? The women are not talking about that. The women are talking about their children, their health, the women are talking about.

They’re worried about the, daughter’s not going to school because it’s such a relatively, relatively new that universal education. Women want their daughters to be educated. So a lot of the things I heard were, you know, we’re really worried are our children are missing out. Our girls are missing [00:38:00] out on their education.

We want them to have a different life from us. So that was fascinating for me. And I felt it as like a, an additional gift that I was able to mix with both sides of it. Gender defined God. Wow. And so after two, two months there, you sort of finished it. Where whereabouts was it? Where did it finish? So the, the point, because we were doing this whole all the way through Morocco, but we’d started in the middle.

So my, my three-part rocker journey was I did the middle first. I did the last bit second if you were doing north to south and I did the first bit last, and the reason for that was partly that it had grown out of the dry expedition. I had such a fun time. Steak experience on the dry expedition. And it was so fascinating and rich, I thought, yeah, I’m just continuing.

And then it was weather related, you know, the Sahara you can only do in adventuring season, really between October and March, March and the Atlas, we spent our whole time in the [00:39:00] Atlas yeah. In that burning heat. And then by the end, we have snow on the mountains and we were so worried that. Two weeks. I’d say we were, we were trying to keep ahead of the snow fall because if the snow had fallen heavily, which account at that time a year we’d have been trapped, or if there’d been a very big flood rain, rainfall, and snow melt, we we’d been trapped.

So again, I think the fascinating thing about long expeditions, this is whether the company sure. So important. It’s not just that like, oh, nice weather we’re having today. No coming it’s the co is, have you heard any snow and things like that. So you’re always thinking ahead to the next, the next type of weather you’re going to encounter.

Wow. And so these sort of communities, how are they sort of holding up now? Well, it’s, we’ve just had to eat a lot at heart, which is the big holiday and we’re in the Muslim stomach world, which marks the, the feast of the sacrifice. [00:40:00] When God asks. I have to sacrifice the sun. And then at the last minute substituted different.

A goat or sheep. And it’s a big deal here as it is everywhere in the Muslim world is really, it’s a very religious moment. Everybody praise him when he goes to the mosque and everybody remembers and is grateful for the things that we have. But it’s also finding time. So we will come together. So this year, last year, the government.

Was supplying the people with extra food because it’s a feast, you know, it’s like Christmas, people want to have extra food for their families and this year they weren’t. So it was tighter for people in this rural community. And. Really, every family wants to have a sheep or a goat. It’s very much the tradition, the father of the house slaughters.

It it’s part of the whole ritual of Thanksgiving effectively. And also to have the meat because people here don’t eat very much meat. I think they [00:41:00] probably eat in a week. What a Western person would eat, eat in one meal, actually SPE two meals. And so things were hard to hear. So the community. Always works together and people have a bit more giveaway.

And when you, even, when you have your sheep, they you’re meant to eat a third giveaway, two thirds. I think in a mill, for example, where I live, it’s very much. Tracking village we’re right at the heart of the outspokenness world, the gateway to north Africa’s highest mountain mud to count. I don’t know if you’ve climbed it yet as welcome.

So it has the feeling of one of those Nepalese tracking villages. So here there’s like loads of meals, loads of ’em for baggage. There are loads and loads of guides, and there’s lots of very small sheets nicer hotels as it’s geared up for that backpacking industry. And of course it hasn’t been anything.

Buy me a year and a half. [00:42:00] So what, but it’s also agricultural. So where I live, I live above the Walnut trees. So my terrorists is because I’m built on a mountain. The Walnut tree tips come over the top of my terrorists, which is really pretty. So I look out into a sea of green, very rich agriculturally here.

It’s very rich ground. So everybody has a small farm. The cow for that, I live in the family, compound the cabin in front, under my bedroom and the chickens just live at that window down below. So you might hear them. So everybody’s reasonably self-sufficient. So I don’t think this area suffered as much as some of the citizens.

Where they can’t fall back on, you know, tending their gardens, doing the farming a bit harder, at least getting your staple, vegetables, your potatoes, carrots, onions, getting milk from the cow. You might have a couple of sheep or goats that, you know, You can use through the year you’ve got chickens, you can get the eggs.

So I think here people were slightly better off, but what nobody’s been [00:43:00] able to do is what I constantly hear is, is progress plan for the future. Take any risks people have been building, because again, they just do it with local, local materials, you know, get the stones out of the river valley. You get the mud fit further up the river.

Or you might buy some cement. And then because nobody’s working, a lot of people are guides or hotel sheet Oberg who was here in owners. All the men get together and build things. So we see a lot of buildings, but people haven’t been able to progress with their lives. And I think that’s been a huge frustration as it has for everybody, but there’s no in a community like this, you wouldn’t have a family going hungry because everybody else would team together to get them.

God. Yeah, it’s, it’s always it always comes back to sort of knock, knock these sort of groups out rarely, and there’s always the ones that. [00:44:00] Struggle. But no, it’s, it’s incredible. And I have to say I’m slightly jealous of where you are at the moment. It’s the, it’s just like the most incredible place.

Alice was very kind to sort of show me her view just before the podcast started. We would have done it outside, but it’s too windy. You have to sit in. It’s so hot here at the moment that during the day you tend to sit inside between kind of tenants. Five with the windows shut, which sounds awful. And then you, you try and do your outside vets in the morning or in the evening.

Although last week I did go on a 13 hour hike. Which, yeah, it was that long because I’m so unfair and I’m so fat at the moment. So it’s, self-inflicted those magnums during lockdown. My God, it really took out to me. I, by the end of it, because the sun is, you know, it’s pretty hot and we’re at high altitude, started off at 1,750 meters.

And the first climb was 1200 meters straight up. [00:45:00] Oh, man, by the time I got to the top, I was huffing and puffing like a demon, but it was great. And again, it was one of those things I kind of woke up in the morning and I thought, oh man, I don’t want to do this. But I booked, I booked guide. One of the things I like to do is work with the local guides because they are amazing.

I get so much information. I have so much fun. And also frankly, you know, walking up a mountain, you don’t know on your own is stupid. So I didn’t want to let my guide. I thought I had everything ready the night before, so I had their excuses went up and then of course, as you’re doing it, you’re part of you just enjoys it so much.

You know, meeting shepherds on the top of the peak who made us a cup of tea, cup of hot sweet tea, and then finding out when he looked up this chapter to Vegas, teeny little teapot boiled on some scrubs. Two bushes and he’d been tending the Tisa. His face was done the whole time. And then when he looked up, we worked out that he was the [00:46:00] shepherd I’ve met on the very first day after the first lockdown.

When we were sorry about your pieces, come out. When we were allowed out, I went on a walk up my local pass and he was at the top of the past and really. Incredibly unusually and Rocco and, and not to know in any way, a kind of aggressive way. He gave me a kiss on the cheek because he was so relieved to be out of lockdown.

And I was so relieved to be out, locked down and we’d shared a cup of tea then as well. And imagine meeting him on that 13 hour hike the other day, it was just so nice. Wow. I mean, it has some incredible stories of Morocco and. You know, some of the stuff you’ve done over the year is truly incredible. And I imagine you’ve got quite a few more planned for the future ahead.

I have it’s quite interesting at this time, crone, I don’t know how everyone else is managing. I ha I have got an expedition on what to do. It’s not actually a Morocco and I don’t want to be too expensive to buy to at the moment because it feels very far away from being real. [00:47:00] So the way I’m trying to think of my, you know, my, my, my work at the moment is I’m going to continue to explore in the country while flights and traveling are so complicated, you know, literally you can leave a country and then the next thing you’re not allowed back into it, which has happened to me.

So I think, yeah. I think one has to be a bit, you just have to weigh up what you’re going to do. So loads of things to do in Rocca, there’s an area in the north where this big national park where they’ve got Eagles, I haven’t explored yet. So I’m thinking of going up there. I might get back on my bike and cycle to Essaouira which will kill me because I haven’t been on by boat for so long, but I think sometimes just do stuff and worry about it after, and then I’m planning this big expedition, which will be outside of Morocco.

And I’m hoping to get some traction on that and to start, yeah. Wrecking for it in the autumn and doing it promptly in a year’s time next autumn, [00:48:00] which, which feels very long away, but these big expeditions where you’re trying to explore a little bit. Breaking a little bit of new ground. They do take adventures of one thing.

Cause adventurous in a way, especially if you do an organized one, which are absolutely fantastic and which I love and which I would jump at doing in between. I, one thing, but if you’re organizing itself, you know, having to get. By camels or higher camels or find a route, find guides navigate the governments of the different countries.

Because I think, I don’t know if people understand this, but for example, in Rocco, if you want to go off the beaten track in the way that I was, you need government position permission. We have to send our coordinates every single night to the Chandon robbery, the police force and the military when we were military zones.

There’s none of that hidden secret, you know, going under the radar, there is no under the radar here. And I think that’s true for an awful lot [00:49:00] of the countries that I I’m particularly interested in traveling. And, and also there’s no, I mean, I’m trying to publicize what I do, so I’m not trying to be under the radar and in fairness.

But I think people might be surprised at how much time and effort you need to get the government. On side because it’s national government, but it’s also local government and regional government usually. And then you might also have to get the army on site. Yeah. Planning, planning, expeditions do, does take an enormous amount.

It’s actually probably the hardest part of the expedition is getting it off the ground. I mean, once you start, you know, everything about it, so. That’s the main bit, but getting everything sorted, fundraising, the equipment, it’s all great fun, but yeah, it takes a lot of work. And do you find it? I mean, I’m, I find it daunting.

I really find, I find it daunting. I’m like, how am I going to do this? I D the countries [00:50:00] I’m going to, I don’t know anyone there. I don’t know a single person. How am I even going to start this? You know, far less get a meeting with the minister of, and the team. I mean, it really is genuinely quite kind of, well, it can be quite paralyzing.

I think you just have to start. Well, Alice is a part of the podcast where we asked the same five questions to each guest each week with the first one being, what gadget do you always take on your expedition? I always take an expert stove and to Tanium mug with the lead, which is a pot so that I can make a, some some, you know, little compressed fuel so that I can make myself a cup of tea in my tent.

If it’s Gale force winds, that I can’t go over to the best 10 or cookout. What is your favorite adventure or travel book? I like [00:51:00] everything written by Francis stark. She is a heroine of mine and she wrote one about the assassins, which is about traveling through the the valleys in where the original assassin, the word comes from there.

And they, they were a group of blokes who basically were high on hashish all the time. Hence the name and were guns for hire. So. I love. Frehstart very nice. Why are adventures important to you? I think they make me feel fully alive and they give a structure to my life and they increased learning and they allowed me to communicate stories to other people and to bring in a little bit of sometimes a little bit of enjoyment and pleasure to other people, which I really enjoy.

But yeah, they make me feel fully alive. That’s the thing. Very nice. What about your favorite quote? I will never surrender [00:52:00] Winston Churchill. It was it. Was there a bit more to it or just, I will never surrender. No, I think I’ve misquoted him horribly, but I didn’t do any research, but that’s the, I actually took and I know he’s not very fashionable at moment, but I do think if you want to just think about resilience and keeping going, when things look really, really, really dark.

Really impossible to win. I would have said that for many people, the thought of Britain and the allies winning the war at some stages was impossible. If you listen to some Churchill speeches, I actually took one of the speeches on the marathon. They solver with me on my phone just in case, but it was about, you know, in the docs the times just we will never.

Yeah, I think on one of my trips, someone had put a little Quate of Churchill, which was winning I’m going to ask cause I’ve completely forgotten it, but it was like, winning is not permanent. Failure is not [00:53:00] fatal. It is the courage to continue that. That’s a beautiful quote, you know, and there’s another one by Maya Angelou, which I have on my website, which I also really, really love, but it’s it I’m going to paraphrase it cause I’m not very good at remembering.

And it basically says you know, I’m not gonna, I’m not going to eradicate intolerance by traveling, but maybe by showing people that we’re all basically the same that we all laugh, we all cry. We all hurt. We’re all hungry. We can at least become friends and that’s, that’s kind of. Another really kind of beautiful sentiment.

So it says, I think adventuring and exploring between those two things. Aren’t they, they are between having to have some resilience and determination, but also that having that desire to, to be part of this human family, to be part of this beautiful, amazing planet, and to share that with others and add, to try and promote, even within yourself, promote tolerance and understanding and patience, and there’s things that you learn because.

[00:54:00] I mean, I, you know, I I’ve impatient, I’ve got Celtic temperament and you, you just have to try and overcome those personal obstacles as well. For moving through people, listening are always keen to travel and go on these sort of grand adventures. What’s the one thing you would recommend to people wanting to get started, be realistic.

And I don’t mean curb your enthusiasm. I mean, literally think about how are you going to get the money to do it. Yeah. Or the opportunity to do it. Is it attainable? Is that, is your dream maybe step two. How are you going to w what’s what’s your exact aim with what you’re doing? You know, is it because you want to do a TV program or to write your book bites?

It is because you just want to do the adventure. Can you pay for yourself? Do you need to get someone else to do it because that will change how you approach things. So I think. Mine. Mine is very boring. I think, look at the kind of practicalities of it. If you can seek advice from others, there were so many [00:55:00] great podcasts like that where people could give you advice, reach out, you know, I mean, I’m always willing to share advice and, and just, just ask around them.

And usually the community is very helpful. I would say. Yeah. I, I mean, I, I try if people have a specific question that they want answering about travel a place in central Asia. I mean, I recently had someone who’s out in central Asia asked me about Tajikistan. And as you say, I didn’t know, I can’t speak for others, but when someone’s like, oh, you know, how is Tajikistan or somewhere suddenly I’m in there.

A roll of just really enough, the best places, because it just brings back these incredible memories. And I think people love sharing those moments.

Say. Yeah, it’s definitely yeah, something I, I always like to hear from people. [00:56:00] Finally, what are you doing now? And how can people follow you and find you in the future? Right now, I’m back living in the mountains, in my small Amasya community, Berber community. I am podcasting blogging. Trying to get fit again so that my next height doesn’t take 13 hours planning for the next adventure.

I’ve just written a book, so I have to do some revisions. So I’m in that kind of stage of things. Also having been banned from Rocca for six months because of Corona, I got stuck in the UK. I’m keen to do a bit kind of continue exploring locally and seeing things I haven’t seen. People can contact me best ways through my website because all my links are on there.

It’s allosaurus and.co.uk. But I am Alice out there. One on Twitter, Instagram, and tick-tock, I’m a new tick-tock star, by the way, I’ve put up, I’ve put up my third video got 95,000 views. I know, I know it’s [00:57:00] so funny. I’m not, obviously not a Tik TOK star, but I’ve just started putting up just little videos from the hikes and, you know, meeting and goat and also having tea with people.

Those two are parallel, but yeah, so everything’s on my website. Alice watson.co.uk, including the books, the podcast, Alice in Wonderland. I think that’s enough stuff for promotion. Well, it’s been absolutely amazing listening to your stories and I cannot thank you enough for coming on the podcast today.

My pleasure. It’s so much fun to be allowed to talk about the adventures. Usually like if you try and talk to friends and family, their eyes just glaze, they’re not interested. And as I say, it’s just, it’s just great fun listening and speaking about adventures. It’s one of the best things about this.

Can I only say one thing as well? Is that you know, I I’ve been lucky cause I built up to doing some really amazing stuff and, but, but anyone can [00:58:00] do this literally, you know, if I can set off a cycle across Africa, after training in front of strictly come dancing on the turbo and not even do that very well, it really is.

If you want to do something, just, just really do, go for it. It will be worth it. It doesn’t matter where it takes you. And don’t think you need to know all the answers before you start. I, I didn’t know. I was going to end up living in Morocco, walking. The whole of Morocco is six Campbell’s, one called Hamish.

I came to run the marathon. They solved. Like I stayed. Life is an adventure. It does lead you places, just be open to where it leads you and it’s always worth it. And don’t worry about what other people think at all, because it doesn’t matter, truthfully. It really doesn’t. Unless they’re going to put you in prison, that it does well.

Are you gay? What are you waiting for?

Alice? Thank you so much.

Well, that is it for today. [00:59:00] Thank you so much for watching and I hope you got something out of it. If you did hit that like button and subscribe, if you haven’t already die, we’ll see you in the next video. .

Marsha Jean

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Marsha Jean (Adventurer)

On the podcast today we have an adventurer and explorer from Hong Kong.

At 18 Marsha Jean left her abusive home and bought a one-way ticket to Australia. She wanted to spend all the money she had, and commit suicide.

Throwing herself into the real world broke all the beliefs her parents and society had put in her. Today on the Podcast we talk about her early travels and about her incredible adventures in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Marsha’s Website

Marsha’s Instagram

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Transcript of our Conversation

Marsha Jean

[00:00:00] Marsha Jean: Hello and welcome to the modern adventurer podcast coming up. And one Cod did was to local men. They picked me up, I shared a backseat with the sheep, and instead of driving me into the NACE village, they took a right turn into the Bush. And in that moment I thought, okay, so here. This is the bad moment that everybody’s going to experience and they drop me.

We arrived at a huge gates, the gate opened, and that was this big, beautiful house full of beautiful woman, all dressed up, which was very strange. And in my mind, I thought maybe I stumbled into a human trafficking. Okay.

[00:01:00] if you’ve enjoyed the podcast so far, please feel free to subscribe and to join this incredible community. Today on the podcast, we have an extraordinary gas. Marsha Jean has traveled all over the world, leaving home at 18 with a one-way ticket to Australia, unknown to what was about to happen. She has traveled all parts of the world from Afghanistan to Tajikistan.

She did a 19 day Trek with a donkey in the whack and corner. And today on the podcast, we talk about some of her incredible experiences around the world. So I am delighted to introduce Marsha Jean to the podcast. Thank you for having me here. Silly pleasure. Well, I mean, you’ve done [00:02:00] some incredible stuff from such a young age.

I mean, for the last six years you’ve been traveling all over the world. Probably for everyone listening, who doesn’t know you best place to start is how you got started with this life of travel. I actually got started in a rather grim way. I went, I booked a one-way ticket to Australia. I was 18 and I actually run away.

I just ran away from home and I wanted to commit suicide after traveling with what money I had. And that didn’t happen. And I ended up getting a job and then travel and then just kept going well, she’s God. That’s incredible. So what it sort of started from quite a dark place with no sort of plan in sight did.

So the [00:03:00] first stop was Australia. Yeah. And then you, what you were there for sort of 10 a year or so working away before you sort of took the leap to sort of travel solo. Yeah. It was that traveling and working for 10 months around, and then I went to Southeast Asia and then went to Iran and then Europe and worked in London.

And then went to central Asia. Nice. Well, I mean, I know essential Asia quite well because you’ve done this incredible trip in the wakhan corridor with a donkey. Yeah. And how did you come up with this idea for it? So, Ashley, okay. How I really started was I watched the movie called Walter meter. And it’s a movie about a guy [00:04:00] going to the, to Afghanistan, to chase after a photographer.

Then I Googled about that place, which is the walk-on corridor. Then I found guides, travel guides on someone’s blog, talking about how it was quite possible to foreigners and foreigners have always gone there. To high animals and go on tracks. So I just had to do, I have to try it myself. So I did well and see what you hide a, a mule or a donkey.

And then where whereabouts did you sort of start and go from? So I started in a village close to Sahad. And so how does basically the last village reachable by car in the walk-on corridor? It’s the last [00:05:00] village they can reach by car before going deep into the walk-on. You could either go to what they call the big Familia or the little premiere.

I went into the little permit. Got it. And so what you were sort of hiding, I mean, I know the whack hand corridor and that’s. Very isolated, especially when you go off the main road, you know, you’re in the mountains. I mean, for anyone listening, the mountains are sort of six, 7,000 meters high. And it’s absolutely incredible scenery there.

I mean, were you completely cut off for the time that you were there? Yes. I didn’t have any cell signal. Yes, no internet of course. No electricity during the Trek and relied on fruit that I carried with [00:06:00] me. So the owner of the donkey, he comes along with me and on the way, when we pass by some cookies, nomadic settlements, we will stay with them overnight.

And sometimes we kept sometimes we’ve slept in. Sort of these abandoned shelters built for shepherds and yet lasted for 19 days. Wow. And what was the sort of some of the amazing moments that you had along that? Because, I mean, I imagine a lot of people, especially over the last year and a half being sort of locked up, hidden away to have that sort of sense of freedom to sort of just explore.

And be well, Elaine is probably not the right word, but to be sort of isolated there, away from it all. How, how was it best experience of my life? [00:07:00] I really push my comfort zone there because I’ve never being so far away from Malden. Commodities that no, I was in a place that was completely foreign to me.

I had no idea what people would be. Like. I had no idea what would happen to me. I had no idea. I was completely relying on people’s kindness and generosity and my own willpower to. For so long and so far away from everyone, no contact to the world. And I, it pushed really pushed my comfort zone really far.

And I have learnt a lot from this Jenny, [00:08:00] what was some of the lessons that you took away from it? For example, I learned that. Even more remote corners of the world. People know who Jackie Chan is.

Okay. But for real, I, I learnt that we really know nothing about this world and that this world is really full of amazingly kind and generous people and that we should not be afraid of this world. I learned that there are many ways to live and just because they don’t have things like electricity, schoolings and hospitals doesn’t mean that they can’t have a very, very fulfilling life.

I think we had Ava Zubek on recently [00:09:00] and we both spoke about quite in depth about the sort of kindness of strangers and people in the sort of Asian communities, how they’re sort of sometimes perceived by worldwide press and media and sort of slightly negative connotations, but, or perceptions. And actually some of the amazing things that happen when you go traveling is that you break the break, these sort of preconceptions down and you see such an amazing part of humanity.

Did you find that on your travels? Absolutely. Yes. It actually made me feel sad about my own society. So I’m from Hong Kong and I really. I would have never people at home go on a nice kind or as [00:10:00] generous or as hospitable as the people I’ve met in Afghanistan at that time. And it really, it really made me realize just how much we are wrong about people in this world.

Like people we are told to be afraid of it. The most are the people who have been the kindest to me. Yeah. Well, what is it about, why do you think it was sort of differences in sort of Hong Kong society and Afghan society? I would say the culture with hospitality is different. And also because we are such a big city and there are so many people it’s not.

Like if I see your foreigner in my city, I will not feel, or I have not been taught how to be hospitable or [00:11:00] feel like I need to treat this person as a special guest because they are in my home. In the Afghan society and a lot of other cultures around the world, you are sort of treated as sort of royalty.

When you, when you meet these people, they invite you into your home, into the home and, you know, tea, eggs, whatever it may be. They’re very, very welcoming. Yes. I wouldn’t say royalty, but treats me like a guest and how you should treat the guest in my opinion. Yes. Yeah. And so from, from that, is that where you went into central Asia, bought a bike and decided to cycle, as they say.

So I went to Afghanistan after I had cycled CHRO. [00:12:00] Can I guess Stan and Tajikistan. Oh, okay. And so what was the reason behind that trip? Was it about experiencing the sort of countries in a unique way? Yeah, so after leaving London, I arrived in Bishkek and with the plan to track across central Asia, because that’s how I usually try to.

Oh my checking. But then on my first day of arriving, I met a girl who told me that she walked 13 days across the premiere highway and she, she was traveling through, by a car at first by shared taxis. And she just felt like she was in a box. All the time passing through villages that she wanted to stop over.

So she just walked out of the car [00:13:00] and started walking. She had no tent, no map, no plan. And after hearing her story, I knew that I cannot travel by checking. And so I decided to buy a bicycle. And yeah, we, we had Charlie Walker on that. I think the very first episode, and we, because we’ve both done cycle touring before, like yourself, it’s such an amazing way to see, I’d say countries because you are going at a quick enough pace to make up ground, but also you can always stop and people are very sort of accommodating, especially when you’re on your own.

They sort of see you them properly, you know, feel a little bit sorry for me as I was sort of going through, but you know, they, they sort of stop and you can easily stop, have a conversation and through conversation, it sort of opens doors [00:14:00] to new experiences. Yeah, of course you miss out on all these little things that make.

Your trip special. And also with, without a car you are completely engaged in your surroundings. You feel like you’re really you’re with the mountains. Do you know what I mean? And it’s very different. And also the physical challenge that comes with it makes the reward more sweet and. Yeah. Yeah. I mean they, these right raise, especially in sort of tourist fleet difficult you must have, did you find it quite sort of challenging on the bike?

Absolutely. Yes. And when I started, I had barely had any experience cycling actually was not particularly [00:15:00] fit took me much longer than the average cycle. To go through the premier highway. But it’s possible if you have time and the willpower. Yeah. I, I, I w I think when I first started, as I say, you pick up the fitness.

Quite quickly, you just go at your own pace, I guess some days, like I go five kilometers and then I’m like, oh, that’s enough. Yeah. I think I think it will say was quite nice, especially, probably doing that is that you you’re at 4,000 meters. Instead of Tajikistan when you are cycling. So for anyone listening and he’s like, whoa, that’s not very far.

The altitude can get you quite quickly. [00:16:00] Yes. Absolutely. When I have, when I pass the highest point, which was around I think 4,600 meters, I had to stop really every three seconds to catch my breath. I couldn’t breathe. Yeah. I mean, I sort of count myself lucky because when I was sort of cycling up the Alps, you had Tom act.

Right. Whereas when we were going through central Asia and saw the sort of cyclists going through. You know, you are on track you a rebel and say cycling, they’ve a rubble 4,000 meters up an incredibly steep hill. For anyone listening, you know, I cannot stress how difficult that is. Yeah, it was, it was not the easiest.

Not that easy as well in a row for sure. And how far did you get on the bike? Touchy [00:17:00] Christan and then I try to go to China, but I couldn’t because people from Hong Kong needed Kind of a special card to go to China and I couldn’t get it. So I flew to Pakistan and then I took a bus up to the north and then I cycled across the character.

Ah, okay. Yep. And how was that? It’s a beautiful experience. People in Northern Pakistan were very, very nice to me and really sweet and warm and welcoming. What is it about Pakistan? Do you feel that you love so much as a Chinese girl, people go crazy over you. They are, they want, they want to feed you all the food they have in their house.

And they, they want to, yeah, they, they want to treat you like a queen. And [00:18:00] really I was. Everyday just surprised. And it was mind blowing, absolutely mind blowing how nice and the people were, how hospitable the people. Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s something, you know, we hear again and again, especially in Pakistan is just how sort of accommodating and welcoming the are to strangers in their home.

And so in Pakistan, foreigners, sorry, foreigners to to foreigners. And so in Pakistan, where did you, were you there for quite a period of time? Yes, I was going to stay 45 days. It ended up being six months. Well, yeah. And what were you doing in those six months in [00:19:00] Pakistan? Oh, I was exploring many different places.

After exploring the north, I explored central Pakistan. And the south and so many things, these were happening all the time. I got invited to many different events, such as the show, a Stan desert rally the air force and fire at me to the ski competition. Even though I told them I couldn’t ski, but they were like, oh yeah, you can still compete.

Okay. And It was very easy to make friends. So I made a lot of friends and Lyft with many of them and it just slowly ended up six months.

And yeah, it’s, it’s just one of those things [00:20:00] in In those countries. I mean, there’s such amazing events going on. What were the sort of highs and lows of that place? I would say the highest was when I was cycling through the north. Really? It, that was the best moment of my time in Pakistan, the beauty of the nature, the hospitality, and Yeah.

And the lowest is probably when I got tired of the attention of the men there. So at times it can really get too much plays as a sort of silo, female traveler. You’ve been traveling for God so long. I mean, I probably imagine a lot of people. [00:21:00] When they first start out traveling, have all these horror stories that they hear about.

What’s have there been moments of trouble along the way when you are traveling. So I have been lucky. I never really had moments of really life threatening situations. And of course I’ve had trouble while hitchhiking I’ve had trouble with. Some men who followed me or try to verbally harassed me and so on.

Yeah, I don’t have crazy stories, life threatening situations. Yeah. I S I suppose what I sort of like to sort of hear is because. You know, even me when I first sort of started out, you always do hear these sort of [00:22:00] stories. I don’t know whether it’s sort of bought on you sort of school and people sort of telling the stories of far-flung places.

And I mean, if you listen to the news for long enough, eventually you’ll be terrified about anything. But what I sort of love to hear is that, you know, in your six years of traveling very few. Moments of trouble have really occurred. And you know, you, you’re always traveling. You’re always putting yourself sort of out into vulnerable spots, whether it’s wild, camping, and you know, I’m a big advocate for wild camping.

And I just think it’s great to sort of hear stories. You know, amazing times rather than the sort of one tiny micro percent that will always be plussed it up. Yes. Even if I’ve had, even [00:23:00] if I do experience bad moments, these moments count for probably less than 1% of everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s it’s I think it’s the same everywhere you go.

99% generally incredibly hospitable. And you know, as we’re speaking about the sort of kindness of strangers and foreigners helping you out along your troubles, hearing your story, which I think is, you know, fantastic to sort of hear about of kindness. Yes. I have a good one. So. I was in Tajikistan and I had been sick for almost two weeks and I was cycling, trying to pass through this road, which was between two villages.

[00:24:00] It was right next to a cliff. So when the sun set it. There was nowhere I could camp. So I waited on the road or a car to pass by it. And one car did with two local men. They picked me up, I shared a backseat with the sheep and instead of driving me into the NACE village, they took a right turn into the Bush.

And that moment I thought, oh, okay. So here it is, this is the bad moment that everybody’s going to experience and they dropped me. We arrived at it, huge gates. The gate opened that was this big, beautiful house full of beautiful women, all dressed up, which was very strange. And in my mind, I thought maybe I [00:25:00] stumbled into a human trafficking gang.

So. But then one lady, she came to me and then finally I understood that they actually were going to have a wedding and they invited me to the wedding. I stayed for three days and

they really accepted me like a family. For someone like me that didn’t really have a good family experience. That was really a really I’ve lost my English. That was, yeah, it was a really touching moment. Yes. In my trip. [00:26:00] Oh yeah. I forgot to say that night, when they took me in, I realized my phone had dropped out of my bicycle and my bicycle was on top of the car and I told him, oh, okay.

It was an old phone. I mean, I lost it. Nothing like there’s no point to sad. And then. Half an hour later, one of the men who drove me there, came into the house and put my phone on the table. So he had gone back in the middle of the night to look for my phone on the road, even though I told him, you know, I cannot, I, where else is this going to happen?

That someone. Go in the middle of the night to look for your phone that was dropped in the road somewhere.

Wow. No, it’s, [00:27:00] it’s amazing what some people do and you know, there’s such an amazing travel community out there, which I’m always sort of helping others as well. Yeah.

It’s incredible. And so your sort of with COVID and everything you’re sort of dotting about from Mexico to Australia. Yes. So, I mean, really right now, and your plan is to stay there for a period of time. I really don’t know. But I know for sure that my. Next adventure is going to be back in the middle east.

Okay. And what sort of adventure is you planning on having there? Well, really like to continue my bike trip. My bike is in Pakistan right now. If [00:28:00] the pandemic didn’t happen, I would have gone back and cycled through India into Tibet, but right now, I think India is going to be off everybody’s list for awhile.

So I’m thinking of the Arabic peninsula. It will be amazing to do by trip, bike tour all over. Maybe you circumnavigate the Arabic peninsula, including east Africa. Yeah, God. Wow. I mean, you ha Marsha, you have some incredible stories to tell and I’m sure there’ll be a few more to come in the coming years.

There’ll be more. Well, there’s a part of the show where we ask the same five questions to each guest each week with the first being, what’s the sort of one gadget that you always take with you. So I always take this [00:29:00] little alarm with me. That it will be triggered if you pull the pin out. And at night I will attach one part of it to my bike.

And one part of it to my tent, this is to prevent someone from stealing it, or at least I would know, or also it adds a little bit of safety if I put my bike in front of my close to my door. So if somebody tries to get in, they might trigger the alarm and then. Yeah, that’s very clever little thing. Yeah.

I’m surprised not more people do it. What’s your favorite adventure or travel book? I really don’t have one. Why are adventures important to you? Because it makes me feel alive and I feel like I am not. [00:30:00] Growing or evolving if I’m not pushing my comfort zone. What about your favorite quote?

Perfect coat.

Yeah. We only regret the chances that we didn’t take. Yeah. I think there’s a sort of study of old people and like an old people’s home and it was always the things that they record, they regret. And it’s always the thing that they didn’t do rather than the things they did do or the things they never said rather than the things they actually say.

Yeah, no, very nice. And people listening are always keen to travel and go on these sort of grant expeditions and adventures. What’s the one thing you would recommend for people wanting to get started? I recommend doing things that. Push yourself out of your [00:31:00] own comfort zone. I think that you can train yourself into being more comfortable of getting out of the comfort zone.

So for example, things like taking a dance class or doing, learning a new spot that you don’t think you would ever be competent enough to do. And these small steps will build up the courage for you to finally take a big step. Well, I think dance class would certainly put me out of my comfort zone and if dance classes, don’t try maybe pole dancing classes.

There are, yeah, that might be a step. Yeah. So I think, yeah. These things well, build it, build up your courage to take that first step eventually. [00:32:00] Amazing. And what are you doing now and how can people find you and follow you on your future adventures? I’m quarantining in Australia at the moment, and I am actually learning filmmaking on my own because I want to make films in the future while traveling.

You can find me on Instagram. She will like to follow my ventures. Very nice. Well, Marcia, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It’s been absolutely incredible hearing your stories. And as I say, going back to central Asia where I was three years ago, I mean, such an incredible place and I always loved talking about it.

Yeah. It’s a special place. Well go check Instagram outs and a website and you can see some more stories to come. I’m sure by Marsha, [00:33:00] thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. Well, that is it for today. Thank you so much for watching and I hope you got something out of it. If you did hit that like button and subscribe, if you haven’t already, and I will see you in the next video.

David Haze

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David Haze (Adventurer)

In today’s episode, we have David Haze, David has a life now full of adventure but it is a life that is very different to the one before his arrest. Previously, David had struggled with gambling after his business was unsuccessful and this caused him to make questionable choices. He succumbed to the slippery slope of crime but was quick to realise his mistakes, admitting that he let his hunger for adventure “slip away” during this period. The prison was an opportunity for David to rethink his actions, and he set the course for world records and helping people into adventure. Today on the podcast we talk about his experiences and how he has changed.

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Transcript of our Conversation

Nomadic Paddler

[00:00:00] Nomadic Paddler: I mean the first one, the first climate committee, please sort of bring the, all the time saying, you know, you’re going to jail, you’re going to jail. And I didn’t tell anyone. I kept this all to myself by no much bottom up. And, and through that, I saw how the door supposed to break down and the time came corpse.

And now they end up disappearing for five weeks, which then resulted in crimes committed. So.

my next guest is an adventurer and stand up paddle boarder. He uses that experience to drive him forward and uses adventures to pursue a more meaningful life. Today on the podcast, we talk about some of his adventures and about some of the amazing stuff he has done over the last year. So I am delighted to introduce David Hayes to the show.

Thanks for [00:01:00] having me. No worry. It’s an absolute pleasure. And you’ve been pretty busy in the last couple of months doing breaking bread chords up and down the UK. I mean, I can’t wait to sort of hear about. But before we start let’s for people listening, let’s hear about you and how you got into this sort of world of adventure and paddle boarding.

Yeah. I mean, growing up, I always used to love adventure. As a child, I would always be outside. You know, my mom would struggle getting me back inside. I went to military school as well, so. When, when on the weekends, there’s a boarding school, we’d always go into the woods. Playing would congregate, we’d get off, you know, off our dads and our moms are in the military.

And it was like, we were older. I moved to London and I sort of just lost their sense of adventure. I got rattle, rattle battens as well that I was in, in London. And I realized I was stuck in a rut. And I was trying to think, what, what is it, why am I not living? A fulfilled life. Why am I not happy? And I sort of put my finger on it.

It was adventure. I [00:02:00] used to love adventure. I mean, I almost to myself to getaway for adventure and I created this motto for my own personal life. It’s through adventure. We live. So I try and live my life now through this motto. Oh, very nice. And so you’ve sort of, how long have you been paddle boarding? Oh, yeah.

I think paddle boarding for about, probably about six years now. I got in, I served for life in those days when I couldn’t go surfing. I mean, especially in UK, down in Bournemouth I turned paddleboarding. What I loved was the extra sense of freedom that it gives me very, very true. I mean, down on the case, you, you’re very lucky to have that.

And I suppose in the last sort of few years, you sort of been building up to this sort of thing. What was the sort of trigger apart from the sort of work? Was it sort of, you quit work and you decided, or you quit that sort of line of work, and then you decided I’m going to pursue. Yeah. So I quit that line of work did [00:03:00] some passionate about which is supporting team.

So I’ve been consulted with the criminal justice system. So I started really passionate about I’m trying to do the adventure as well for full-time career. So I’ve came back down into boards. And then I notice with the whole paddleboarding as well, something like that, but the expiration near the venture side of the school, we haven’t even hit the limit of where we can get to at the moment.

So, you know, we install these magazines and watch all these people, these adventures, I’m thinking, why can’t I go out and do this? You know? So that’s what I’m trying to do now. So go out there. And so it’d be one of the guys at the front and pushing the boundaries of paddleboard. And would you say with that sort of prison reform, because I.

[00:04:00] Four consecutive days and attempt to achieve four world records on each one. And so what was the sort of as you say, you’ve got Alliance of sport on your shirt right now, what was the sort of, was that, was that the sort of charity sponsor for it? Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, what they do is they use the power sports in the criminal justice system to help tackle reform and rehabilitation, which, you know, such a worthy cause.

And what I like when I take on any sort of challenges I like working with the smaller charities. I mean, love what they did, what the charter of the big charities do. And I love all that work, but I think these small ones seem to get more recognition. And so tell us about this sort of paddle boarding and adventure.

You, what were the four lakes that you did? Yeah. So the longest one up in Scotland lock, or, and then you come down to England, which is like, Wyndham, Over to Northern Ireland where she got [00:05:00] lacunae and then you finish off in panoramic, which is in north Wales instead of Donia. Oh, very nice. I mean, I’ve been to the lake district and I had to say lake Windermere is just absolutely stunning.

It’s the sort of parts of it, which are just, just incredible. And I suppose just, as you say, say lucky to sort of. Huddle board, these sort of areas, it sort of gives you time and space to really absorb yourself into the landscape. Yeah. I mean, just even off the water, the Surrey, the scenery around it, it’s just so magnificent.

I think when you drive into these lakes as well, I think there should be warnings all over the road because all you’re doing is just try and look for everything or housing fortunately road. It’s just, it’s so beautiful. You there, it’s up to you. Love outlet. This expedition, you, did you have a support team for it?

Yes. We hired a camper van and I had my girlfriend had no school and water. So what happened? My girlfriend dropped me off at the beginning. I was in [00:06:00] contact with her for a VHF radio, and then she was there at the end. So I’ve got an, any trouble. I could radio radio, any support that I might need it. I mean, lakes like, like Windemere and Pattanaik, you know, this is the quite small one as low as support on there anyway, but the other two, I mean, look, can they straightaway naps?

I was blown away by the sheer size of it, but trying to get help on any of those two can be a lot more. Yeah. And so for people listening, who have never been to, let’s say these lakes, can you describe what they’re like? Yeah. So look all was up in the Highlands in Scotland. I mean, on paper, it’s the longest and the most narrow.

And I remember just going down when he’s back roads through imposter lake to get down to the stop. And there’s a point where the lake just opened up to me and I just saw it and I was like, wow, that’s actually pretty big. I was like, it doesn’t look that big on the map. So you’ve got time. And the thing is with Lockwood, it’s quite remote area as well.

I mean, getting down as the start of it and all it was was a [00:07:00] youth hostel where. And there was nothing else around. And when I go onto the lake, you just, you’re looking around and you can see nothing manmade or around you is you just felt so alone, but it felt so calm. So peaceful actually love every moment to be on that lake.

And same with like, and the view just over the lake. Just again it’s unbelievable. And were you quite lucky? I mean, when were you doing this? It was about three weeks ago. So June 14th is when I started. Oh, wow. Very recent. Were you lucky with the weather then? I was like, Lock or unlock Nate willing to stop, pick up, start to pick up for me and, you know, just start rolling some waves on there, which was quite surprised by the slides them considering it’s a lake as well.

But apart from that, that was all right. It wasn’t raining, which is all eczema. Good. And so you were doing this for the charity. Can [00:08:00] you sort of describe to people the sort of charity and maybe why. They’re sort of charities so important to you. Yeah. And so let’s say they use the power of sports you know, criminal justice and to help tackle, reform and rehabilitation and working in the industry.

I know a lot about the power of sport and you know, the power of rehabilitation. So I’ve experienced myself. And part of the reason that, you know, I do a lot of these ventures, you’ve sort of had experience. Yeah. I’ve, you know, I’ve done a bit of time inside before. And that’s why I sort of used the venture as a tool to live a much more meaningful life.

I mean, I think that’s what pushes me to get. Oh, very nice. And I suppose by having that past experience is sort of what, you know, can drive you now towards it. And I did this, sorry. And so it does it sort of help other people? Yeah. I mean, what I do [00:09:00] is I try to use my ventures platform to sort of still highlight the importance of reform rehabilitation.

I want to show other people like myself, that, you know, your past, don’t define who you are and mistakes. Don’t find you. The right commitment and attitude, you can continue anything virus. I want to try and change perspective on people like myself to create more positive and safer communities as well.

What sort of led you down that path? Did you, do you think. It was living in London. It was getting stuck in this stuck. You know, I do well working for myself working in Forex. And then I ended up losing my job. And then from that, you know, everything just spiraled up control for me. And to enter a big black hole one crying ended up getting another job.

And then from the from there, I ended up and go into more crime, which led me to end up. Do you think it was a sort of spiral as you say, [00:10:00] just going from one to the other? Yeah. I mean the first one, the first climate committee please sort of bring me all the time saying, you know, you’re going to jail, you’re going to jail.

And I didn’t tell anyone. I kept this all to myself by no much bottled up. And, and through that, I saw how to know the breakdown and the time came corpse. I, now I end up disappearing for five weeks, which then resulted in crimes committed to end up in prison. Got it. And so I suppose what’s so great is that as you say, from your experience on the insight you are now using as a tool to sort of help and inspire others and have you got more big plans for the summer ahead?

Yes. So I’m working with some other charities as well. They’re all sort of work around adventure prison reform. Next month I’m doing a three peaks and taken up some guys who’ve also done some time in jail. Who’ve never been out in nature. So doing that connect nature, trying to [00:11:00] Christian free, free pizza, 24 hours a day.

Then August on trialing our half ultra download on the drastic coast, which I’m really excited about September. I mean, to do the river Thames and a paddle that’s 208 kilometers attempting to do that nonstop, which would be another world record successful. Or they want to try and do the longest lake in Southern Ireland and then try and run this campaign out across Europe.

I mean, I think. No. You had Nick butts when you showed in the past. Yeah, so I mean, Nick butts he’s inspired me for these things. So, I mean, I’ve seen him run, you know, a friend’s book, running a marathon in every country in the world. And this seeing him do that, I was thinking, why can I not do the same?

Maybe even spoke to his agent, saw me quite a lot of advice as well. Yeah. And Nick bought a great, he was on the show, as you said earlier on, and he had such a great story and such a sort of positive outlook on life. [00:12:00] Thinking at the moment, he’s sort of trying to run round the UK in a hundred days or something.

Two marathons every day. Yeah. Yeah. He seems to be. And so was this your first big expedition with paddle boarding?

Back in September, I paddle boarded from port Harbor over to the . It’s 50 kilometers with a BPO two on board. But this is the first big planned expedition know I was against the clock here. All cause I’m trying to, in four consecutive days, I had to get from each leg to make sure that it could be an ordinance place.

And also, you know, the four world records. Yeah. In terms of sort of logistics for it, you, because, you know, as you say, technically, we’re still in a sort of lockdown, per se. Did you have any sort of trouble where. No. I mean, I was keeping a close eye on everything, so I don’t Glasgow and he just came out with what he locked down.

But [00:13:00] luckily enough, I was all right. You know, and especially, I mean, I was sort of catch myself anyway. I had this camper van you, any time you seem to be around people, it’s way more than the ferry going to from livable in terms of the lakes that you did, what, what do you sort of think was your sort of favorite moment from that trip?

No. It was getting into, when I came, when I came off, lock locked, name, the third one in Northern Ireland, I sat there, I promised myself I have a plane ticket and I saw the light. It was a tough one. It took me, you know, it was five hours, 11 minutes. How does pint of Guinness? I know that was one of my proudest moments in life and I was sitting I was thinking I could quit right now if I wants to, I think, you know, give it, give up.

We’ve got three well-bred quotes. Most that anybody holds in the paddleboarding world, I don’t think no, you know, quite a lot in my life. I, you know, normally I’m not going to quit and I’m going to carry on and I do this, I just had this fire inside me. I took that flyer. I went down to the pallet [00:14:00] lake. I remember just sitting inside the pallet.

Tired aching. And I have no idea where this energy just came from. I go on that leg, put my head down, went straight to the end. I had to come back again. Cause it’s such a short night when I got a really good time on that. I’m so proud of myself and it just was such an immense achievement as well. How long these lakes in terms of miles that you covered on.

Okay. Wait kilometers. Yeah. So look look, or was 40 kilometers. Lake Windermere was 18. Look, Nate was 38 and then pilot to the, to the end and back was 11 kilometers. Okay. And so you had to sort of wait there. Yeah, cause it shuts short. Shortly the rules were to get world records, have to go to the ends and then come back again.

I right. And this was the four longest biggest lakes in great Britain. Yeah. [00:15:00] Amazing. Cause yeah, Joshua, I think it was Joshua Pete Patterson. He did. Four four marathons in four countries around the United Kingdom in sort of 24 hours. And I was sort of thinking it was maybe on a sort of similar. What do you call it a similar sort of time with that, but no.

Oh, that’s amazing. I mean yeah, we’ve just done a trip and yeah. Covering those sort of distances certainly takes a bit out of you. Yeah, definitely. It’s like, you’re digging deep as well. You want to get you know, it’s quick as time as possible, really well, to what sort of times were you pushing with these.

So, I mean on the 40 kilometers a day, five hours, 24. And then on lake windmill, 18 kilometers, it’s two hours 10 look. Nah, I was five hours and 11, which is 38 kilometers. And then by like [00:16:00] one out of 20 in 11 K didn’t mind that. Yeah. And so if you’re down in Bournemouth now and what prepping prepping for the next.

Well, let’s see. Yeah. So back in the gym, sorts of the week off to relax back in the gym back training and yeah, getting ready. I’ve been, I’ve just started working with a company called Oscar potion who designing new blades paddle boards as well. So I’m trying to nose and I’m gonna try and try to out on a bit of terms as well.

See, see how it does going back. I mean, what was the sort of Going back. I mean, the sort of food that you were intaking because you’re sort of traveling from place to place. Was that sort of happening overnight, like the sort of three peaks where you climb up and down and then travel overnight, climb up, climb down, or was it, or was it very much like in the morning you would do it and then after noon you would [00:17:00] travel.

So, I mean, I went up so started in Scotland on the Monday. So I was in, I ended up in Scotland on the Sunday, cooked up, cooked dinner up there, made a big pasta dish to take with me onto the water. And once I finished up in Scotland, it’s done with the mess up my wind in there, on the farrier to Belfast.

And then did that one and then back, I mean, When I took the pastor out on the board with me, I found trying to eat that and paddle is impossible. So I just managed to get some protein balls to just eat those and let’s go in. So I made sure I had a big sort of hearty meal and evenings a bit healthy breakfast in the morning and just made sure I had fruit and the protein on the board.

Yeah. I just think what an amazing experience you’ve sort of had, because as you say, you’re going to some of the most beautiful parts of the United Kingdom. And say, I haven’t been up to some of the locks, but yeah, the lakes are just stunning to be [00:18:00] around. Oh, yeah, definitely. Definitely. And I I’ve been offered to go up to a lock next well to Ted Matt, like which is very tempting, but I mean, it’s a 10 hour drive from where I live, so it’s a long drive to go there, but I’m sure I reckon next next summer, I got to go up and do a lot at it.

Yeah, it’s a, do you, do you think you would have any luck doing, like all the locks, something like that. I mean, this I’m always sitting there and I’m always coming up with ideas. So I mean, ideally also has done great. But then, then try and do the longest lake every country in the world. We next summer we’re off to go and paddle the length of the scabs and coasts Namibia, which has never been done.

And we’re trying to become first team in someone else to do the Britain novel as well. In 2023. Well, I’m constantly looking, I’m looking at the globe group with all these different routes that can paddles. So just there’s so much out there, but you [00:19:00] know, it’d be great to do it all, but she’s trying to pick what to do and, you know, and process of getting them up, doing it.

Say what sort of drives you when times are getting sort of. Well, there’s sort of some terrible moments along the way, which you sort of had to dig deep. Did you find, or did you find with the paddle and it was very much a sort of routine thing. The the first one a lot or there was yeah, it was mostly at the end.

I mean, the women really picked up for me. It was kind of behind me, but I mean, I don’t think you’ve experienced it when you get on the board before. So in the world, the waves start rolling and the roll underneath your boards, the board back breaks on you. And it’s like those moments where you put all this effort in to paddle, then it’s all just taken out of your steam, just gone.

It’s like that. And it’s, if this is happening more and more, the wind was picking up, you know, the white waters, the white horses were breaking around me. I’m right at the end, like a seat [00:20:00] Kilkenny castle, which is the end point. And I didn’t take into consideration the river or as well, it comes in. So I had suddenly the current off that come in, these waves breaking on me, just so struggled in and distance, just in reach, but managed to get up, get around that.

And then the, when I was heading down to the lake district, we had issued rather. And went into limp mode. So it’s basically the same thing. It wasn’t going over 50 kilometers now. So after I finished that leave, I didn’t get to lake district till midnight. And about four hours sleep still don’t know the van would work.

The RAC came and rescued us. And then when I got to lake Windermere where I was so sleep deprived and lack of salts and all sorts, the cramps, I got all over my body. Ah, insane, really intense emotions. We’ll get through them getting that one. The toughest one was locked me. I mean, it was just such a big lake.

There’s one point right in the middle of it. When I was in the hearts of the law, [00:21:00] that I would look around me. I literally could not see any land. I was waiting for the farrier Liverpool the day before. And this sweet old lady was telling me all the horror stories, a lot about loss fishermen, the weather system, above that about these kayakers run.

And these waves started breaking about nine from there, you know, had to get rescued. So I was fine before I went on, then I went and read all these sort of these stories. And then she put the fear in me, go on the law, go out there, out in the middle of this lot. No one around me. I don’t like to see as he stopped clouds, forming the waves are getting bigger around me.

I was like, this is a lake. How is this happening? I shot these, these images in my head, but luckily, you know, I kept going unprepared. Worst case scenario I get rescued. It was all right. That’s exactly what you want to hear. Isn’t it just before the horror stories,

I suppose, when preparing for the, I mean, doing your research and everything [00:22:00] was it sort of months, years in the making or was this a, quite a sort of basic expedition to get off the ground? Yeah. I mean, it’s been for ages, I’ve been sort of planning there and it’s just trying to work out. I mean, working out, along these points, the lake straight away was, you know, a bit difficult and some of them, but I mean, it was really relatively straightforward being it’s in the UK.

And it’s just trying to work out logistically which way to go and try and work out where to sleep and all that. I think the hardest part. Yeah, exercise. I trained, you know, I was physically fit. I was physically well for it, but it was the traveling in between any 200 miles between each one. It’s not, we wouldn’t be doing it after you’ve just paddled.

I mean, I didn’t drive. It’s still sit in a van tired. It’s not, it’s not pleasant. Yeah, I know. I sort of agree. Well, I mean, it’s absolutely incredible that you’ve done it and I’m sure there are many more to come in the coming months and years. Definitely. Definitely. This is just the beginning. I’ve [00:23:00] got a real taste for it now.

So just, yeah. Watch the space. There’s more to come. Yeah. I think that’s the sort of issue is say it’s so addictive. Yeah. It’s a mixed thing. That’s why I think more people need to get out of there. Don’t make my . But not everybody has to go and, you know, have around the UK or puddle the four longest legs or, you know, run them out.

Every country eventually could be anything, but it’s just sort of take a little step out of your comfort zone. I think that’s what you need to do and truly learn more about yourself when you do that. And that’s what I’m doing at the time. Well, that probably leads quite nicely to a five questions. Which is these are the same five questions that we ask each guest each week.

And why the first one being from your trips and expeditions, what’s the one gadget that you always take with you? We won’t catch it. So I mean, everything I’ve always had my phone, but it’s the [00:24:00] app on there. I always use that. Absolutely love that. What about your favorite adventure or. I mean, I think we’re all frustrated.

Like that was worse. And I would say every, every every bookies I think walk the Nile was definitely my number one at his house. The first one I read after watching the documentary on telephone. Oh, that probably gave you a bit of inspo for your revenue. Nile expedition. I only had an opportunity to meet him not so long ago, but never came to cause of COVID discussed it.

Why are adventures important to you? For me it’s I use it as a journey of self discovery with my past and everything I’ve been on. It gives me this opportunity to learn more about myself, what I’m fully capable of. And that’s what I actually love. And that’s why I want to keep pushing myself to keep learning more about myself through grow and change in positive way as an individual.

Nice. And what about your favorite quote, [00:25:00] favorite quotes? The purpose of life after all is to live in it. Taste experience to the utmost to reach out easily and without fear for a newer richer experience, beautifully read Eleanor Roosevelt. Very good. Yeah. He has quite a few good ones. Him and him and mark Twain certainly came out with a few classics over the years.

So there’s loads up. I’ll also so rent I’ll find as well. There’s no such thing as bad weather is bad preparation, and that’s a good one as well. Listening are always keen to travel and go on these sort of grand adventures for themselves. What’s the one thing you would recommend for people who want to get started?

Just, just got to go do it. I think there’s no point everybody owns and ours don’t know. Should I do like, don’t listen to sort of the naysayers around you that might try and put down your head. It’s just, you just got to go and do it, you know, [00:26:00] just take that step into the unknown, which is adventure. Be brave, go out there for adventure.

What tips would you have for people who want to get into paddle? Just I mean, there’s so many great brands brands out there to do it, and it’s, it’s such a great all round of sports. I mean, I’d start off. We’ve just started out, start with a rigid board or not registered inflatable board get used to that.

And then if you feel more confident you want to go out and then start spending some more money on some better equipment. But always be safe and always, you know, prepare for when you get out of the water. But I’d say just go ahead. Even if you just go and hire a board for a weekend, there’s plenty of places to go into.

Very nice. Well, there you go. Everyone. You go paddleboarding. And finally, what are you doing now? And how can people follow your adventures in the. Yeah. So at the moment, just continuing of work training and preparing for the next sort of up and coming things [00:27:00] they can go to my website, no Manny cuddler.co.uk, or they can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at nomadic paddler as well.

No worries. Well, it’s been an absolute pleasure chatting about all your trips and very exciting for your upcoming trips as well. Thank you for having me. It’s been great talking. Great talking to you too. Well, thank you so much. Well, that is it for today. Thank you so much for watching and I hope you got something out of it.

If you did hit that like button and subscribe, if you haven’t already, and I will see you in the next week.

Vedangi Kulkarni

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Vedangi Kulkarni (Endurance athlete)

On Today’s Podcast, we are talking with Vedangi Kulkarni and Endurance Cyclist and Adventurer.
In 2018, she rode 29,000km around the world in 159/160 days becoming the youngest woman to have cycled around the world. Today on the podcast we speak about her childhood in India and moving to the UK. What inspired her and of course the highs and lows of her incredible round the world trip.

Vedangi’s Website

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Transcript of our Conversation

Vedangi Kulkarni

[00:00:00] Vedangi Kulkarni: Hello, and welcome to the modern adventurer podcast coming up. And a couple of guys in a motorcycle. They pushed me off my bike and one of them was taking stuff from my bags and stuff. And the other one like held me and there was a knife like right here. And when you can see the knife and the edge of it shining, suddenly your life flashes in front of you.

And you do realize what you actually want out of what you’re experiencing. Well, what I wanted was to be alive, basically.

if you’ve enjoyed the podcast so far, please feel free to subscribe because we have some incredible guests coming up week after week. Today we have [00:01:00] an amazing guest. She has done some incredible stuff. She became the youngest female to cycle around the world. She has some crazy stories to tell, and I am delighted to introduce to the podcast.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me absolute pleasure. Well, great to have you on. And you’ve got quite the story to tell. I mean, you you’ve cycled around the world. You were the youngest female to ever cycle around the world. And I mean, I kind of wait to hear it, but let’s, let’s start at the beginning and about you and how you sort of got into this adventurous.

Cool. Ah, it’s, it’s quite well, thank you for the kind words to start with. And as far as my adventurous life is concerned, it wasn’t always like that. But what I can definitely say is that I, my parents have always been [00:02:00] incredibly supportive with my strange life decisions. And they’ve always kind of, we, I grew up traveling a lot, so every time, so in, in my culture, there’s quite a few there’s quite a few kind of festivals and stuff.

So, you know, things that call for a holiday, a school holiday or whatever. So me and my parents used to go for I dunno, we used to drive across the country and stuff just to see places and experience the journey and, you know, just have a good time. And they were never really, my parents were never really strict about the grades and stuff.

They were more cared about the fact that, you know, was I growing up to be a good person, you know, that sort of thing. And I think that was really cool about them. And that meant that they were more [00:03:00] open to new opportunities and they’re yeah, just really open-minded in general. And yeah, I distinctly remember that one of the, my first kind of memory of traveling with my parents was when we were all on the moped actually, and I used to live in like a mountainous kind of region and I was standing.

So I was like tiny and the three, four, whenever your first memories are from, and I was standing in front, you know, where you’re meant to keep it, like your bags and stuff. I was standing there. My, my mom was riding that mood kid and my dad was sitting behind and yeah, like we are traveled for like hundreds of miles like that.

And then eventually my parents made like a little seat in front there for me and yeah. Then my mom eventually bought a motorbike [00:04:00] and she used to take me to some incredible places on a motorbike and bear in mind for a woman riding a motorbike. It was kind of like a taboo. So. Kind of not just riding a motorbike bar, you know, taking me, her child with her and, you know, it was deemed risky.

And my mom was more than happy with taking that risk because she was like, this is fun. And I want my daughter to grow up, to know that, you know, women can do cool things. And that was incredible. This was in the, this was in the mountainous region of India. Yes, basically when I say mountainous, we lived on a platoon close to us.

They were like really high mountains. So the region that I lived in. It was basically back in the day, there were many forts and on the top of big mountains around there, and yeah, so my dad used to work abroad and every time he came [00:05:00] back so one month on one month off. So he used to work in the middle of oceans and stuff.

So that one month of that, he used to be with us. We would make the most out of it and go places. And just, I don’t know, we would go for hikes. We would just, you know, have different sorts of experiences. So one of the wildest things, I remember which now when I think about the only like wild, it was just like something that meant a lot to my family was more, more like me and my parents used to love watching this.

Bollywood film. And I, I think it was the film was released when I was like two or three years old. But when I was like growing up, we used to watch that a lot. And then when I was like 13 or 14, I said to my parents that I want to go to go and see where the film was filmed, you know, and was like, I want to see the set and everything.

And it turned out the set was in the middle of nowhere in one end of good [00:06:00] giraffe and like run off Kutch. And it’s like salt Plains kind of thing. And you’d drive in the middle to that. And it’s beautiful. And, and to get to that place was a nightmare. All car was not equipped for that amount of off-road driving.

My mom pulled it through, you know, she took us there and I remember. Me. And my dad was so like, oh my God, that’s where that happened. And that’s what that scene was filmed. And, you know, it was beautiful and it was really cool. Yeah, no, and I think buckets, I think I bought brought all of the stuff that I learned from that experience and those experiences into the UK when I came here.

But before we get to that phase, one last thing would be that the defining moments that kind of, I don’t know, played a part in getting me where I am [00:07:00] is actually I went for this short trip in the Himalayas with my ex-boyfriend and I met some really incredible people there who have done like race across America and stuff like that.

But this guy, he is now like a really kind of someone I look up to is my mentor. And he was like, Hey, you’re really good at the cycling thing. Have you considered doing that? The full rate, the full rate goes from monopoly across these, you know, four or five mountain passes to lay, which is like the capital of the dark retrain and then, or the biggest city in Ladakh region anyway.

And then you can go to Srinagar and it’s like a really long road and you know, you could do it. And then he was part of still association of India, but I was allowed to join the group expedition because I was [00:08:00] 17. You need to be at least 18 to do that. So as it turned out, I just joined it by myself.

So I didn’t, I didn’t go with the group instead. I went by myself and my parents were like in the car, they were like, you know, 10 miles somewhere around doing that thing. And I told them that the only time I want to really see you is when I set my camp up and otherwise I’m going to be by myself. And I think that experience of being in the Himalayas and knowing, trying to understand my place in the world and, you know, just kind of being alone in the mountains at very high altitudes and understanding what’s around me, that was an interesting experience, which really kind of, yeah.

Which is where it all started really well. It’s amazing. It’s amazing. You had such, as I say, supportive parents growing up. Because as [00:09:00] we were speaking on the podcast before, very rarely, especially at such a young age I would have thought parents might have been persuading that kids to sort of move in another direction.

And so having such supportive parents at such a young age probably gave you that platform to really express yourself and to pursue these adventures, which, you know, other people might sort of be slightly afraid of. Would you say? Yeah, I think that’s definitely true. And the interesting part is that my parents, weren’t just kind of supportive in a way that right.

If you’re doing this way, so go do what you like. They actually kind of encouraged that in a way. So like, they, they were proud of me for doing something different. And even [00:10:00] now, when I find myself in, in some really odd places in my mind where I’m like, I just called my dad and I’m like, this was a mistake.

This is not happening. I’m not earning enough money. I’m not getting enough support. I’m like, I’m just, I’m just in this what in this country by myself and not getting it. And my dad’s like, I’m proud of you for having those experiences and for where you are. And I’m proud of you for going beyond your comfort zone and no, like restarting your whole life in a new country and doing what you do.

And he, he hasn’t just been the person who’s like, oh no, we’ll be fine. He actually makes me understand that. Where I am, I should, I’m extremely privileged to be in that position. So, you know, make the most out of it rather than, rather than playing yourself down all the time and just kind of, you know, being too hard on yourself, I suppose.

Yeah. [00:11:00] I was actually just thinking about one of my trips and when, when I was down, I had like horrific injuries, food poisoning, everything, and like absolutely shocking. I remember calling my father and he just said, well, you better carry on

which at the time was not probably what I wanted to hear, but it was probably, it was almost certainly the right thing. But now as you say, just having that sort of support system with it I imagine was a massive help. And so you moved to the UK. What, how old were you when you moved to the UK? I, I had just turned 18 and when I say just turned 18, it was within a week of my birthday.

So on 12th of September, I turned 18 on 17th of September, I took my flight and yeah, the first thing I did when I arrived was to put my bike together [00:12:00] because priorities put my bike together and I was like, so what’s this bone with the university thing. So what’s the deal with having different campuses?

How does this work? And I think I had imagined something really different. So when I taught about different campuses, I thought it’s just two buildings next to each other. And I’m going to the building of the lift instead of the building on the road. That was how I envisioned instead it turned out it’s like on the other end of the town, almost that sort of thing.

And I was like, that’s insane. Like. Beyond what I had imagined of like a university being like, and then it was such a culture shock, everything. Everything was like, because bear in mind. I, I landed, I had this bike bag, buy books with me. I had suitcase and a big, like massive rock [00:13:00] sack with me. Like the mountaineering one.

And I got there and I was like, so what was born then? How do I get there? And I got to bond with station and I was like, so what’s Bosco. Like how, how do I get to that place? And this is a big place and everything looks so different. Like the roads are different. You have to press this button to cross the road.

Like, what’s the deal with that? And it was kind of like that. And Then even like taking a taxi and you know, how British people kind of have that banter in like, you know, every, every now and again. I just didn’t understand the, I remember, I remember the taxi guy said something like, oh, big books. I must be a hook.

There isn’t a body in it. I got so scared. I got so scared. I thought he was accusing me of something and all God. Oh, [00:14:00] I remember that. And I’m so embarrassed because I was so scared long. Anyway, yeah. First thing I did was put my bike together and go to find wherever my university was and get incredibly shocked that there was more than one building at one campus.

And there were like multiple buildings, which were called different things and different buildings, all for different things. And that isn’t just like one massive building and then sections of it, it was just, yeah, just difference. It was like massive the, the, the campus and I just couldn’t fathom it. And then that’s like, okay, so what’s this lectural thing.

And just going in there and realizing that it’s like a movie theater, I’m like, yeah, I’ve only been to like three movies, like in a cinema kind of thing. But that’s how I felt because I’ve never known anything, but her, so it was really strange. Yeah. [00:15:00] Knowing that the university doesn’t run from like, you know, I don’t know, seven in the morning to 12 in the afternoon, or like nine in the afternoon to four in the evening, I was shocked that you actually have like a series of lectures.

At different times of the days and you just attend them and find a place to hang around. And it was really strange, just kind of being a foreigner in this country and say guys, so you sort of had a massive you know, wake up culture shock to the UK. I was at the idea behind sort of cycling around the UK.

So no, no, absolutely not. So, okay. Basically I was really struggling to make friends and genuinely struggling. And I, as someone from a very different culture, I didn’t know where the boundary was. You know, [00:16:00] between people being nice to you and people actually meaning what they’re saying and you know, being friends.

So if someone said we should totally catch up and have a cup of tea, you should come over. At some point I would actually go over and there were only trying to be, you know, polite. They didn’t actually mean it. So I was struggling with all of those things and really struggling to actually like, you know, make good friends, which I understand now that it takes time.

But at the time as someone I felt incredibly lonely. So I took up cycling for long distances and I didn’t take it up. I used to ride from Bournemouth to Exeter, stay somewhere under a bus shelter or something strange like that, and then ride back the next day. Or like, I would just write to some odd places that I would see in the map and be like, oh, I wonder what this place is like, or that place is like, and I would just ride there.

I would stay somewhere, come back and be like, and just like kind of slip it into [00:17:00] conversations with people, you know, kind of be like, oh yeah, I went to exit. I wrote to Exeter and back the other weekend and it would be like you did what? And even I didn’t realize that I exited was actually quite far and it’s quite hilly along the way.

All I knew I had a, my bike, I think it’s like a hundred quid. Like I got it from India and that’s like a hundred quid bike. And for me it was the best bike ever because it had taken me across Himalayas and, you know, I was like stoked about it. And then my mentor from India, he suggested, suggesting was like, have you heard of London in London?

It’s an Audax event. It’s 1400 kilometers. You’ve got five days to do it. And I was like, I’m signing up. I’m signed up for it and realize that I actually need to train for it because it’s a long distance. So. Oh, part of my training was this 400 kilometer ride. So I was going to [00:18:00] go from Bournemouth to London and back instead when I started off with that ride and there are nine, I had a saddle pack, the upper dura, 17 liter one, and a backpack with me.

And there wasn’t much like there was no sleeping gear. There was this clothes and water and shit, tons of food that I probably didn’t even need. And I didn’t, I don’t even have a proper puncture, a packet. That’s what we talking was unprepared left and right. As, as things go, my bike had something wrong with it.

So in this small village called Bentley and Hampshire was fixing my bike, got into a conversation with a really kind of really like mazing lady and got invited to, you know, sleep over at hers and was telling stories to her daughter and her family. And it was, it was really cool. And then I [00:19:00] asked where I’m going and I was like, right.

Aren’t concert. I’m only going back to bone meds now. I’m can I, so I just pointed to two undergrads on the map and that was that I didn’t learn the route. I didn’t know how to get to John O’Groats. I taught reading was pronounced as reading and I just thought it would be a good idea. So. That’s how the whole kind of writing across from Bournemouth to journal groves happened.

And even like the word journal Rhodes, it was something, I, it didn’t make sense to me, you know, it was that like, I was like, oh, wow, that’s a strange word. It would be fun to say it out loud. That’s how, like, you know, it’s I know it sounds like really bizarre, but that’s actually how it was. That’s how stupid I was to just be like, oh, that looks funny.

That also looks like [00:20:00] end of the country. Or I wonder if I can ride there. Cool. I’m going to ride there and just pointed out at all of the major cities along the way. And yeah, got there in the end. Through some incredibly strange experiences, like sleeping in the bus shelters, knocking on random people’s doors, hoping someone would yeah.

Put me up for the night. Didn’t know that’s not how you do within this country, but you know people are kind, what can I say? Like, and again, like at the time I really was that dumb foreigner who doesn’t understand anything or who can’t even speak English. I had a very strong accent. Like I didn’t speak properly.

So, you know, I couldn’t even speak in proper kind of, I don’t know. I didn’t have any consistency in the way I spoke English, [00:21:00] if that makes sense. And I couldn’t understand other people either. So that kind of added to the whole experience. So yeah, I happened to meet someone who had auditioned for the same Blvd film that I had auditioned for.

She got, she, she had played this I don’t even remember she had played a wrestler and I had auditioned for a part playing opposite her. But yeah, I hadn’t got it by the way. Well, I think it’s that I think to do this, you need a sort of slight sense of naivety because otherwise, if you think otherwise you, if you go knowing everything, I don’t think, I think, and you go with a sense of all the sort of horror stories that you usually get told about you wouldn’t get started and to have that and to have that [00:22:00] sort of sense, naivety, I think really helps because I think people work off that and that is why in a sense sometimes why people are so kind, maybe they saw pithy on me when I did it, but But I, I think it also helps slightly having that.

And so how long, what was the, you sort of slept in bus shelters while camped, I mean, kind of, what are some of the stories, any sleeping kit? No, it was now when I think about it now, my job is planning, expeditions and adventures, or, you know, managing other people’s expeditions, assessing risks and marketing and stuff.

And now when I think about it, I’m like everything I did then was against everything I would suggest to the people to do now. But having that wild edge is [00:23:00] something that we all need in spite of all the planning. But yeah, it’s interesting that but that was also the beginning of my. Bigger dream of getting around the world in hundred days which also by the way, the a hundred days, but then it happens, but we’ll get there.

When I was writing to John or growths, obviously I didn’t have anyone other than my parents and a few Facebook friends to report back to about how my days are going. So I just felt incredibly lonely. So reading a book called this road, I ride by Juliana Buring. And that was where I found out about this recorded about, you know, getting around the world, circumnavigating the world on bicycle, like, wow, that’s also a thing.

[00:24:00] Is it something that I want to do? Is that something that I can do and would this whole kind of. Questioning if that was something I wanted to do. And if I could do, I would like just read more and more of a book along the way. And as I got to journal Brits, I had finished the book. I was just sitting there and thinking to myself how, none of what I’ve done had been planned, how none of what I had done had been trained for, and still we made it across the fucking country.

So what are we waiting for? We can probably do more than this. So the next kind of progression to that for me, was riding my bike around the world. And that’s where the dream came from. And yeah, that was where it all started. How much planning did it sort of take to get that [00:25:00] expedition off the ground?

Well, a lot, a lot, a lot more than I was prepared for. And a lot more than almost prepared for, with a lot less patients than I think I have now let’s put it that way many, many months. And I didn’t know many people in the industry. Oh, many people. I didn’t know any people in the industry. Sorry. I just knew that I, I had a big dream and I was very tiny and I needed to train for it.

So my university took PTO on me, probably like probably I did that bit out. My, my university was incredibly helpful in, in setting up the training resources for me. So was a personal trainer and all that, but being strong enough to do something, doesn’t ensure that you do it. [00:26:00] You need to have money for it.

You need to know how to put yourself out there. And my way of doing that was DM-ing thousands of people who I taught with no more than I do. And just asking them questions and learning from them. So mark Magowan, for example, I met him, I, I wrote to Kendall mountain festival from Boone mid I, well, I wrote to Kendall to meet him and talk to him about this.

And he was incredibly helpful with helping me understand what I need to have in place to pull something like this off. And that was so helpful. And I remember it was quite surreal. It was. Him, Sean Conway and myself like brewery art center. And I didn’t even like beer, but I had quite a few of those.

And I was just like, I can’t believe this is happening because if I’m talking to this about [00:27:00] these if I’m talking about this to these legends, I actually have to do it. And then yeah, eventually I, I, it was hardware getting their funds together because I at sense, 512 or something like that, emails and only 12 of them got back with a positive response probably in total.

Not more than 30 people got back full stop. So it did take that much effort, but that was because I knew nothing about which brands to approach, what research to do. And, and, and what questions to ask how to present myself to certain brands and how am I unique in what I’m doing and how can actually make a point of that?

I knew none of that, all I knew is that, oh, I have a dream which is still, you know, riding a bike around the world. I don’t have a track record. I’ve [00:28:00] only like ridden my bike kind of across the Himalayas and across the UK. But again, like that’s not a big deal and I just played everything down. I didn’t, I didn’t understand even a little bit how to make it sound like something at all, or, you know, so it was, it was very hard to be prepared for this and.

At some point I ran out of money and my dad was, my dad had to help me, which was incredibly embarrassing, but at the same time very generous of him. So, yeah. And so you took off what from the UK to cycle around the world? No. So one of my incredibly steep I’m I love to say that one of my knots or good decisions was to start and finish in Australia.

I don’t know why I called that. It was just really random. I was like, I want to go to Australia [00:29:00] and I’m going to have to go there anyway. So why don’t I just start and finish that? When else am I going to get to enjoy the country? I’ll tell you later why it was not a great idea to finish there. Anyway, it started from PERT across Australia Perth to Brisbane fleet, to Wellington, Wellington, to Auckland across Northern Ireland of New Zealand, flee to Vancouver and took an incredibly exact route across Canada into Halifax.

And yeah, I realized I wasn’t going to get a us visa. So I had to like cover more distance than I should have in, in, in, in Canada anyway to Halifax and then Iceland. But then I couldn’t go all the way across Iceland because of an accident. So. Portugal to Portugal, Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, [00:30:00] Russia.

Russia was only from the finished border to UFA. And then from there I flew to India and did this weird route across India. And then from there there, I had finished 29,000 kilometers 18,000 miles. So from there I flew back to Australia. So that was the route. Wow. And I mean, God, it’s amazing. Cause we had mark Beaumont on the podcast and he was talking about sort of logistics of around the world cycle and sort of getting it sort of officiated by the Guinness book book of records.

And just sort of, as you say, the sort of logistics behind it, was it, was it more of a, an experience or was the record important to you? At the time, it was very important, but when I had already started, I did some stuff that so like, you know, stuff, like [00:31:00] at some point I just stopped caring about my log book.

I still had it. And I still took the signatures when I was just like very kind of reluctant to if that makes sense or even stuff like like not kind of bothering to backup my data and stuff like that. That meant that like yeah, I don’t know. So it meant a lot to me the actual record bit, but some stuff happened to me on the way, which made it obvious that I wasn’t going to get it.

So halfway I was in 55 days and 9,020 miles I had done in 55 days. And I only realized when I was asked about it, that I actually don’t have. Consistent evidence that, so one thing that really bothered me was the spot tracker. It just made me incredibly aware and incredibly less adventurous. Like it just [00:32:00] reduced the whole fun factor for me.

So I just turned it off. I was like, I was just like, fuck it. And obviously that’s not the way to go, but go and tell that to the 19 year old me, like, you know, she took some weird decisions and yeah, whatever. So I, at the time, even if the record meant so much for me, I almost expected to get the, get, get it without actually Bearing to the consequences of it, like actually having that pressure of the spot tracker actually having the kind of pressure of oh shit, I need to bucket this up or, oh shit, I need to take the signature.

And then again, next time, like when I stopped somewhere, I’ll have to get it there. And then again, and you know, all of that was just like overwhelming because also another thing to remember was that in some parts of the world [00:33:00] until films huh, offered to like support with some filming. But again, my attempt was unsupported.

So what ended up happening was that I selected a couple of people. One of them was like a friend of mine to join the film career and kind of, you know, film some bits of this ride. And what actually ended up happening was that they joined, but I was doing the logistics for most of it. So that meant that it was just.

Overwhelming to say the least. And and one thing I had learned was that I can either have fun and strictly have fun, or I can, I can actually like also remember the other stuff and actually like, take that pressure. So until the halfway point I was doing both very well. And then [00:34:00] Spain happened in Spain.

I’m not sure if I’ve told, like, if you’ve heard about the story before, but I got mugged at knife point. So I w I was, I was riding late in the evening and a couple of guys in a motorcycle. They pushed me off my bike and one of them was taking stuff from my bags and stuff. And the other one like held me and, and there was a knife, like right here.

When you can see the knife and the edge of it shining, suddenly your life flashes in front of you, and you do realize what you actually want out of what you’re experiencing. Well, what I wanted was to be alive basically. But anyway eventually we found that well, we, I, it was just me, there wasn’t a soul crew at that point, but at that point I was like, this is really fucked.

I was looking at the license plate of the motorbike [00:35:00] and I was memorizing the numbers, but what ended up happening was they took what they had to pushed me along the edge of this road. I fell off headfirst. And then I heard a tug, which I later found out was my bike falling on me. And I think I was unconscious for, I don’t know how long, but I got up and.

Whenever I got up, I kind of, I was like, shit, that’s my bike. And then I was like, it’s my frame back still there. And it was, I kind of pulled my head tote out of there because when you’re essentially living on your bike, you know, where everything is, isn’t there. So I pulled my head torch off on out and found my way back to the road.

Walked to this gas station. Must’ve been like five or so kilometers. And so a good kind of hour, if not more. And [00:36:00] this guy must’ve felt incredibly bad for me because he literally just shut everything there. And he was like, right. We need to like help you that sort of thing. So he took me for a coffee to this place like behind, it was like a motel kind of place.

So my, my lips were bleeding. My nose was bleeding and there were like, I was basically like a big breeze. I was not looking. You know and I didn’t remember much at all. I just remembered this number that I was memorizing to keep fear away as much as I could. So I was never, I had to remember this number.

We started with B six and I kept repeating it to this guy and he didn’t understand that thing, but this family was like, oh, that’s a number of a motorcycle. Like, you know, the structure of the numbers is like of a motorcycle. Anyway, they were [00:37:00] like, they, they encouraged me to report it, which I did. I was taken to a hospital where he found out that I had concussion.

I couldn’t keep much food down. I couldn’t kind of drink properly. My head hurt quite a bit. I couldn’t balance much on my bike. I was just like really in a bad place. And yeah, at that point I just decided that I wasn’t going for the, I wasn’t going for the fastest record anymore. And also like I got back on the road within the next 48 hours.

Well, within the next 40 hours wasn’t going for the record anymore. It was taking, I was going incredibly slow, staking me so long to get anywhere. And I, I just felt really rough for housings of my health after that really, because bear in [00:38:00] mind I was doing it took me. I remember the first time I did a hundred kilometers after the concussion incident was within a week of that.

Yeah. That took me eight hours because I could climb, could do the climbs, but I couldn’t do the downhills. I just couldn’t balance. Like if someone home took me, I would get out of the road and I would cry. I cried so much. Like I now get bruises under an, over my eyes if I cry a lot because I don’t know.

Like, I think it’s from that because I’d broken my news or something. It’s, it’s insane how much I had cried in those, in those few days or once after that. Yeah, after that I decided to continue. And then, then I took another fun decision to, to instead of resting for eight days until my Russian [00:39:00] visa was there in Finland.

I was like, no, I don’t want to rest rest. So I went to the Arctic circle. I took a plane to Volo took a bus to Inari and then like went for a hike in the forest there with my friends kind of backpack and left my bike at my friend’s mom’s house. And just, yeah, I was just like, yeah, I’m just going to learn how to deal with the snow and how to survive in this note from the people that I meet over there which I did, and yeah.

Then came back, got my Russian visa cycled in through Russia and winter, which was a real interesting experience. And yeah, definitely something I won’t forget in a hurry. Yeah. We had Julie Stewart on who cycle through Siberia and he said, you know, the temperatures drops so low in [00:40:00] that area and. It’s really in hospitable.

And for, from there, I mean, you were what you got through Russia and then flew to India. Is that right? Yeah. So I went from the Finnish and Russian border road all the way to UFA from there. And then, yeah, one of the interesting experiences actually, before I get to the India bed, was that a five star hotel offered to host me for free just because I called them up from outside Moscow.

And I told them what I was doing. And I told them that I need a place to stay. And I just lived that you a hotel in Somara and I’m like, you know, can I get a booking and something like that? I don’t remember what I said, but I knew they spoke English. And at that point I could only speak people. [00:41:00] It, I could only expect people in cities to speak English at that point, because I learned that soon enough that in the rural areas, people wouldn’t quite know English.

And I got to Somara and there were these very well-dressed people applauding as I walked up my bike up this kind of stairway, and as it turned out, and then the minute I stopped, they stopped and they took stuff off my bike and I was like, oh wait, they were clapping for me. Oh, thank you. I was literally like that.

Initially I had thought there was like a Russian celebrity or something behind, but apparently not. And they baked me this beautiful cake and, and the, it had written, we believe you can do it. And that was so nice, like really [00:42:00] nice. And they, they offered me, they also need hot tub and stuff. And like, you know, they offered me their best room, gave me a lot of food, which I needed at that point, like, you know and they were incredibly kind to me and yeah, I’ll never forget that experience.

So that was really cool. And then I obviously continued my ride to UFA and from UFA flee to flew to India. And then yeah, there was a road I don’t even remember. Was it five times? I’m a sixth year. Somewhere in between kilometers in India. And that was interesting because I had been by myself for so long.

Like when you have written 24, 20 5,000 kilometers by yourself, and you’ve been in your own head for so long and suddenly you’re in a country that you recognize [00:43:00] places, recognize language and recognize people in. And I can’t even describe how it felt. My parents said they would again, drive in like 5,200 kilometer radius.

And they were like, you can decide where you want to stay and you know, you can do your own payments and do that. We weren’t like support, support you, but we, we need to know that you’re okay because you have almost died thrice in the life. Three months. So I thought that was fair because once I got changed by a bear second time to hold thingy, you know, with with the with the horrible people in Spain, her, well, when would the people imaged me that?

And and at the finished Russian border, I had like I, I kind of pulled something that didn’t quite work. I [00:44:00] told them that I gave them a passport and a visa and they asking for money and I said, I’m not going to give them any money. And they were like, insisting that they wouldn’t let me until without money without like giving them some money.

And I was like, I’m going to call my lawyer. And I didn’t even have any signal or a SIM card for that matter. And I just pretended to call someone and I was speaking to them. Very loudly kind of trying to make a statement that, you know, fuck you, let me in kind of thing. And then yeah, they had to let me in because they thought I was going to see them or something and yeah, but because of kind of a few of those experiences and also the fact that I had lung infection back in back in Canada.

So that didn’t help either. So like, because my parents knew all those things now they were like, gosh, like, oh, we just want to make sure she pulls it through like, you know, India so that she has actually done what she wants to. So they were like, you know, they were [00:45:00] supportive, but not increasingly like, you know, they weren’t allowed to be, oh, I was just like, stay away from me, but it’s good that you’re there.

But then there was also really strange mentally because of the familiarity and. Just knowing that, that I wasn’t all by myself, that was really strange. But yeah, then I finished on Christmas Eve in Australia. And that was bizarre. So I had run out of my Australian visa within the last week of my ride through India.

And then I had to apply for like an emergency visa, which arrived. I got my visa on my way to the airport. So I had booked my flight without having a visa in place, living life on the edge. What can I say? And yeah, then I got my visa reached Australia on Christmas Eve. And it was [00:46:00] literally just my parents and me and the like Marathi community kind of center there.

And like, no kind of. Friends or like that sort of thing, which I would have loved to have at the finish line, because I was looking forward to that part so much. And for so long on Christmas day, everything was closed, everything was closed. So instead I just sat with my dad in that hotel. And the hotels power actually, and just, we told the hotel what, like I had just come back from.

So we had an open tab for like cocktails. So I had quite a few of those that was literally my that was Christmas day, 2018. Now your trips, I mean, it’s just a absolutely incredible [00:47:00] story. And you need that sort of time in the Russian hotel with them sort of putting you up and putting on a show.

Well, what, what were the sort of other moments that really stuck out to you from that trip? Oh, okay. Day two. Oh Friday and I I’m already writing through some terrain that feels like I’m in the middle of nowhere in Australia seeing approaching Nullarbor, we’re quickly approaching the liberal. And there’s a guy who had like silhouette teeth and, and very gangster.

Relook is driving in this truck with his mate. I want to say anyway, I’m writing and he’s throwing cans of coconut. Like, you know, offering me that as a search, like whilst we were both kind of, I was riding and he was driving, I caught it, [00:48:00] but it’s in my pocket, kept riding and then he throws another can of Coke at me.

And I’m like, cool. Okay, this guy’s nice. I get it put in my pocket, keep going. And after four cans of Coke, he signals me to stop. So I’m like, fuck. Now I have to stop. We don’t like, you know, sometimes you’re looking at people and when you’re by yourself and when you’re in the middle of nowhere, mostly bad things run through your mind.

At least they did at that point because probably I had to be a little judgmental to protect myself at that point. So stopped. And the guy tells me that he has been in prison before, and he tells me that he’s got like guns and stuff with. Then he proceeds to give me a lot of hugs and a lot of high-fives every other sentence.

And yeah, he just [00:49:00] looks and sounds very like gangstery. And then when I’m sneaking, I taken my phone out of the pocket. He takes my phone from me, dialed his number and calls on his own phone and then gives me a phone back and say, now you have my number. If any motherfucker troubles you on the one you call then he called us family.

And and then he had me talk to them and introduced me to his daughters and his wife, and took photos with me. And it was incredibly kind. And he kept checking in on me, like over the next few days. And yeah, interesting man, but never judge a book by its cover, as they say. And he was only looking out for me as it turned out and, you know, just being incredibly nice.

Wow. It is amazing. Those sort of [00:50:00] stories. And as you say, some of the people along the way on these trips, that one does is incredible. Do you what was the sort of motivation because you went through quite a few hardships, what was the sort of motivation and the back of your head that sort of kept you going.

You know, after you’d been mugged and be beaten in Spain, a lot of people might’ve thought of quitting. What was in the back of your mind that kept you going? Was it the mates vacation to break the record or to complete the circuit of around the world? It wasn’t, it definitely wasn’t to break a record anymore.

I’ll tell you that right now. What it was at that point was that I had nowhere else to go. My UK visa had expired. My parents lived in Oman. I didn’t want to go to [00:51:00] India or, well, there was no specific that I could go to India. And I, I don’t when I told her of home, I thought of my, like of the student’s house in the UK, where all my friends were.

So the home for me in that moment, Was where I was and what I was doing. So I had to get back into that to feel comfortable again and believe me when you’re concussed. And when you decide to keep writing, you need to find something comfortable, something, anything. So for me, it was just talking to my friends for hours and hours on end on phone, whilst writing, counting frogs on the road, dead frogs on the road, or like, you know, like some really strange things, just, you know, some, and again, like I’m wanted to continue because I need that.

If [00:52:00] I did know I was going to get to a place which was darker inside of my own head and I had no idea how long it would take for me to get out of there if I didn’t continue. And I know like right now, so. How many years has it been? Two and a half years after finish. The only thing I regret is not having enough collective evidence of my ride.

If I hadn’t done, if I hadn’t finished it, I would have had bigger regrets. I would have regretted not having completed it. I would have re I would have hated myself for it. And that’s just how much I knew myself, which pushed me to keep going. And because I knew that when I’ll be back, it will be a story to tell.

And I knew that it wasn’t going to be all bad. So I know cycling in winter sounds awful in Russia, but [00:53:00] when I got there, yes, it was cold and miserable for a lot of fit. But when it wasn’t riding in the night, it was just incredible, shiny snail while around. With only like the black light to focus on and sort of black light, white light to focus on in the dark.

And it just kind of, every time I like think about it, I see exactly what I was seeing then. And it, I don’t regret that at all. I would have felt really bad if I hadn’t done it, you know, or even the Arctic experiences that I had in the middle of my when, when my Russian visa was being processed, like it would have been horrible if I hadn’t done that.

Like I would’ve, I would have not felt good about myself now. And earlier when we were talking about the incomplete feeling in yourself [00:54:00] By not doing certain things or by not having done certain things and then pushing yourself and doing those things and finding out who you actually feel about it.

Like, I think that’s what kind of motivated me because until I was done with it, something always felt incomplete. And then when I was done only the evidence got, if it felt incomplete, which I was fine with hours and fine with it for a long time, I was like, no, I want recognition. I want, I want to be accepted.

And you know, all of that. And now I think about I’m like, Hey look, I had all of those experiences with very less pressure and actually had fun. So yeah, that was, that was what it was. I know. It’s not probably the answer you were looking for. I’m sorry for that. Yeah, it was, it’s a, it’s amazing because as you say, I mean, one of mine was to sort of fear of missing out on what.

[00:55:00] Tomorrow might what, what might happen tomorrow? That was sometimes one of my greatest fears is you might miss the most exciting, the most incredible experience by not going on to the finish. And like, with all these trips, the, the end, there’s always quite hollow and it’s always quite, it never quite lives up to how it one might imagine, but it’s actually the experiences in between that really matter.

Yeah. I’m sure there’s probably someone saying no, no, no. The world record was amazing for me. Thank you very much. Oh God. I mean, I will say that I would have quite liked that I had trained so hard to make sure that my body was ready to pull 200 miles a day and make it run the world in a hundred days.

Yeah. That’s not how it works. That’s just not how life works. Is it? [00:56:00] Well, you don’t really get what you need, what you want, you get what you need. What, what was that phrase? Something on those lines. Isn’t it, I’m not wise enough to say that, but someone else has said that and I just copied it. Well, I mean, that’s just an incredible story and thank you so much for sharing it today.

There’s, there’s a part of the show where we asked the same five questions to each guest each week with their first beam on your trip or expeditions, what’s the one gadget that you always take with you? Anything that plays music and the deepest, darkest times. I need my music. I need my queen playlist.

I need to play somebody to love.

What about your favorite adventure? Oh, favorite adventure book. There’s so many, there’s so many. I recently read Anna McNutt. [00:57:00] Was it Accenture stories for adults, bedtime stories for adults. Anyway, that one, I quite like that. Oh, there’s so many that I actually like and enjoy, like, I really liked Julian of Eurowings disorder.

Right. Because that started so many beautiful things for me. So I’m going to go with that as well. Very nice. Why are adventures important to you? Because that’s where I feel more myself when I’m riding my bike or when I’m kind of walking through terrains that are, I don’t know, unfamiliar to me.

That’s where I feel like I try. Under kind of conditions, which are out of my control. And I also feel very well obviously the incredible sense of freedom [00:58:00] that comes through adventure is something that I didn’t think I should mention because it kind of is obvious, but yeah, just feeling more myself and feeling in control of my reactions and yeah.

What I’m doing and, you know, my decisions and just the self-sufficient feeling favorite Quate. The only way out is through that was written on online bike by this guy called Abdulaziz who won Trans-Am bike race back in 2019, I want to say, and he got the course record for it. I think I could be wrong.

I don’t know about the course record, but he won it by miles and miles. If not days, it was incredible. He is incredible. He filmed the first half of my Australian ride. And, and before continuing, I asked him to, because he’s such a legend and I was like, you got [00:59:00] to write something that I I’m going to want to remind myself off on my bike and on a sticky note, Heber, the only way out is through.

And yeah, that was it like ever since then, every time I find find myself in a sticky situation, that’s what I tell myself. The only way out is through. People listening are always keen to travel and go on these sort of grand expeditions. Well, so one thing that you would recommend for people wanting to get started to just get started would be the recommendation, because most of the incredible things that happen happen when you actually do take that first step.

And obviously it’s not obvious at the time it does feel like that. Something always incomplete. That’s never actually going to be the perfect time to get started. So yeah, stick to your own schedule. Don’t let other people [01:00:00] tell you that you haven’t prepared enough. You are not enough. Like you need to do more and think more and have more to get started with what you want to get started with.

Like, don’t let other people dictate that on you. Like if you think you’re ready and even if you don’t think you’re ready, if you’ve set a date, then. Do it, when that date has come or, you know, just get started finally, what now? What are you doing and how can people follow your adventures in the future?

That’s complicated what I’m doing. I, I’m doing a lot of things right now, so I, I do a lot of freelance writing for different magazines and other websites. I am writing a book right now. I’m running a business called the adventure ship through which I help manage and plan expeditions and adventures for people [01:01:00] you know, help with the logistics, the finances and the sponsorships and all that marketing, all that sort of stuff.

And Yeah. And I’m also kind of I’m doing some project management stuff, so I’m setting up a mountain biking race soon. And then I’m also setting up an adventure festival somewhere that I can’t mention just yet. So yeah, I’m doing a lot of things. And then training for Silkroad mountain race.

Last time I tried it, that didn’t go well, so this time we’ll see yeah, I’m going to look at it as an adventure or to race, so that actually get through it. But yeah, so that’s kind of the stuff that I’m doing right now. And as of tomorrow, I will be back on the road for the second half of an adventure.

As for where you can find me, you can find me on my social media [01:02:00] channels. So on Instagram and Twitter, I I’m apt wheels and words. So w H w E L S w O R D S that’s wheels and words and yeah, on Facebook. I’m the donkey Carney. Yeah. That’s, that’s where you can find me. And yeah, if you’re planning your next adventure, please do email me.

I would love to chat about it. And I recently launched something called adventure planning, blueprint which is a document where you can literally, we can use that document to plan your adventure from start to end. And it includes the templates and resources that are necessary to put your stuff like together and everything from like framing a sponsorship emails, for example, or a proposal, or.

You know, migrating marketing plan for that matter, like all that sort of stuff, but also route plan, risk management [01:03:00] and stuff like that. It’s all there. It’s been an absolute pleasure listening to your stories. And I can’t thank you enough for coming on the podcast today. Thank you for having me and yeah, it’s been, it’s been great.

And I feel like chatting about my adventures today is going to help me for the adventure that I’m about to like set off on tomorrow. So yeah. Thank you so much. Is it for today? Thank you so much for watching and I hope you got something out of it. If you did hit that like button and subscribe, if you haven’t already, and I will see you in the next.

Jordan Wylie

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Jordan Wylie (Extreme Adventurer)

On today’s podcast, we are talking with Jordan Wylie. He is a former soldier, author and extreme adventurer.

He has raised over a million pounds for charity and completed numerous expeditions, including the highly publicised Running Dangerously, which saw him run through Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia, and Barefoot Warrior which involved climbing Mt Kilimanjaro completely barefoot!

In 2020 he wrote his name into the Guinness Book of Records by Standup Paddleboarding (SUP) for further and longer at sea than anyone ever has before in history

On the podcast, we talk about his trips and expeditions and about why he pursues these extreme adventures.

Jordan’s Instagram

Jordan’s Website

Video Podcast

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Transcript of our Conversation

Jordan Wylie

[00:00:00] Jordan Wylie: Hello, and welcome to the modern adventurer podcast coming up, been invited. And I said, well, I’m going to, I’m going to climb it barefoot. And I’m going to give it a bit of a, an identity. I’m going to call it barefoot warrior, make a nice little logo and a website and see how it goes. And it raised nearly 70,000 pound and they walked alongside me and they raised, you know, a, a thousand pound I think, or 2000 pounds, but a significantly, a lot less, but still an amazing amount of money.

And I thought all I did was the same as them, but with no shoes on. And I thought so you don’t have to be a genius. You don’t have to have this super profile. You don’t have to be a celebrity or anything like that to raise a lot of money. You’ve just got to think outside the box and do things differently.

My next guest is a former soldier best-selling author and an extreme adventurer from [00:01:00] his expedition running dangerously, which was running a marathon in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Somalia to paddle boarding around the UK. It’s also the host of the channel four series hunted. And today on the podcast, we talk about a number of his trips.

And about why he does these extreme adventures. So I am delighted to introduce Jordan Wiley to the show. Thanks for having me a pleasure to be here at Laster. I know it’s been there quite a few, a few attempts, but I mean, absolutely amazing to have you on what I absolutely love about your story. It’s a sort of transition from the army to what you’re doing now and sort of inspiring so many people.

Let’s sort of go back to the beginning. How did this all sort of start for you? You’re not familiar. I grew up in Blackpool in Lancashire and I guess. You know, if I’m being completely honest, it was joining the military was [00:02:00] really sort of a lack of other opportunities. At that age of sort of 16 years old, you know, I I’m, I’m not too proud to say that I left school with no qualifications.

I, you know, I really didn’t apply myself and that’s something I right. To share those lessons with young people today because I had the opportunity to go to education, but didn’t put the effort in. And what I later learned in life is actually to have the opportunities are privileged in itself on like a lot of children around the world.

But, you know, I, I learned that lesson and I, and I certainly tried to share that lesson, but very proud to say, actually that I went back to education as a soldier in the army and did my. I did a bachelor’s and a master’s degree. So sort of turned it around and, you know, owe a lot to the military for that, that, that opportunity in itself.

Yeah. Yeah. I joined the army at 16 because I didn’t how many qualifications I ended up again with limited options inside the army. So my opportunities were really joined the infantry or joined the Royal Ahmed coal, which you both the two fighting units, if you like, or the fighting arms of the [00:03:00] the British army.

So, yeah. I joined a tank regimen and I spent the next 10 years that really had lots of. Great experiences traveling around the world obviously took part in different operations in places like Iraq and Northern Ireland. And, you know, really, I think got to, got to grow up quickly and got to understand, you know, for me, real education I learned in the army is about me in people and traveling to different places.

That’s where, you know, really gives you solid ground. And I think in life, but also. I learned values. I think the values and standards of the British army probably what sets them apart from, from most organizations in the world. You know, we, we sort of live and breathe our values of, of courage respect for others, integrity, loyalty, discipline, selfless commitment.

And those core values are integral to, you know, to being a soldier and, and still the same values. In fact that I carry and I’ve left the army 10 years ago, but they’re still the same values that I try to uphold and carry everyday now as a civilian, because [00:04:00] for me, I think they’re probably the best decision making tool that I ever ever gained in life.

You know, because you always know if you’re doing right or wrong because you, you, you question and hold yourself accountable to your values, I think. And, and that’s what the military was, was really good at. And I think that’s why. A lot of people struggle when they come out of the forces because you lose that, that sense of belonging, that sense of, of pride, that sense of purpose.

And I think you have to sort of try to cling on and remember those values because that’s also, what’s going to pull you out and keep you going and, and pushing forward. But yeah, 10 years in the army and then left the army. I spent five years in the private security sector, sort of dealing with piracy off the, off the east coast of Africa, of Somalia.

Dealing with the, the, the, the piracy threat between sort of 2009, 2013, 14. And then really from then, it’s been for the last six or seven years, I guess, a life of adventure. Obviously lots of twists and turns along the way way, but I think, [00:05:00] you know, we all have ups and downs in life. I’ve certainly, I speak quite openly about things like mental health, you know, I’ve admired my low points.

I still take medication for depression, anxiety today. But try to stay positive, try to have that. I guess that growth mindset that you know, that, and these days I try to try to find positives even in what would be perceived negatives as well, you know, whether that’s lessons or, you know, things to change for next time.

So, you know, it’s, it’s been an incredible journey so far, we’ve, you know, lots of twists and turns, as I say, Okay, well, let’s, let’s sort of get into it because you, when Somalia, you sort of, you were there for quite a bit of time. And then afterwards you decided to sort of run marathons in all these sort of war torn areas.

What was the sort of purpose behind doing these marathons? Then, you know, the, the, the, the, the project was called running dangerously, and it was, it was really about going back to places that I’ve ever worked in or served in as a soldier. [00:06:00] And. And highlighting the plight of the children in these places, because, you know, as a soldier, I think I was always able to process the, some of the hardships we went through, you know, losing friends, losing colleagues, which is obviously absolutely tragic, but I.

I was always able to understand that because it was part of life as a soldier. You know, you, you, you go to war and unfortunately bad things happen and, and you have to deal with that. But what I always struggled with was, was seen children injured, hurt, maimed, whatever it might be. And that was something that I.

Trouble to process, because I think for me, children are always the innocent victims of a conflict when one breaks out, because there are the victims of circumstance, you know, an adult can, can normally leave the country, leave the region or choose to stand and fight. You know, if they’re in a war, whereas a child is just there and there’s nothing they can really do.

And I, you know, I met, I met lots of children who have lost their families, their loved ones, their friends, their schools had been blown up or whatever it might be, you know, real. Real hard lives that these [00:07:00] children live. And some of them have only, you know, they’d been born in war and conflict zones and that’s all they’ve ever known.

You know, I, I can remember 18 months ago I was in Syria and I met a child and, you know, there was a sort of large blast, a couple of miles away, and I was sort of ex military jumping on the floor, trying to get into cover away from, you know, this noise and the child just carried on playing football. And I.

Bloody hell, what’s this, what’s this kid doing. And then my interpreter who was with me said, Jordan, this is normal for them. They don’t, they’re not scared. This is, this is how they’ve grown up, you know, with bombs and bullets around them. And I just made me think, you know, what a, what a tragic sort of state of affairs that a child doesn’t even flinch when When a bullets being shot or a bombs going off because that’s all they know is normal.

And yeah, the, the running dangerously project was about, was about raising awareness and funds to try and provide opportunities for children in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Somalia. So I decided to go back to those countries and actually also to show people that these countries aren’t full of bad nasty [00:08:00] people, because.

You know, sometimes you flick on the news these days, you, you, you look at the media online and you Google it Iraq or Afghanistan, Somalia, you see a lot of negative stories by default. You will see bombs, bullets, terrorists, Taliban Al-Qaeda and whatever else. But actually that’s a very small percentage of the people in those countries, you know, less than 1% probably actually.

But. They’re the stories that make the headlines. And I want it to show people that these countries are full of natural beauty. They’re incredible places to go for an adventure. They’re also full of amazing, warm, loving, hospitable people that there’s like me and you, you know, they, they want to do good.

They want to go to work. They want to go home and have their food and love their family. They don’t want war. And so for me, it was important to try and challenge. Certainly the Western perceptions of these countries, because in Afghanistan, it is probably one of the most beautiful countries in the world, you know, in, in, in certainly where I was in, in the Bamiyan province in central Afghanistan, it’s got probably the most beautiful national [00:09:00] park I’ve ever been to.

You know, and we run through it. People we paddleboard in. They’re amazing, you know, and well, people would never go there because it’s it’s Afghanistan and it comes with it. The tarnish of the Western brush that says negative vibes, energy, but incredible countries. All three of them. Yeah. He had Nick butter on recently and he ran a marathon in every country.

He said, when he went into like Syria, he was sort of expecting this war torn area and he came into just such incredible hospit hospitality. And it’s it’s that throughout the whole world, I did a trip a few years ago to, towards Afghanistan on sort of on the border and people who have had on like Ava last couple of weeks, it’s always the same, this incredible beauty and hospitality.

And sometimes the Western media have sort of, as you say, tarnished, The reputations of that country. So no matter what happens the next sort of [00:10:00] 10 years, everyone will associate those countries. We have war. I, you know, I, when I came back from Afghanistan in particular I did a news interview with the BBC and they sort of was running with the narrative that, you know, crazy adventure running through the war zone and this, and they said, you know, you could have been killed, you could have done this, that and the other.

And I said, okay, I said when I was in Afghanistan, I, nobody said anything bad to me. Nobody tried to hurt me. Nobody tried to attack me. But when I was on the tube on the way to your interview this morning, there was somebody with a knife that was threatening people. You know, in limbo. Yeah. And for me, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s contact is everything.

And then I traveled through Afghanistan without any real problems. Of course there’s always security concerns. Of course, we’re always doing risk assessments. And of course there are hotspots, but you know, I, I see more violence on the streets of London. Then I saw on that particular trip of Afghanistan.

Yeah, it was. So it was a story of a guy. He, I can’t remember his name cycled around the world. You know, used to leave his bike [00:11:00] everywhere, where he went running the entire world. And then when he got back to the UK, left it, you know, just outside a shop to go and pick up some food and it was nicked within the first 10 days.

It sounds about right. I see. Yeah, I sort of, I, what I, what I love is this sort of idea of breaking down perceptions of other countries, which yeah. Usually get a sort of, bit of a bad press. And so you raised quite a bit of money for those. Charities by doing that. Yeah, absolutely. You know, for me you know, the charity sector is very interesting because I’ve, I’ve, I’ve raised lots of money for lots of different causes or causes over the years, but.

I really, over the last few years, I’ve really drilled down into a sort of accountability. I want to know where every penny is going, that I’m raising. You know, I don’t like this idea and I just collect money and hand it over to one of these large sort of almost corporate type challenged charities that you don’t really know if your funds are going to help or not.

You just know that you’ve [00:12:00] sent it to someone who should be sending it to the right place. And, and that really booked me after the running dangerously project. You know, I, I was asking lots of questions and. And I really wanted to tell my donors, which, you know, we built a new school of, we provided resources that we funded some teachers and some of the charities got to tell me that they just said it, you know, it goes into the big pot and we distribute it accordingly across several programs.

And I just thought, you know, I understand that, but that’s not good enough for me and the people that I want to be accountable to. So, you know, I, I ended up setting up with some trustees as a very small charity called frontline children. And. That is a charity that’s quite unique in some respect because we, we, we have no salaried staff, we don’t take expenses.

And we know that every penny goes to where it needs to go. We publish our accounts online and any donor really wants to interrogate any program or accounting is very welcome to. So, you know, I, I really take a lot of pride that, that every penny that I collect these days is going exactly where it should be going.

[00:13:00] And that, you know, but at the same time, because we don’t have any salaried staff and we rely completely on volunteers, our growth is very limited. We can only work on very small programs, but we, you know, we’ve just built a school from scratch. And that was incredible. Cause that’s three years of fundraising on the horn of Africa.

So then. Go from, you know, a piece of wasteland that was gifted as gifted to us by the government to then opening a school for up to 250 kids is all come through these adventures and people sponsoring them. And, and for me, that’s really powerful because we’ve done that from nothing. We’ve not, you know, that’s completely volunteers, amazing kind of public people, and we we’ve managed it ourselves and delivered it and handed it over to the government now, which is.

Which is w you know, we’re super proud of that because that, that is really making a difference and having an impact in a certain part of the work. It’s amazing. You, you, as you say, with your adventures, there’s such a sort of. Inspiring element to it because you’ve done some pretty crazy ones over the years, barefoot running the Crow [00:14:00] up Kilimanjaro.

Yeah. Yeah, we’ve done lots of it. It was a really interesting, that was, that was probably my first real lesson in, in, in major fundraising actually, because you know, that that particular story was, you know, probably six, seven years ago now. And. I was two of my friends was asking if I wanted to come on a climbing expedition or hiking, trekking expedition to Kilimanjaro.

And they were raising money for a cancer charity at the time. And, you know, I was saying new to fundraising, but certainly new to manger fundraising on a large scale. And I said, Why don’t we do things differently instead of just going up it like a lot of people do every year, hundreds, thousands, maybe at why don’t we do it barefoot and take our shoes off.

And they obviously both looked at me like I was a bit crazy and a bit weird and, and said, no, and that’s silly idea. When I say, well, do you mind if I do that? You know, it wasn’t my challenge. It wasn’t my project as such. So I was, you know, I didn’t want to sort of in true, but I’d been invited and I said, well, I’m going to.

I’m going to climb it barefoot, and I’m going to give it a bit of a, an identity. I’m going to call it barefoot warrior, make a nice little logo and a website [00:15:00] and see how it goes. And it raised nearly 70,000 pound and they walked alongside me and they raised, you know, a thousand pounds I think, or 2000 pounds, but a significantly, a lot less, but still an amazing amount of money.

And I thought all I did was the same as them, but with no shoes on. And I thought so. You don’t have to be a genius. You don’t have to have this super profile. You don’t have to be a celebrity or anything like that to raise a lot of money. You’ve just got to think outside the box and do things differently.

And that’s where really everything has stemmed from that idea, because. Or the, the, the, the running dangerously or the rowing dangerously or the great British puddle. These are, these are all pretty simple things. When you break them down, you know, if I’m running dangerously, I’m running a marathon, but I’m doing it in another country.

But you know, we, we make it sound sexy. We make it sound appealing. It attracts the media’s attention. And when you’ve got the media’s attention, you then have the access to the masses of people. So I, I try to look at a cycle. And so first you, you build your project identity, you know, it needs a, it needs a catchy name.

It needs a logo, you [00:16:00] know, give it a website, give it a bit of branding. And then what you do is you pitch it to the media and tell them what you’re going to do. Because if you just go to the people, that’s a hard slog, you know, you’re relying on hundreds of spam in Facebook posts all the time or, or Instagram or whatever.

But if you go to the media, They do that job for you. They tell the whole world about it. So, you know, I, I worked out this sort of recipe that, you know, that, that I’ve used and seems to keep working. Of course, you’ve got to find something that often that has not been done before, or that’s been done before.

What you did it with a twist, or maybe it’s a world record or a world first. And obviously they had a bit more appeal to the media because getting the media’s attention is normally the hard bit. So that’s why it’s got to stand out. But yeah, I use the same formula each time. It’s, it’s not a secret and it tends to work, you know, and, and at the same time, if you cannot build your personal brand and profile alongside that, you can then start to attract corporates as well.

Who, who also want exposure from the media. So, you know, again, it’s finding things that [00:17:00] work for everybody, because then you speak to a corporate and you tell them I’m going to be on the BBC sky news or good morning Britain or whatever it might be. And I’m going to wear your t-shirt or your cap.

Everyone’s winning because they’re happy as well. So, you know, there’s a, there’s a lot of as, as you know, as good as anyone when you’re doing these, the adventure is actually the adventure itself is the easy bit. It’s all the stuff that people don’t see. It’s the logistics, it’s the media. It’s, it’s the sponsorship, the donors, the charity stuff.

That’s the stuff that is the real hard slog that, that people don’t see. It’s that it’s that iceberg effect. You know, they just see that, that the flag at the end where you’re celebrating or something, they don’t see that the slug of, of, of getting it done and get bringing it together. Yeah, it’s usually the sort of adventures are the easy part.

This sort of. Slug of, as, as you say, asking people, if you haven’t got the media element is just, I personally find it just the hardest part of it. As you say, with the adventure, you’ve planned it, you know, it, you are fit enough for it. So you’re like, okay, do it. I think it’s about relationships as well. [00:18:00] You know, I try to.

I spend a lot of time on, on maintaining and, and cultivate in relationships with, with brands, with partners and, and try and over deliver. So then trying to provide them more value than, than, than they’ve been promised. You know, I think I, I try to never promise that I’m going to give you a documentary or a book or.

You know, a sky news interview, but I go on my way to try and make that happen, you know, and I think they really appreciate that and they respect that. And, and, and then you, you sort of over-delivering on your, on your promises, which is what everyone wants in, in, in commercial world or business. They, they, they want more than they paid for.

And, you know, and, and not really being able to do that relies on the strength of networks, you know, being able to reach out to a media organization or a brand and say, this is what I’m doing. Can you help? And. And they will help because you’ve been spending a lot of time helping them in the past. And I think where a lot of people get it wrong in these circumstances is they, they only go to people when they want something.

And that’s a terrible human habit, which a lot of people have. They, they go and [00:19:00] ask somebody because, you know, they might not have spoke to that person for a year or two years or never at all, but they’ve reached out because they want something from them as opposed to staying in touch with them, seeing how they can help them.

You know, somebody said to me many years ago that. The the, the real currency of networking is generosity. And it’s something I try to live by. I try to help as many people as possible to encourage to support. So sometimes people might want a little video or a quote, and there’s no harm in doing it if they’re doing it for a good cause that why not?

You know, I asked people, I’ve asked several people recently, can you. Can you provide a quote for a new book or a website? Some people say no, some people don’t reply it. I just think, well, why not? It’s for a good cause you’re trying to do good in the world. Why, why not help somebody? And I don’t know why, why not book for me?

If I can help somebody, I will always help somebody if you’re trying to do something good. And I think. I think the world is it’s very reciprocal. If you try and do good, good things tend to happen and you don’t have to worry about what you’re going to get because it happens naturally. No, I, I completely agree with you on that.

It, [00:20:00] relationships are a huge part. And actually what I’m finding, especially by doing this podcast is by just speaking to everyone, you learn so much and you’re using your platform in order to get the sort of word out about other people. You know, I started the podcast because I thought it’d be really interesting to speak to people like yourself who I wouldn’t otherwise, you know, during a lockdown, whatever have had the chance of bumping into.

And it’s this sort of thing of just making, trying to give, use your platform for the good of. You know, inspiring other people massively. I think it’s huge. I think, and I would even go as far as to say that that to me personally, where I am at this stage of my life is that’s how I would measure success.

Is it success to me today is, is very different than 10 years ago. Success to me today is, is how much of a positive impact can I have on. The next generations lives and the more people I can positive, [00:21:00] positively impact the more successful I am, but that’s how I measure my own success today. If I can inspire, if I can motivate and courage, educate younger people, then for me, you know, I’m winning and then winning and we’re all winning.

So I absolutely couldn’t agree more. So you’ve had quite a interesting puddle boarding experience recently. This was paddle boarding around the, the UK or the breast of Charles. Yeah. Yeah, it was a, it was a, I guess, a world first attempt to paddleboard around mainland great Britain. I set off on the 26th of July, 2020 and was unfortunately brought to a halt on the 24th, 23rd of December, 2020 after five months at sea.

Unfortunately the Scottish government and the first minister decided that I would be in breach of COVID regulations to continue my puddle, which is, which is crying, which is another story than a debate for another day, because I was living on a support boat in the [00:22:00] middle of the ocean. But you know, I’m, I’m, I, I genuinely, I’m not, I’m not bitter about that at all, because.

We achieved our objective, which was to build a school and raise as much awareness as much funds and inspire as many people as possible. So, you know, it is what it is, you know, there’s nothing I could have done about that. And actually when I, when we received that message to continue would have been doing the wrong thing and wouldn’t have been leading by example, we’ve been asked by official authorities to stop.

So. That was what we did. You know, a lot of people said, you should have continued, you should have argued it. But I think he would have left a bit, a sour taste in our mouth. We were asked to stop by the authorities. So we did, as we were told, and, and sometimes you got to do what the right thing to do is, and not necessarily what you want in life.

I think you learn as you, as you get older. So, but yeah, what, what an incredible experience and an amazing team of people working with me throughout that. We paddled the 2,377 kilometers over 149 days, seven hours and 33 minutes, which was longer than anyone’s puddle water before on the [00:23:00] open ocean. So we’re incredibly proud of that.

You know, that, that adventure, that expedition, and as I say, most importantly, we raised an incredible amount of money. And for me it was brand new. I’d never paddled on the ocean before I set off. So. You know, I wanted to show people that you can, you can do anything you want, as long as you leave it, you prepare to work at it and never give up most importantly, because, you know, there were lots of days when I wanted to give up and go home.

You know, there’s nothing pleasant about, you know, drop him off the west coast of Scotland at three in the morning in Sub-Zero temperatures, falling in the water, you know in the pitch black and you can’t even see your board. You know, you’re only getting back on it cause you’re attached to it. It’s it was an amazing adventure and I wouldn’t change it for the world.

So what was the sort of root of that? Was that when did you start from? So we started in, in Essex, in on Wallasey island. We came out that the Thames estuary there and when south to Ken, along from cancer lungs and from [00:24:00] London, we went up towards north Devin and then we crossed the lung, the island in the Bristol channel.

Leaving the island to Milford Haven, south Wales from south Wales. I paddled the, probably one of the most difficult puddles, which was the cross, the Irish seat across the Irish sea to island on my puddle board. And then I paddled up the Irish coast into Northern Ireland and then puddle back across to the middle of Kintyre in Scotland on the west coast of Scotland, past the inner outer Hebrides.

Took a ride at Cape wrath in November, December. And then yeah, had it taught general groves and got to 23 kilometers short of general groves. And we pulled up after five months and would have been the first bloke to do a puddle from London to jello groves, but it was, it wasn’t to be, and, you know, we, we could have, we could have probably.

Carried on another 23 kilometers, but it would have all been about the record then, and I didn’t want it to be about records. I wanted it to be about the purpose and the cause. And so it was important to, to go home. And also it was the day before [00:25:00] Christmas. So stop in at that point, after we got asked, instead of carried on one more day also allowed the whole team and the crew to go home, to spend Christmas with their families, you know, so.

I mean, it was about, you know, doing the right thing and doing good things in the world, not, not about, you know, trophy certificates or egos or anything like that. Yeah. Was quite something to be 20, 23 kilometers short, which would have been what a day. And they were very, very noble of you to be like you where we stopped now.

It’s like sort of getting to 20 meters before Everest and being late. I’m not feeling it. That’s good. But know, we we’ve, we’ve been asked them, we will be tracked by the government. So, you know, we, as I say, we did the right thing, but also a friend of mine, Brendan prince he’s currently out paddling around great Britain.

He’s trying to set the world record and break my. My record of, of longest ocean sort journey. So an incredible guy doing it for an amazing cause as well. So I wanted [00:26:00] to give him a shout out because he is he’s about six weeks into his puddle is, is just going up. Sure. The west coast of Wales Pembrokeshire now we sell from talkie.

So I really hope that Brendan does what I wasn’t able to do. I’m, I’m, you know, nobody’s supporting him more than I am. I’m a super fan and I hope that he gets around because he’s doing it for the right reasons. And I’m hoping, I’m sure he will be a great success. Oh, amazing. Yeah, it’s as you say, K.

November December up in Scotland in the sea, must’ve been pretty cold. It was very cold. It was, it was, you know, I can remember we had a, a good filmmaker, great filmmaker with us, Alfie marsh and. I can remember it would, it would sort of come into my cabin and shape me in my sleeping bag. And, you know, my, my bed was like frozen.

My sleeping bag was frozen and it was a horrible shake and said, it’s time or at the RV point in the water. And it’d be, it’d be like three, four in the morning and you couldn’t [00:27:00] see a thing. You were shivering. And then you had to put on a cold, damp, wet suit, and there’s nothing worse, but you know, that, that was where I think.

And we talked about core values before, and one of the military core values or the Army’s is discipline. And I think discipline is often a value and a character trait that is overlooked, especially in adventure, because discipline is so important when it comes to achieving your goals. Because discipline for me is about.

Still getting up and turning up and giving it your all, even when you don’t want it, when you’ve had enough and it’s having that discipline and that routine to keep going and pushing forward. And I think discipline is a really important trait and it’s something that if it wasn’t for discipline ID, I wrapped on it a long time ago, you know as we got into Scotland, there was many times when I wanted to quit and go home, but you know, it was, it was discipline and remembering why we started that for sure.

Yeah. I think your, why has to be really important? No the biggest, I think he’s everything. I think that’s the difference between, you know, [00:28:00] for me, it’s, it’s it’s people say, oh, why, why D why do you do the marathons in the war zones? Or why did you roll across dangerous stretch of ocean? Or, you know, why paddle around the UK?

But actually, if someone said to me, I could raise a quarter of a million dollars by running a 5k part will not be much happier doing that because that’s a lot easier. I get to go home at the end of it and see my family, my daughter, but actually. You need to do pretty epic things. If you’re gonna raise pretty epic amounts of money.

Unfortunately, that’s, that’s, that’s the bill that I don’t know, you know, if, if you want to be a serious foot razor on it, you know, you have to have a powerful why and a strong story to go with it. And the, you know, there’s a lot of very incredible, inspiring people out there and they’re pushing the boundaries all the time, you know?

A good friend of mine NIMS die, you know, with his, his, his mountain area. Then these 14, 8,000 meter peak records. That is, it’s just insane. You know, the level of endurance that the bar just keeps getting higher and higher from these incredible [00:29:00] athletes, adventurers inspiring people. And so, so, you know, the more, the more barriers that are pushed the further and harder, we’ve all got to work, you know, and I suppose what I loved about your story is to sort of.

Connection, which has sort of led you to where you are today with your charity work with your presenting. Because I remember reading about how you got the job at hunted. For channel four, which was just this sort of course, which you had done in the army, which no one really wanted to do, but that somehow led to you getting this job.

I served in that in a, in a cavalry regimen in its time regimen. But when we went on operations, there would be opportunities to go and do certain courses. I went and specialized in some intelligence courses in, in tactical question prisoner handling and dealing, you know, providing briefings to troops on the ground, using processing intelligence and things [00:30:00] like that.

And you have 10 years later, I got a phone call from a producer saying that we we’ve seen that you’ve completed this course. Would you be interested, we’re looking for someone with ex military intelligence experience. Would you be interested to, to do an interview with a screen Tufts? And I was like, yeah, yeah, of course.

I worked with it. And that was that really. And, you know, it’s a great opportunity. I’m not a big fan of of reality TV to be completely honest. I don’t watch a lot of TV. But what I do like about that particular program and it gives, it helps with the charity stuff. You know, people people support, people are big fans of the show they love the show is, is, is.

It’s great entertainment. It’s great fun, but it also allows me to use my profile to do some good in the world. So I think that’s why I enjoy it so much because it’s nothing more frustrating when you go and speak to a, a business or a school or a college. And you want to talk about one of these amazing adventures that you’ve just finished [00:31:00] and all they want to know is what was it like when you caught this person off of love island or big brother or no?

Well, what children love these days? Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s tough as well, because I, I was in assembly the other day with a school wheelchair and I asked the kids, you know, some of the kids asked him, what do you want to be when you’re older? And it’s, it’s scary. They want to be, they want to be YouTube as they want to be Instagram models.

They want to be influencers, you know, it’s. I’m scared for the next generation. You know, the, the internet does a lot of good, but also it’s changing the way people think. And it’s, it’s concerning for me. You know, 20 years ago, 10 years ago, people wanting to be astronauts. They want it to be scientists.

They want it to be inventors. Now they want to be famous, which is not good. I don’t think that’s scary. I th I think yeah, definitely sort of moving towards that. I’m trying to sort of think of what I wanted to be. I think I wanted to be a football player. Yeah. I sort of feel [00:32:00] like my time has passed now.

I’m sort of the same age of James Milanai. He’s probably getting to the end. So I’m a bit like okay. If you’re going to influence, influence good things, positive things, inspire, educate, inform. I think, you know, don’t sell your soul for, you know, a capital or a new food product. That’s just come out. I think I just, I just think there’s a.

It’s probably one of my biggest gripes in life at the moment. I think, I think that people, well, do you have a profile or have a large following of any sort, they should have a responsibility and be accountable to, to deliver good things to the world because do you know it’s, it’s scary because you, you can go on one of these reality shows and you can, you can have more influence than a mainstream politician.

You know, people who have come out of things like love island have more followers than the prime minister. And that means more people are probably listening to them and being influenced by what they say. And I just think if you, if you are an influencer, you know, I [00:33:00] challenge you, I question you to it. So to be accountable, to the message you’re pushing out there to young people, I think it’s important.

Well, Jordan thank you so much. I, there’s a part of the show where we are the same five questions to each guest each week with the first being on your trips and expeditions, what’s the one thing. Or gadget that you always take with you. Oh, good question. One thing that I always say with me, and this is not a plug I’m not paid is a water to go bottle.

The, you know, the, the filtration bottles. So I always carry a water to go bottle in my day. Sack. Again, you know, water is an integral part of staying alive. So if you can find, especially when you’re in some of the far-fetched places of the world in, in jungles and rivers and things incredible piece of kit and, you know, I, I take that everywhere.

It might in my day suck. Nice. What about your favorite adventure or travel book? I think Lev [00:34:00] would Levinson would, does a lot of great, he’s a great travel writer. Do some, some brilliant stuff. You know, some of his walks through the Himalayas, the Arabian peninsula really good captivate in books.

I enjoyed when I was paddling around great Britain. I enjoyed reading Fiona Quinn’s book about her London to John O’Groats shop. And that was good. Cause I, I would use it for reference points. I would check where, what she was thinking and experience when I was at that part of. Of of the country. So that was it.

That was a good read for me. But yeah, no, a lot, lots of incredible books out there. Ash dykes, another great adventurer. He has a great book, a great, a great book out. I’m trying to think of the name of it. Mission possible. I think it was. Yeah. Yeah. Good guy. Good friend of mine. Very inspiring.

Why are adventures important to you? I think for me, the, the adventure itself. It’s it’s it’s dare I say, it’s not that important. It’s the reason why we’re doing the adventure. What’s important, you know, it’s, it’s what [00:35:00] we can learn from it, what we can share from it. That’s what’s important. I also think that people should understand that you don’t need to go to the other side of the world or do something crazy to have an amazing adventure.

Adventure is a mindset. Adventure is about changing the way you think it’s about changing your approach to everyday life. You know, you don’t have to spend a lot of money. You don’t have to travel far. You can have an adventure anywhere. Some of the best adventures in lockdown were in my back garden with my daughter.

You know, it’s, it’s, it’s a spirit that you have within you, I think. What about your favorite quaint? Ooh, God, I have so many quotes, but I’m like a walking encyclopedia of quotes. What? I I’ll give you a quote, but I wouldn’t like to say it was my favorite because I got so many, but I think one of the quotes I like at the moment is.

Is all I’m going to give you one now? I think I would say tough times don’t last but tough people do. [00:36:00] I also, like when I give someone a quote yesterday, I’m trying to think of what it was. The toughest roads often lead to lead to the most beautiful destinations a lot. I like that one. But there’s so many, I love the money in the arena.

You know, Theodore Roosevelt’s. Man in the arena quote passage I’ve had that, I had that on the back of my paddle board and I had it on my, my boat for my row. It was something that, you know, I, I really liked the concept of that. You know, if you’re not in the arena, getting your, your book kicked, you know, at the time, then.

The people who are having opinions on you don’t really have the right to, or the privilege to. So, you know, I, I remember when I set up on the, on the paddle board, people were telling me I wouldn’t get to London. You would never cross the IRC. You wouldn’t make it up to Scotland. Nobody’s been round Cape RAF in the winter.

It’s impossible. You don’t have the experience, the knowledge, the skills. So you know, it always makes me smile that money in the arena, quote, because everyone has an opinion from, you know, what I call the cheap seats, which is social [00:37:00] media. Everyone’s got an opinion on everything other than critics.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I remember my first trip to America and I had never been, so I was getting people’s opinion and a lot of people were giving me opinions of like, Ooh, Pennsylvania is a really dangerous place. You and they were sort of giving me these sort of scare stories about once upon a time this happened.

And actually one, they had actually never been to that part of the world that any heard about it once in a blue moon. And secondly, when I went there, It was absolutely nothing like people had sort of made out there was just full of really welcoming and friendly people. And from then on, I suddenly realized that most people don’t really have a clue what they’re saying that the best of times, and people love to give their opinion.

And of course there are opinions, which, you know, you should always take, take into account, but I just remember thinking, well, you know, everyone gave me [00:38:00] these horrific scare stories of America. And the reality was is that they will, some of the most hospitable people I’ve ever experienced in my travels.

Yeah. And the same, I think the same everywhere in the world in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia. Yeah. I, he, I, I saw more compassion, love support than I’ve ever seen. You know, and these are from people who a lot of people perceived it to be negative types of people, which is it’s incredible. I think. You know, when I worked in intelligence, we were constantly evaluating information and the source of that information.

And I use that same sort of process with feedback and people’s opinions. I, you know, if someone’s got an opinion on whatever you’re doing, firstly, you know, what’s the source, who are they? Where did they come from? If they do what you’re trying to do are credible, are they, secondly, do they know you? If they did, they’ve never walked your path.

They’ve never. You know, walk your, your shoes for a day. So they don’t know what you’re thinking, what you’re doing enough to people make a judgment without knowing the facts in this world. As you say, the sort of [00:39:00] armchair critic who sort of gives the negative feedback on social media. And I w I always think someone I think he is Gary Vaynerchuk, or he said, you know, they listen to the positive and then you’ll know not to listen to the negative and no matter what comes at you, it’s just noise.

Yeah. Well, it’s, it’s hard. I think I’m not sure if I necessarily agree with that, because I think. Feedback is important, but you’ve just got to make sure that what you’re processing and letting come in is, is, is going to help you grow. It’s going to help you develop is going to, you know, because when, when you’re, when you’re, when I, when I’m doing a, an adventure and you’re getting lots of loving support in messages, you take a lot of strength from that as well.

You know, when, when you got people who’ve sponsored you or donated or sent you a lovely Facebook Instagram message, you know, you take a lot of positives that you’re inspiring people. So I. You know, I, I think feedback is important and, and engaging with people is really important. So I, I don’t think you should just sort of blank out anything.

Good. All, but I think [00:40:00] I, I think feedback is, is, is champion really? I suppose what I meant was when, when you have a hundred positive messages and you get that one very easy for people to sort of look at that one and be like, why have they said that? Why. It’s hard. It’s hard. Yeah, definitely. Why, why have they decided to say that it’s Ruffini but you’ve got like two or 300 really positive messages and you’re like, w why, why have they decided to say this?

Yeah, it’s very difficult as well. If you’re not used to that. And you know, you see with trolls and things on the internet, don’t you, you know, it’s. People always, you know, faceless keyboard warriors. They’ve always got an opinion on something and, you know, never left their, that the mom’s spare bedroom or whatever.

Very true. People listening are always keen to travel and go on these sort of grand expeditions. What’s the one thing you would recommend for people wanting to get started? [00:41:00] Are you just going to go for it? You know, I, I don’t always have the master plan. I don’t always have it all worked out for me. I see something and I make it happen.

You know, my dad used to say, there are, there are talkers and there are doers in life. And there are a lot more talkers than there are doers. And, you know, if you want something, go out there and get it, and you’ve gotta be relentless in pursuit of it as well. You know? Things don’t come easy in life. You know, you, you’ve got to make sacrifices, you’ve got to work hard.

You’ve got to save up. You’ve got to engage with people, but if you want to go make it happen, you know, the only thing that’s stopping you is you, you know, you know, you’re the person who is putting it on hold. You’re the person who’s stuck in that job that you don’t want to be in. You’re the person that’s sat in a, you know, on the computer all the time, get out there and go.

Yeah. And finally, what are you doing now? And how can people follow you in the future? Yeah. So yeah, lots of exciting adventures. Although at the moment I’m nursing an Achilles injury, so I’m pretty static at the moment, but I’m due to be. I’m due to be on the isle of Skye in four weeks time with Montaine doing some [00:42:00] filming for some new new products.

I am in Antarctica in December. I’m at the north pole in April next year. So lots of exciting things going on. I just need my, my Achilles to heal at the moment. And yeah, please follow the adventures. Mind socials app, Mr. Jordan Wiley on all platforms and Jordan wiley.org is the website. Right?

Amazing. Well, Jordan, thank you so much for coming on today. No absolute pleasure. Keep up the great work. It’s, it’s a, it’s an awesome platform telling some great stories. I I’m a fan and I certainly listened to it. So keep up the good work. Well, thank you very much. And we look forward to following your adventures in sky Antarctica and the north Paul.

Yeah, definitely. Well it’s air for today. Thank you so much for watching and I hope you got something out of it. If you did hit that like button and subscribe, if you haven’t already, and I will see you in the next video.

Matt Helliker

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Matt helliker (alpinist)

On today’s episode, we have Matt Helliker, and he certainly has a few stories to tell, Matt Helliker’s life has been shaped by mountains and coastlines, from the sea cliffs of Great Britain to Scotland’s winter mountains, the European Alps to the Greater Ranges of the Himalayas, South America and Alaska. Matt has become one of the UK’s most talented and accomplished alpinists, climber and IFMGA mountain guides of his generation, with a long list of challenging and impressive first and repeat ascents to his credit.

 Today on the podcast, we talk about why he pushes himself to these limits and the sacrifices he has made along the way.

Matt’s Website

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Transcript of our Conversation

Matt Helliker

[00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the modern adventurer, just coming up, you know, he come mixing my likes to climbing as well. Yeah, it, it can, it can have certainly sort of some sort of negative effects on other aspects of your life as well in terms of you know, relationships and all of that stuff down the road, because it just makes lots of stuff quite hard because you’re just so focused and driven in terms of what you’re doing.

Yeah. It’s quite, it can be, it can, it, it, it, it’s it’s an amazing thing to be able to do, but it can also then, you know, be not so positive and other aspects

My next guest is Matt. Halakha. One of Britain’s elite alpinists who has pioneered some of the most remarkable climbs around the world [00:01:00] from Alaska to south America. He bases himself in the UK today on the podcast. We talk about some of his expeditions from diet to everything. We talk about some of his amazing moments along the way and how he got started as a mixed climber.

So I am delighted to introduce Matt Helicon to the podcast. Thanks for having me on mate. No worries. Very good to me too. And I mean, you are what Britta, one of Britain’s in a best ALP outness is that we call it openness. Well, openness. Yeah. Openness is a very sort of I think confusing word for some, because people like, well, what is an openness as opposed to a main snare or what climber or, or, or a ski Mountaineer it’s it’s I guess it’s basically all those things combined, I guess.

Yeah, not, not just, not just one thing, but bringing all components of climbing and mountaineering together. And that makes for an openness, I guess. So how did this all start? How did you [00:02:00] first sort of discover rock climbing and this sort of love of it? Well well, I grew up, I grew up on the men that hails down in the Southwest of the UK and which is just south of Bristol and Bristol’s got a very, very vibrant sort of climbing scene.

You know, I mean now there is probably you know, people compare it to Sheffield in terms of where people want to be based as a climber. You know, Bristol’s like the, yeah, the, the chef would have the sight of the, see what I mean. So it’s a very, very good scene down, down this way. And and the climbing, the rock climbing around here, it’s actually curb and it gives you a lot of access to a lot of really, really good rock.

You can be done on the sides coast in an hour and a half. Same up to like the north coast of Devin to Pembroke. You know, you can climb on sea cliffs, you can Boulder on sea cliffs. You have the inline quarries that we have here as well. And also, you know, places like cheddar Gorge, which obviously sort of, you know [00:03:00] more sort of natural limestone gorgeous.

So there’s a really good zone. So actually So actually B to, to start rock climbing. And I was just very fortunate that I grew up here. And I literally find, I guess my feet cliff called split rock. I was known locally as split map for a while. Because basically I’d always be there. As a, as a, as a kid, you know, I started climbing when I was, when I was 12 and you know, I didn’t have a clue what I was doing upstage obviously and convince my, my father that that I did know.

And she’d be pretty trusting thinking a 12 year old knew what they were doing. But he would always come and help me to sort of set up top probes, but spit rock and just do some, just do some climbing up there. And then from, from there, it kind of like, they kind of grew God, this sort of 12 year old, he needs knees better.

Well, yeah, I mean yeah, it’s, it’s kind of strange really in a way. I mean yeah, a lot of trust out, I think. But but no, but [00:04:00] it’s a really, it’s a really cool place to, to start climbing, you know, there, there is a really good diversity of of, of rock types and of styles as well. But I guess I kind of you know, after sort of starting rock climbing you know, I started to feel the flow for that.

And then obviously after that point, I was kind of pretty fixated with the maintenance as well. And and I guess it felt like a natural progression for me to go from sort of what climbing and into, into winter climbing and then from winter climbing to the Alps and then from the Alps to the greater ranges.

And then two, yeah. Then two expeditions and. I think that’s what we touched upon as being an openness is, you know, you, you try to master all of those aspects and then you put it together into one neat package that allows you to go and do some really cool things in the maintains, just bringing all of those, all of those skills together.

And, and, and [00:05:00] certainly you know, from a UK perspective, we’re very, very lucky to have an amazing climbing scene here. You know the as I said earlier, the styles are vast. There’s there, there’s lots of different styles of climbing we can do in the UK. And also from a winter perspective as well.

I mean, you know, we have Scotland and and that as well, I kind of cut my teeth into, into, into winter climbing and and Scotland’s. In terms of mixed climbing, you know, a lot of climb all over the world is, is probably the best mix climbing in the world. Yeah, it’s, it’s on our doorsteps. The only problem with it is it’s very ephemeral.

It’s not always in good condition because from an ethical point of view you know, you have to get the right conditions to be climbing on the cliffs in Scotland. You can’t just go there’s snow on the ground. You can’t just go and scratch and dry, tall, your way up black clefs, you know, they have to rhymed up.

So therefore why me is basically, you know, plat, you know, snow that has frozen onto the rock face to give you that really beautiful [00:06:00] rhymes. Ice effect, and it looks like ice, but it’s just Ryan. And in Scottish winter climbing that you can only climb on these clips when they’re riding. So you need snow, you need the wind in the correct direction for those clips to rhyme up for the cliffs to become into condition from an ethical point of view, to be able to climbing on there.

So so Scotland’s very ephemeral from that point of view, but when you get it, it’s like amazing. I mean, I’ve been up here, I’ve been up to Scotland and I’ve had chips up there where we looked at the forecast that looks like it was good to go. And then yeah. Then a bit warm front comes through and like a promising winter of weeks on end of good climbing can, can change overnight to basically a miserable soggy mess when you can’t even leave the car.

But that’s what really makes it really, really, really rewarding, I guess. And so was this sort of progression from Bristol to Scotland then out to the Alps and then onto some of your bigger worldwide [00:07:00] expeditions? Yeah, I mean I think, I think the thing was, is you know, I, it was a, it was it was a very steep learning curve and I mean, I left school at 16.

I was academically, I was terrible. You know, I was I hated school. And you know, I think, you know, I didn’t really get any GCSE or anything like that, and I certainly didn’t want to do a levels. And yeah, and I just wanted to go climbing and I knew from a very young age, what I wanted to do. And I remember talking to my dad about it and go, and he’s like, son, what do you want to be when you’re older?

I’m like, I want to be a climber. And he’s like, Hmm.

Was it on your cats?

The escape thing where it goes, you’d be really good as like a hotel manager or a bank or something. Just like all these rogue professions, mountain climber was definitely not there. I scrolled and scrolled and scrolled and it wasn’t on that. It wasn’t on that. So So I had to kind of like, you know find my own way with that.

[00:08:00] And I was very fortunate to get some really good sponsors, a young age who, you know, the majority of which I’m, I’m still with NEI. And that’s like a little family thing. For me it feels like my family and my sponsors because yeah, they’ve been with me from my whole journey. And yeah, it just seemed like the natural progression to go from rock to scotch when wouldn’t enter the Alps.

But then, yeah, I mean, I did my first winter season in the outs. I’d never, you know, I, I never had the benefit of doing like sort of ski trips at school. And then my parents never sent me on those. So that’s sort of 16. I went to the Alps and like, yeah, I lived in a in a two-person apartment and we had 14 of us in there.

It was absolutely gross. And you know, we were lying all lying on mattresses and, you know, there was drugs, alcohol, sex, rock, and roll, but I [00:09:00] wasn’t involved in any of that. Unfortunately I would literally just basically have my earplugs in. I would get up first thing in the morning and I skied every single day of that winter to try to teach myself.

And and at that point, It wasn’t to go skiing to be like a free rider or something like that. It was like literally to give me the access into the maintenance because obviously in the Alps, you know, when you go and do some winter albinism, the last thing you want to be doing snow sharing.

I mean, no one wants to snowshoe. I mean, that’s misery. And yeah, so the only access to get into the routes that I really wanted to go and do in winter, the Alps was by ski. And obviously I couldn’t ski at that point. So I was like, well, I’ve get into the lens of ski. And then I need to learn to ski them with a massive pack on we went through some craziness of skiing and climbing boots, which is a complete disaster because, you know you know, you don’t have any sort of flight, you know, front flax, the boots are obviously much, much lower than a ski [00:10:00] boot.

But you know, but we were doing it and we were like combating all the way down. After doing big routes in, in winter light, you know, stacking it every single term with huge packs on your mate having to drag you out of the snow because you couldn’t get up yourself, you know, because you’d fall over so much.

But yeah, and, and, and it was, it was pretty grim living to be honest with you in this apartment. But it really kind of taught me yeah, it, it taught me a lot and And then the following winter wasn’t much better. I mean, I lived in a gallery in Chamonix and I was an, I remember vividly sort of like, you know, I was, I was, I was picking off my camping stone from the garage and I was sleeping under these plastic garden furniture freezing my ass off.

And I remember just thinking this, this is grim, you know, this is actually done, but actually it also sets you up for bivouacs and and it brings that sort of like, you know, sort of I guess a little bit of toughness and you kind of learn to suffer a little [00:11:00] bit, but I learned to suffer in a garage as opposed to on the main stage at that stage, but then it then went forward into the main thing.

I always revert myself back to that cold, miserable minus 30 winter in the garage, on the concrete floor. Yeah, so, no, I mean, yeah, so, so the album is definitely. Something where I kind of took my rock climbing the UK and my Scottish winter climbing in the UK to the Alps. And and to be brutally honest, I mean, the Alps can be hard.

That big day is a big maintains, but in terms of the actual learning and in terms of a venue that really makes you a really good Mountaineer it’s Scotland, because in Scotland, you go out in bad weather, you have to navigate, you’re often wet and cold as opposed to dry cold, which is a lot more easy to manage in the Alps and the Alps.

You generally only go out if there’s blue skies and and Scotland meets you [00:12:00] hard. And I find that previous, you know, that since then rather before a big trip. Well, I’d go on an expedition. I’d always much preferred to spend a period of the preparation in Scotland over the Alps, because it just brings that hardness back and, you know, the walk-ins along you carrying heavy packs, you know, you’ve got to deal with some really sort of inclement weather.

And and I, I don’t think that’s why grace climbers have done so well in the greater ranges over the years because yeah, our, our sort of place where we learn to, or it’s just hard. Yeah. I think when you’re sort of saying that I remember living when I was living in the Alps and came back and as you say, the dry code is completely different to the sort of British code.

I’d always find you go out minus 10 in a t-shirt in the Alps. You lovely. And then you come back and it’d be 12 degrees here. You would be wrapped up freezing cold. It’s [00:13:00] just like that wet wind chill that gets you every time. And in Scotland, living in Scotland, I mean, the weather is just erratic. Yeah.

Yeah. And I, and I did, and I did you know, I could winters in my van in Scotland as well. I mean, Yvonne, I mean, I’ve got a, quite a nice fun night. But but then I had this really sort of rough farm that was just ply lined inside. Didn’t have any heaters. So then, you know, coming back after a big day in the head in Scotland, all your gear, like soaking wet, your ropes got paying and just trying to dry your kits out with the engine on, and then turn the engine off at night and you wake up prison cold.

You put your wet boots back on, you do climbing again, but your ropes are aware your gloves having dry day. Oh, yeah. What was I doing? I mean, it wasn’t, it wasn’t much fun. I mean, it’s like, it’s tight. It’s definitely that whole like type two fun. Yeah. We, we had liver Livia smoker on a couple of episodes back and she was talking about type two fun and how it’s [00:14:00] definitely the best.

It’s where the best stories come from. Yeah. They are. I mean, you know, I mean, I think with albinism, it’s always that, I mean, you’re always, you’re very rarely going, oh, this is sweet. You know, you’re, you’re more going, this is measured. What the hell am I doing? You know, I could be, I could be on some like beautiful sunny, like beach or like some chilled sea cliff climbing or whatever.

But yeah, like, you know, albinism is just hard. It’s not glamorous. You know, it’s But it is incredibly rewarding when you get dying. And and also it’s one of those things where I find you. Yeah, you just literally are never fully kind of over it either because of the fact that, you know, you have this drive to you know, know what’s running next corner, [00:15:00] for example, if you’re kind of doing like a new route, which is really what I’m about, you know, I really enjoy doing, you know, first the sentence because of that whole thing of, yeah.

The unknowing, if you like. Yeah. It’s that sort of fear of, you know, once it’s been done, you know, that the fear factor has gone, it’s completely different, you know, I mean, you know, going repeating routes Is completely different to opening new reads for sure. Because, you know like you say that whole element of doubt, isn’t there as you know, it’s possible.

And if you’re, if you’re climbing quite well and essentially know the people who’ve done that, you’re like, well, I can climb them and the conditions are as good, or if not better, I can totally do this, you know? And and it takes a little bit of the edge out of it. For me, I’m honest. Whereas you know, more recently, I guess I’ve much preferred to, I’ve got a weather window, obviously it’s been very different this year because this whole pandemic, we’re not gonna have to [00:16:00] travel, but in normal years when you know, I’m, I’m, I’m winter climbing.

Yeah. I you know, if I have a weather window, I’d much prefer to go and fail on something new as opposed to go and repeat something that is being climbed. By other people it’s just a much different vibe. And yeah, I, you know, and along with sort of various number of partners, I’ve opened up, you know, many new routes in the mines ins across the world.

And and it’s it’s a really rewarding experience that’s for sure. I think it was Tana who, who sort of said like when he opens up new couloirs or anything, or go somewhere else, as soon as he knows someone has already done that, it just takes all the fun and all the excitement out of it. Is that the sort of feeling you get from opening up new routes.

Definitely. And also, I think the thing is when I’m opening up new routes and I’ve never placed a pole in my life, I mean, there’s [00:17:00] nothing wrong with bolts in the right places and the right context. So for sport climbing, bolts, faulted lines. Awesome. What, after all that I sport climb as well, but in the main scenes I never ever take a Baltic Chet.

You know people do. And I think Brenda Messner was the first person to say, it’s like, you know, it’s, it’s murdering the impossible, you know, when you place a bowl in the mountains, because I’m, I’m, I’m definitely a big believer. And I think this comes a lot from my ethics, winter climbing in Scotland, is that in Scotland, there are no bolts in the maintenance, you know, there’s no fixed anchors.

You know, you’re, you’re, you’re climbing and you’re searching for natural protections. You have your cams, you have your wires. You might have a peg that you can hammer in, but then it gets taken out again. But yeah, so, so, so nothing is actually being left on the mountain. Whereas, you know, if you go and you get to a blank section and then you just get your drill in drill a bowl, it takes that edge out of it.

It [00:18:00] takes that commitment out of it. And also for the, for the, the next person who would come and repeat your route, it then completely takes, takes the edge away because, you know I, I’m a big believer in leaving exactly what you find and then the experience for the next person is going to be close to yours.

You know, I mean, yeah, we we’ve said the new routine once you’ve done it. It takes the element of uncertainty, if it’s possible, how to there for a second essentially, or further down the road, but still, I think the, you know, as long as the experience, the climbing experience and how you protect the climb to make it safe and how you sort of work out how you’re going to get off the routes safely.

You know, if that is still the same as the first person that wasn’t, that’s open it’s, it’s still really, really cool. And and yeah, I think. Far too [00:19:00] many bolts in the maintains placed when they really don’t need to be. You know, I mean, I’ve seen bolts in the mumble Massif range placed next to like perfect crack lines, how you can place a cam and then the second person up can take it out and you’d leave nothing there, but someone’s gone with a drill and guns and put a bolt in.

But again, I think that comes a lot from, you know, our UK ethics of climbing and the ethics in the UK of climbing is, is very real. And, you know, and if you were to basically go against that, I mean, there’s enough people who would properly call you out on it. And and yeah, and for me, it, it, it it’s what keeps the style of climbing really really special.

It’s the whole sort of what do you call it? It’s the sort of slogan for Patagonia, or just leave any footsteps and where I can split train this one. What’s this one it’s slightly leave only [00:20:00] footsteps and take any memories or something on those lines. I mean yeah. It’s yeah, I mean, I’ve been fortunate to be with for almost 25 years now.

So they were one of my first sponsors. And they’ve been, like I said earlier, they’re like a family to me. I work really closely with those guys you know, from the, the, the, the office in Europe to also the people in Ventura in in California as well. And and as an ambassador for Patagonia.

Yeah. I mean, it’s it’s not just about the climbing, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s also about about how you conduct yourself and then your community and You know, I mean, you know, we’re not all activists, but then also at the same time, I think it’s really important for them that you have a passion and you really care about, you know, where you’re at and want to protect those places.

And and also from a, you know from that sort of thing as well, I I’m I’m involved with the product testing. So we get a lot of products that is kind of quite bizarre. [00:21:00] And then they give it to the ambassadors and we take it away and we go, must be, we’re not sure about that. And also that would go back to the forge and they’ll, they’ll adjust it and come back and then eventually it might go to production or it might not.

And, and that whole process of working part again is really, really poor. Like really enjoy that. You know, it’s another aspect of, you know using your experience in the main but other people can then benefit from when it comes from a clothing system point of view or a pack or sleeping bag or something like that.

Your, one of your big trips was in Alaska. What was this sort of purpose behind this trip? Well, I guess it kind of depends. It’s when you mean I’ve been to Alaska many times. But Alaska generally for me is a great place for albinism. I mean, there’s a number of reasons. It’s kind of like, I think someone used to CLO like fast food albinism, you know, you can literally go that, you know, you don’t really need to worry about climatization unless you’re climbing on.

Well, really like [00:22:00] Foraker hunter or Denali, you know, all the other maintains are pretty low altitude, so you can just go and you can just go climbing and gotta to worry about. Yeah. Any altitude issues like you do if you go to the Himalayas, for example and it’s just an amazing venue. I mean, you can literally, you know, the flow, you know, B B be taken in on a on a Bush plane within like three days of leaving the UK and you get dropped in the middle of nowhere and you own that place for yeah.

As long as you want to be a month, five weeks, whatever. And then very stunning, they really lend themselves to climbing. And yeah, and like I said, with the access of the of the Bush plane, it kind of makes things really easy to get in and out and also to go and explore different zones. So if you get dropped in into one, one section of the range and the conditions are very [00:23:00] bad when, I mean conditions, I mean, People might not sort of fully understand when I say conditions is that obviously what we need when we mix climbing is we don’t want too much snow because everything will be buried.

And you just spend forever kind of like digging out everything. We want a form of consolidation in the snowpack from an avalanche point of view something that’s really, really important to make things safe. And also we need to have that sort of melt, freeze buildup on the maintain faces.

So we get that. That ice to form. And and that’s called , it’s kind of a type of ice that you get on the main things that is like very white and it sticks to like rock and it it’s really a very different sort of ice to like a cascade ice. You imagine a cascade ice is very brittle. It shutters when you place an ice ax into it, but our minds in mind tonight is very chewy.

That’s a way of [00:24:00] describing it. And when your ax is going to tonight, it feels absolutely bombed. It doesn’t feel like it’s going to rip through. It doesn’t feel like if it was very, very, very secure. And you know, and, and, but that is also quite a femoral. So therefore, you know, as I said, you need a period of melt freeze for, for that to actually form.

So you need storms, you need high temperatures to melt it. You need to rephrase, you need another storm and you just need that process to keep kicking in and to get these likes sort of these, these ribbons of ice that you see on the maintains that people can then go and they can go and climb up. And obviously the thing with mixed climbing is then linking these ribbons into, into rock sections and then back onto the ice.

And then so that we’re using your rock scales and using your mixed climbing skills. So yeah, so, so that’s the really cool things that, so if the maintenance is not in condition in one, in one zone, because the Alaska range is massive [00:25:00] you can literally, yeah. You know, get on the phone to Paul Roderick, who is our pilot in in Alaska, from tat an awesome guy who will literally yeah.

Basically fly in, pick you up and then take you to a different zone. As I said, because it’s such a huge place, you know, the conditions definitely Berry from one place to another. So I think from a yeah, from, you know, from that point of view, it’s an amazing place to go climbing. You have a lot of possibilities and they’re just like, they’re just incredible maintenance.

They’re like incredible maintenance, you know, like beautiful granite spires and yeah. Sort of interlinked with these like sort of like dripping ribbons of ice. It’s it’s an, it’s an amazing place to climb and you don’t have to worry about altitude. And, and for me, that is one thing. Where, you know, I don’t mind altitude I’m okay.

Altitude. But when you start introducing altitude into the, into the mix, the naturally the [00:26:00] style of how you’re going to climb, or the technicality of how you’re going to climb goes down, because, you know, if you’re climbing at 8,000 meters it’s hard work and it’s more like high altitude walking. I find that quite boring.

If I’m honest, you know, I want to be climbing. I don’t want to be walking in snow. And you know, so for me, if I can find a main maintain that is maybe, I don’t know, six and a half thousand meters maximum. But the actual relief of the face is plus a thousand meters to 2000 meters. Then it means you can climb.

On a really big mixing maintain, but without the altitude issues, but because of that, you can climb really hard technical routes. And that is where I’m, I find things like really interesting. And, and it comes down to that whole thing as well is, you know, [00:27:00] I, I, I like to go to these places where no one’s been, and I mean, I’d hate to be involved in these things where they’re like, I’m only saw pictures of Everest base camp, but recently, I mean, it looked horrific.

I mean, base camp was like two miles long. I mean, you know, and then there’s, there’s, there’s, there’s ropes everywhere that of people that’s footsteps. And yeah, that’s, that’s not for me. That’s not saying it’s not for everyone. And, and everyone should find their own you know, what they find acceptable and the style that they wish to climb in.

And and, and also for me, you know, the style I like to climb at Alpine style. In the mind scenes which I guess up until a while ago, it was quite a modern way of thinking. You know, it used to be years, years ago, they didn’t have this capsule style. So you fixed ropes and you put a camp and then you fixed ropes and you put a camera on and you might come back down the ropes of base camp and recover it.

And you go back up the ropes back, down and back up. But the problem with that obviously is it takes a lot of time. You’re in the danger zone for quite a long period of time. [00:28:00] If there is objective danger what I mean by that is, you know, if they’re avalanche prone slopes, or if there are ice cliffs looming above you, that you don’t want to be hanging around that for long periods of time.

But also I think from a commitment side of things as well, you know, again, I think it was mark Twain, who said, you know, you, you have that commitment to the goal. You know, you have that connection to the grind when there are fixed ropes, you’ve never left the grind. Right. So. I know exactly what it means, you know, and it just takes that level of yeah.

Of edge and, you know being completely off the leash out of it. And Alpine style climbing is basically when it’s just you and your mate at the bottom, got a rucksack. Each you’ve got two ropes. You might have a third rope as a tagline. So you can hold a rucksack between the two of you. But literally you’re just swinging leads, swinging [00:29:00] leads all the way up the mountain, and you’re not having any connections to the grind and you’re not fixing any, any ropes.

And that is for me, like, you know, the way I like to climb because it’s, it feels very comforting. It feels very fluid because you’re always moving. But then also at the same time, there is an element of that that makes it slightly more dangerous, I guess, because you know, things go wrong. Yeah.

You know, you’ve only got two ropes to get down, as opposed to just wrapping down hundreds of meters of fixed rope. But but you just work that I, if it goes wrong, have there been moments where you have come into trouble climbing? Yeah, I think, you know yeah. Yeah. I have I’ve had some, some you know, and I’m not going to lie.

I’ve lost a lot of friends to the maintenance like close friends, you know, and I’m not as difficult. And and yeah, I mean, we all have our, we all have our moments, but but, [00:30:00] but I kind of do see how I climb as it’s very calculated. I’m not reckless. I really plan everything from equipment to line, to the sense to what you’re reading to, you know, all those important things that will keep you going.

And and I think it’s, you know, and it also comes down to the fact of being in those places with the right people as well. And I’ve got like a core group of people that I’ll go on expedition with to climbing the mountains only a very small handful of people. But. It takes a long time to build that rapport, you know, and, you know, with a lot of my mates that we climb, we don’t even need to have a discussion.

You know, it’s, you know, you have that feeling through the rope. If you make them anxious about something, or maybe if you’re a bank it’s just about something. Or if you think we’re [00:31:00] pushing a bit deep here, we might need to take a step back and descend or do you know what, maybe we’re not pushing hard enough or some amount of where this is just like, kind of crack on, you know, you know, there’s something going on, but we just being using the bar vibe, you know, we’re gonna need to step this thing up, you know?

So it’s, it, partners are very, very important. And you know, a good partner will take you to the edge and hope to pull you back again. And you know, and but yeah, I mean, I think to be honest with you, you know, Albinism is a dangerous sport. And there’s always going to be an element of danger.

You never, ever going to take that away. But then also that is something that makes it as as rewarding as what it is. I accept the risks I’ve as I said, I’ve, I’ve gone through that process of losing friends to the main scenes. I know the damage that, that also leaves behind to loved ones. But yeah, it’s, it’s a very it’s a very [00:32:00] crazy thing.

I mean, you know, I’m, I’ve, you know, I’ve done it all my life. I’m, I’m sucked in, you know, I, I feel now that, you know, I’m still quite lucky to be here because I look back at times in my twenties and early thirties where yeah, I was pretty loose at times. And as you get older, you obviously become more experienced and.

A bit more risk averse and try to make the right decisions or try to be less reckless in terms of your route choice. So now if I’m doing it during a trip, you know, it, it really is a thing where we’re like, well, clearly, you know, because we have hard friends that haven’t come back, you know, you do look at the line to make sure objectively that it’s safe, you know, and maybe if it’s not safe, then you’ll just go, do you know what, mate, let’s look at this mountain instead, Surrey, there’s lots of mountains and, you know, I’d hate to being hit on the head by something, you know, or something like that.

So yeah, but it’s, you know, I mean but I think, you know, I think it can be a bit of a bad rap sometimes in terms of [00:33:00] people thinking that it’s, it’s, it’s really dangerous. And I think a lot of it, if I’m honest as well, right. I mean, we see it in the press sometimes on the news about Everest, the light, it gets very much bad press and glorified from that side of things.

But climbers who are in the signs, maybe egotistical, but climates who are really pushing hard in the mountains. There are few accidents because they are very in tuned to what they’re doing and they’re talented. It’s the people who are less experienced that can put a vibrant cross that what we’re doing is, is dangerous, even though it is dangerous, but we just manage, manage the risks better.

Yeah. I think, you know, people listening might sort of question about like, you know, what drives you to risk your life for doing this? But as you say, the experience of [00:34:00] professionals. It’s very, I mean, I imagine like most are completely control, control freaks in their environment. They know exactly the sort of snow pack they’d sort of dig away at it.

And it’s when you say a sort of bad rap, it’s the people, you know, Jay blogs from down the road can pay a hundred thousand to go and climb Mount Everest, having never climbed before. And so he pays a hundred thousand and he can just go up with all the oxygen and they basically sort of force him up, but the sort of, and he’s never climbed, but he just sort of wants to climb Mount Everest because it’s the coolest mountain in the world.

And so I sort of imagined that your, what you do is more of a sort of sense of discovery. It’s a sense of fulfillment and you are very controlled in what you do. You can’t always. Things will always happen, but in terms of what you do, it’s always [00:35:00] about minimizing risk. Exactly. And I think for sure, you know, I mean, I would never you know, I can’t compare myself to you know, these people paying all this money to go and do the big mines in the Himalayas, you know, guided, I mean, it’s complete, it’s a completely different thing.

If you were to put those people in the environments that we’re climbing in, I mean, they wouldn’t be able to pull a move off the grain. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it’s a very, very different thing and it’s and it does frustrate me sometimes where people go like, yeah. You know, I mentioned it, I do all this and this and this.

You’re like, mm it’s a completely different ball game. It’s completely different, you know? And yeah, so I think, but I think, you know, it’s I think you’re right. I mean, it, yeah, it is, it is just a very calculated thing, but I guess, yeah, I am a control freak. I mean, it’s funny, you know, like I see what I’m doing is [00:36:00] safe.

I hate flying. I hate flying. I, I, I get really scared flying, ridiculous, you know, and everyone’s like looking at me, you know, but I mean, I hate flying because I’m not in control. You know, I’d much rather have a go myself upfront as opposed to rely on someone else, right. You’re in a tree achieve out of your control.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the mindset, you know, I feel that I have a huge element of control with me and also with, with the experience of my partner as well, like they gel together, you know? And yeah. And so yeah, I, yes. From that side of things, you know, I am but then also it, you know you know, in, in, in having to, in, in, in, in committing my life to climbing as well yeah, it, it can, it can have certainly sort of some sort of negative effects on other aspects of your life as well in terms of relationships and all that stuff down the road, because it just makes lots of stuff quite hard because you’re just so focused and driven in [00:37:00] terms of what you’re doing.

So, yeah, it was quite, it, it can be, it can be, it’s a, it’s an amazing thing to be able to do, but it can also then, you know, be. Not so positive and other aspects was Ben Sanders. He sort of described it as sort of place to having like cocaine a drug problem. It’s sort of so addictive, but you don’t really know what it’s like.

It’s, you know, has all the capacity to burn all your money. It has to ruin every relationship, but there’s something about living life on the edge or doing something you love, like what you do that has that sort of capacity, which people can’t really understand exactly. I mean, it’s an absolute passion and and if I didn’t call him, I mean, I look at people and go, if you climb, what, what, what did you do?

Like, you know, what do you do in your life? You know? And obviously there’s much more of the things in climbing. But for me in my life, it’s [00:38:00] kind of. The be all and end all. And it always has been all my life. And you know, I’ve missed out probably on a lot of core stuff and a lot of cool experiences because of the fact that I’m so driven and passionate about the single thing.

But I think that is where also being like an orang climber. Who’s actually really quite challenging, quite interesting because you know, I’m not just a winter climber. I’m not just a rock climber. I’m at all combined. And that’s also very cool because you also get to like move with the seasons, you know?

So like when, when the Bach seasons over, I’m not pining because I’ve got to wait the whole winter to go rock climbing again. You know, I’ve got to travel to places to do that instead or whatever is that right? Okay. Winter’s on. And now I’ve got my skis on, I’m going to go winter climbing. And then when, when, when the winter seasons over, why I’m back onto what climbing and bouldering and.

Tried climbing and doing trips away doing that instead. And [00:39:00] I think having, you know, I think if I was just focused on one aspect of climbing, let’s just say I was just a Boulder. You know, I think it would feel less less jeez at my time less. But because I’m trying to do everything, it’s like a full time commitment, you know?

And, and obviously the thing with that as well is that from a trading point of view, it makes things very difficult because all the training for each aspect is also very, very different. You know, just because you’re maybe doing individual like sport climbing, well, It doesn’t mean you’re going to transfer that fitness into the maintenance.

Well, because you’re in the mind scenes, you know, you need a lot more cardio work. Whereas when you’re a sport climbing, you don’t see don’t really do any much or much cardio. It’s all just weight management stuff, but then yeah. Then you’d go into the winter season and you can’t even get to the mindset because you’re knackered, but your fingers are like strong as hell, you know?

And you know, and [00:40:00] you’re climbing really well and you’re really lean. But so yeah, the transfer from each different aspect of climbing can be a nightmare. And that for me is one thing that I really, you know, suffered because I’m, I’m on this thing at the moment. I just really want to climb like top-end in all aspects and I can be found I do more or less anyway, but I’ve set myself these goals in terms of what I want to do with that.

And So at the moment I’m climbing quite well, but yeah, if I was to then go straight back into the mountains now, You know, I’ll be climbing well, but yeah, I would be like suffering big time, you know, from a cardio point of view. But the good thing is that obviously that comes back because I have a high base because I’ve done it all my life, but it just means that just means adapting.

And and yeah, and like for my expeditions next year, you know, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll at least have a winter to spring board into an expedition. And so you’re going a bit more [00:41:00] sort, the ski and 19 fitness, as opposed to just what fitness is, what I’m doing at the moment, because the training that goes into your expedition is phenomenal in terms of your diet, because you from, from sort of five, 10 years ago, your, you sort of moved from diet to diet, and now you’re a much more sort of plant-based.

Have you sort of found the sort of transfer from a normal everyday diet to the more plant-based sports focused. Yeah. I mean I mean, I find food fascinating and all of that, that goes with it. So yeah, I mean, I was B I was vegetarian for many, many years, 20 years, and then the last six years I’ve been vegan.

And and the reason I chose to be vegan was for a number of reasons from an environmental point of view my carbon footprint was pretty big because of the fact that I was flying on expeditions and [00:42:00] trying driver a van, you know, and all that sort of stuff. So I was trying to like curb my carbon footprint.

So I try and do the right thing from, from that side of things, but also from animal welfare point of view as well. I love animals. Dogs, especially love dogs. I, I became vegan provision, but also I really wanted to kind of like see how I could do it from a yeah, from a health performance side of things as well.

And I’ve tried to do it the right way. I mean, I, I supplements a lot like. Vitamin D B12. I take some beats aniline, which is stuff that you get from meat normally, which kind of helps and sort of car insurance type stuff. And I, I’m really kind of careful with the amounts diets. Although at the moment I’m kind of like, because of this phase of training I’m in, at the moment, which is come that base phase where you just basically build muscle.

I literally been like in sort of this, this sort of calorie calorie surplus for the whole winter. And [00:43:00] then I’m climbing heavy at the moment because of muscle mass, but then as the season goes on, want to get closer to my work projects, then I’ll start to cut a little bit and then I’ll go in sort of closer color calorie deficit and just lose a little bit to then send and then come back up then.

So says like sort of fighting weight again. But I, I, you know, But I I’ve also done it wrong as well, you know? I mean, I like, I feel a lot better and stronger now eating as opposed to when I was just always on, about trying to stay light. I mean, I’m 77 kg at the moment. I mean, last year at this time I was like 71.

And I know I can get my weight back down to lot. It’s not level just by losing muscle mass which I probably will do for a project later in the autumn. But then obviously it’s a fine line between cutting and being liked and sending it’s a fine line between [00:44:00] that and going too far down into like potentially having like an eating disorder because climbing, you know, climbing whether people like it or not is, is It’s a strength to weight ratio sport.

If you’re lighter, you’re column harder. I mean, I’m sorry. It’s how it works, you know? But then you have to make sure that, you know, that you see keep that element of of robustness I would say. And and I got injured. I, I blew an aid to pulley and my finger when I was going really, really well last year like a bad rupture.

And I think it was because I was so low in terms of sort of calories that my tendons are probably getting weaker. And I think I probably blew my tendon because of, because of my diet, as opposed to doing anything wrong. So so yeah, so all of that, I find quite fascinating. And again, you know, if you were to then put that context into optimism yeah.

You need to eat loads because, you know, it’s, it’s more, you know, I mean, there’s no point [00:45:00] in being. Really skinny and then for a big trip to the mountains, because you’ll have no reserve. But then yeah, you don’t really want that reserve when you’re trying to do perform a drop climbing. So it’s you know, but I, I also find very fascinating how your body adapts and how you can change your body.

I mean, my body is very responsive to training, I guess, into, and so what I eat, I know if I be in badly, I hate myself for it. And I just feel terrible. Or I know if I’ve been eating the right things and well, and there’s a very good book actually called thrive which is Brendan. Greasier something like that.

I think his name is Brendan Breezer, who was a triathlete and he did a, and he’s a vegan. He did a cookbook it’s called thrive. I think it’s called energy, something, tribe, energy living or something like that. And energy performance. And that’s a very good cookbook. And I use that quite a lot for cooking because he comes at it from a marketing [00:46:00] point of view in terms of what vegans actually need to try to keep obviously performance.

But it can be a challenge. I mean, you know, I’m in my van at the moment all the time and trying to cook, you know, I do cook well, I eat really well and I am very particular. But you know, it’s not always so easy on like two hope.

Well, Matt, it’s been absolutely amazing sort of hearing about all the stuff you’ve been getting up to. There’s a part of the share where we asked the same five questions to each guest each week with the first being on your trips or expedition, what’s the one thing that you always, what sort of gadget do you always take with you?

It has to be my music. It’s gotta be my I love music. So I’d always need my, my AirPod probably it’d be my AirPods for my music and obviously I need my phone as well [00:47:00] for that. Downloaded music. I’ve done that before I go on an expedition, had all my tunes lined up. Flew onto somewhere and I’m like, I’m not downloading anything and has no views.

That was brutal. Yeah, no, I mean, I love the music. I love my I’m very, you know, in terms of genres, I love my hip hop, 11 drum and bass. Yeah, I, if you missed the, I said at the moment, I’m, I’m less than a lots of Drake. And yeah, so basically a lot of UK sort of like little of UK hip hop as well, I’m really into the moment, you know, sort of gangster rap. I kind of like, I call it the pipeline, like poked calling, quite motivating.

And but occasionally I do go back, I revert back to my old scores or rage against the machine and so presale and stuff like that, you know? But I love like chasing status and you know, if I want a bit of dance a bit dead, my sometimes stuff like that, you know? But yeah, no, I. So music is my motivation man, for sure.

And if I’m training, I don’t have music. I may as well not train. Yeah, it’s a, it’s a [00:48:00] big thing. It’s a big part of my life actually. Yeah. I’m ruining my ears. I’m sure that, what about your favorite adventure or travel book? My adventure my favorite book is pretty easy. I’m not a great reader to be fair.

But there’s one book that I’ve had as my motivational Bible for years. And there’s a climber American climber called Mark’s whites, who from you know, I’ve met mark and I don’t have heroes, but he’s very motivating to me. He’s close to one for me. And he has a book called kiss or kill. And it’s yeah, it’s Kissel kale, the story of a serial climber and he’s an American alpinists he gave up climbing years ago, but his writing and his style is incredibly motivating and I see very much parallels in his life to [00:49:00] my life.

And I have to say, and in terms of reading that book over and over again, it’s definitely helped me from a life journey point of view as well. So yeah, read that book. It’s really, really cool. Why are, why are these adventures important to you? Adventure is important to me because I mean, there’s a number of reasons.

It’s, it’s obviously there’s the, the satisfaction that you get from adventure and the unknown. And I think that is something that I think everyone should experience in their lives, but also from a human element as well from the the friendships that you build with people in these environments.

And and it definitely gives you a, a very close bond with people that you go climbing with. And it doesn’t have to be an epic trip. It doesn’t have to be this epic storm or whatever for you to kind of have this sort of like this bond. It can just be a subtle experience. It can be just a [00:50:00] sunrise.

It can be a bit of a whack. It can be a pitch of climbing that was the most memorable thing ever, or it can be, you know, getting up a Boulder problem in the wet where you’re both properly going for it and giving each other loads of like motivation and got the tunes going and. It’s those things that I think is, is what’s really important.

What about this sort of favorite adventure quote? I have got one, but I’m trying to think about it and I and actually it’s it’s it’s it’s actually a mark Twain quote and I wish I could flip the phone up and find it, but I can’t, but it’s along the lines of I’m going to get this so wrong, but it’s along the lines of like it would be very

it would be very upsetting if you basically didn’t like to be very upset and they didn’t basically go for [00:51:00] what you really dream. About doing and then being alive to kind of look back and knowing that you never did. If that makes sense, that’s not the exact quote, but it’s along those lines, it’s the idea of regret what-if exactly.

And, and I have in my life, like, no I I’ve always had no no regret and and I think, you know, I made the decisions that I’ve made for the right reason at the right time. And and, and, and I think it’s also kind of a big, you know, with that quote is a very much a thing of, you know, making sure you do take those opportunities when they arise, if they feel like you should.

And Because, yeah. I mean, regret would be a horrible thing. So yeah, you’ve got to charge. Yeah, I think I remember [00:52:00] seeing some horrifics stat of people in like an old people’s home and regrets that they had. And usually it’s always, I wish I had gone for this or gone for that. It’s always the things they didn’t do rather than the things they did do.

Yeah, exactly. And I think that’s when we can all learn from that, you know? And and I think particularly with this whole last year that everyone’s had has been really, really tough. I think a lot of people have probably been given that kick up the ass that they need to go. Do you know what actually.

Wow. That’s a year that’s gone so quick. I need to, I need to get on with this, you know, and I need to take all these opportunities that are coming to me to make my life more fulfilling and to yeah, and, and to not be that person who turns down opportunity because they feel they should when actually deep down is something that they really [00:53:00] want.

Yeah. I agree with that. I think I imagine a lot of people were sort of, what’s the word sort of walking like zombies day-to-day in every teen and then suddenly the pandemic hit and they were like, whoa, what just happened? What it, five, 10, 20 years just go. Been doing the same thing. Exactly. People listening are always keen to travel and go on these sort of grand expeditions.

What’s the one thing you would recommend for people wanting to get started and what you do, I think to to find a mentor to be inspired by, by someone in particular that you can that you can follow to yeah, just to kind of give you and help you with that ambition. I think certainly it’s important particularly when the mountains are involved to become [00:54:00] proficient.

In the main sense to not become a liability. I mean, I’ve never caught a rescue helicopter in my life. Yeah, I’ve known some people who’ve called 20 because of the, probably because of that decisions, you know? And so I think, you know, I would say if you want to get into it, I mean, there’s loads of people out there.

I mean, I’m also a mountain guide. I’m like MJ mountain guide. So I also take people climbing and skiing and you know yeah. And mountain airing. So I would say, you know, maybe invest in some time with a guide or with an instructor to go, to learn the appropriate techniques, to kind of make yourself feel more comfortable in the environment.

And also being comfortable in an environment also means also just putting yourself in that environment. I mean, it’s even, I now, even I’ve been in the mountains all my life, if I’ve been out of them for a while, it it’ll take me a couple of trips back into them to kind of feel completely [00:55:00] in tune. So again, you know, if you’re going to go and do this, like once a year, you know, and go to the Alps, maybe go Scotland first for like a couple of weekends, just get yourself in the vibe and in tune with the mountains.

So you can feel them and know what’s going on. As opposed to just go there and just jump into something. But I certainly think, you know, getting experience with good people is a real game changer. And yeah, and, and there’s also like the mastermind sensors in the UK, like Plaza, Brennan, Glenmore lodge.

They do loads of courses. If you don’t want to hire a private guide to do that, you can join a bigger group, which also then obviously is great because you also meet like-minded people who also wants to go and do the same things as you. And there are some charities that actually pay for people to actually go and do these things as well.

You can find them online and you can find them through the positive on a website. Yeah. You know, young people who want to go to the [00:56:00] Alps, but one that experience and yeah, there’s a charity that will help fund those trips and then guides. And then there’s also, that’s one thing is that, you know, it’s, it’s finding your crew as well.

That’s really important. And the people that you want to be that you want to be doing this with people that you’re happy to share time and space with Because, yeah. I mean, I would never do a trip with someone who wasn’t close to me because as I said, the human element of climbing is just as important as the physical one.

So yeah. So basically go and get loads of experience from the right people. Very nice. Finally, what are you doing now and how can people follow your adventures in the future? Well now I am I’m sort of in the UK at the moment for obvious reasons. But so yeah, I’m, I’m basically focused on some what projects throughout the summer, some track plumbing projects and some support client projects, but a bouldering.

And then I’ll then, [00:57:00] you know, wait until the winter again and then get back into the main centers and help aneurysm and. And all that stuff went to climbing again when the season comes rained. And then we’re planning an expedition for next year. So the Himalayas there’s ability, the best way to to follow me is probably through my Instagram.

I have a website which I updates like once a year. But yeah, probably for like a live feed, if you like, of, of what’s going on and where I put all my media, it’s probably through Instagram. And that’s just much underscore how clicker I’m sure you can link me in on that one. And yeah, so that’s probably the best way of Yeah, of keeping in touch and also you know, in normal years I do lecture circuits as well.

And yeah, and I do lectures, we do films at film festivals. So yeah, you can always say I’d love for, you know, sort of people are always interested. I like to think I’m an approachable guy. So if you ever see me at any of these film festivals or or [00:58:00] come and see my lectures yeah, come and say hi and or drop me a, or drop me a DM.

And if I can help in any way I can with any questions that people may have then yeah, I’ll do my best. I’m not, I’m not, I probably won’t get back straight away because my admin is shocking. I mean, I literally struggled to sort of apply to about one email a day. But but I will get back to you.

Believe me, I will get back. Well, Matt, it’s been an absolute pleasure listening to your stories and can’t thank you enough for coming on. Your Instagram and website will be in the description below and yeah, it’s just been fascinating. Hearing all about it all, mate. Well, thanks for having me on and yeah, I look forward to hearing hearing the rest of your, of your podcast series.

You’re doing a great job. That is it for today. Thank you so much for watching and I hope you got something out of it. If you did hit that like button and subscribe, if you haven’t already, and I will see you in the next video.

Eva Zu Beck

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Eva Zu Beck (solo traveller & youtuber)

On today’s episode, Eva Zu Beck shares her experience of travelling around Pakistan and how her own fear actually helped her embrace fear and become the bravest person she knew. On the Modern Adventurer Podcast, we talk about all her adventures around the world. Yemen and Pakistan and been stuck when the Pandemic hit the world and how she coped.

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Transcript of our Conversation

Eva Zu Beck

[00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to the modern adventurer podcast coming up, maybe 60 or 70 years old with long braids dressed in a traditional style with a beautiful woven cap. And she’s smiling at me and she’s welcoming me with some bread and some milk. And then there’s her husband. You know, this elderly gentleman, who’s standing there with his like Pakistani pack, all this sort of traditional hat.

And they’re just welcoming me this stranger into their home. They never, they didn’t know me before. I didn’t know them before. And yet here they are standing there with a smile, not speaking a word of English, me, not speaking a word of their language and just expecting me to come in, just come in. You’re our guests come in, take a bite of this bread, take a sip of this milk and stay with us for awhile.

And I think this kind of like. Warmth and hospitality is something that I’ve experienced in so many places. But I think Pakistan was really the place that kind of introduced me to, to that concept, which I think [00:01:00] is quite alien to us in the sort of Western world.

My next guest is Ava. Zubek a YouTuber who has covered a wide range of countries in her time. She let’s say doesn’t quite stick to the travel destinations you see in the brochure. She goes off the beaten track and tell some of the most fantastic stories in the most authentic way from Pakistan to the Yemen, Iraq to Mongolia.

So I am delighted to introduce Ava. Zubek back to the podcast. Thank you so much, really happy to be here. We’re absolutely pleasure. And thank you so much for coming on. Uh, what I absolutely love about your story is I suppose, how you travel to countries, which [00:02:00] some people might question your logic and will probably, they’re not your typical holiday destinations and you tell it in such a authentic and positive manner.

Uh, we’ll get into that. In a minute, but I suppose probably the best place to start for people listening is about you and how you start it. In this sort of world of adventures and travel. Yeah. I mean, obviously sometimes you’re, you know, we’re all very tempted to look at vloggers or filmmakers, whatever you want to call them, content creators, and sort of look at their current stage and be like, Oh, well they must have always done this filmmaking thing.

They must have always done this travel thing. They’ve always been good at it. That’s definitely not my style. Sorry, my story is actually of, of, um, yeah, definitely struggle and new beginnings. So just over three years ago, I was not living this kind of life. Um, I was, uh, working for a startup back in London.

I was married, working very long [00:03:00] hours in the city. Kind of like going through the motions that I think a lot of people find themselves almost like. Locked in, or like shackled to, you know, you graduate university with a good degree, and then you have to go to the city to get a good job and, you know, and good money climb the career ladder and eventually, you know, find a husband or a wife, or, you know, I dunno, have a family do whatever you need to do.

And, uh, that’s kind of your life. Right. And I was definitely on that path. Um, yeah, just over three years ago in London. Until I kind of started questioning why I found it difficult to get out of bed in the morning and why I didn’t have much motivation. To do anything outside of my job and even, you know, doing my job on a daily basis was a bit of a struggle.

I had to find reasons to convince myself why. Um, you know, I was, I, I should live the kind of life that everybody had been telling me to live. And, um, so I sort of questioned myself and of low-key for a little while, until I came to a few sort of very deep, [00:04:00] um, realizations. Um, after asking myself these stuff, questions that actually, maybe this was not the life that I wanted to live.

Maybe I had just kind of fallen for this illusion of success that everybody told me I should aspire to. And the moment I realized that was kind of the moment of truth, where I was like, well, this is clearly not for me. So what should I do about it? I mean, you have limited options in some ways, because you can either keep going and be unhappy maybe for the rest of your life who knows or quit and do something completely new and different and have zero guarantees that it will work out.

Um, so I thought, well, I’m still, I’m still kinda young. But that doesn’t even matter so much, I guess. Like I just don’t really, I can’t picture myself being unhappy for one more month of my life. So I’m in a pretty spontaneous decision. Um, and pretty much actually one morning between 8:00 AM and 10. I am on the [00:05:00] 1st of January, 2018, I did a whole bunch of things that completely changed my life.

And like one moment I quit my job in London. My very nice cushy job. I gave up my apartment in London. I called my family to tell them that I’m going traveling full time. By the way I had no plans as to what I would be doing on those travels just yet. And I booked a one way ticket to Nepal because I thought, where should I go?

I mean, on my sort of solo travels and the pal sounds like a place where I could get some spiritual awakening. So I guess I’ll just go there. You know, I think I’ve seen too many sort of movies about mountains, the Himalayas, and, uh, sort of. Ritual reawakening. So, um, booked those tickets. And a couple of months later, I was actually on my way to Nepal with a camera in hand, um, thinking that I’d like to start documenting my travels, despite the fact that I had no background at all in [00:06:00] filmmaking or logging or anything like that.

But I thought, okay, I’m going to go and travel for a little while. I don’t know how long, I don’t know where. But I’d like to share that story of like a journey into the unknown, um, with people in a creative way. So, um, yeah, kind of on that trip along the way, I started learning how to edit videos from scratch via sort of YouTube university.

Um, I started kind of trying to build out my Instagram didn’t really know what I was doing and, um, yeah, kind of, I wanted to see what I could do with this limited savings that I had from my previous job. Um, and how I can tell sort of. The story of a solo female traveler kind of making her way around the world after quitting her old life in, you know, in London.

So that’s kind of how it all began. And now we’re here three years on and things are kind of working out. No, it’s absolutely amazing. And, uh, for people listening, Ava has [00:07:00] a remarkable way of communicating her story on sort of YouTube and Instagram. So. You were in the pool. How long were you there for?

Nepal was my very first destination. Um, and it was only really to do a sort of Trek to Everest base camp. Mind you, at that point, I hadn’t really stepped foot on like, like in the mountains very much in the vein very long time. I was definitely like full on city girl, you know, like I went to Nepal. With like, uh, PE face powder with NASCAR, with all these things thinking, Oh my God, like, how am I going to look like out on these mountains, I need to make sure that I look great.

And, and then I sort of got to the mountains, got to Nepal. And I was like, well, I can’t, I can’t possibly be bringing all these things with me on the Everest base contract. I have to ditch them, you know? And that was kind of like, I don’t know. I felt like I was. Reborn, almost in some, in some interesting new way.

[00:08:00] And that was like definitely a very transformative, um, kind of cut with my old life. Um, but I think the journey that definitely, um, changed the way that I sort of looked at. My future journey, the way that I looked at the world and the journey that really triggered everything that I do with my content, with the destinations that I traveled to now was the second country I traveled to, which was Pakistan.

So this is, um, one of the, sort of less obvious countries that you were talking about and Pakistan. Um, it was the second destination on kind of my, my big journey came about completely randomly. So when a friend and old school friend heard that I was. You know, traveling the world and telling travel stories.

She said, okay, well, why don’t you come over to Pakistan? You know, I’m here. I’m, I’m, I’m living here. And I was like, I don’t know. I mean, Pakistan, you like, she has, you know, there’s like tiny blonde girl with blue eyes, really sweet and gentle. And I was like, you, you really, you you’re in [00:09:00] Pakistan. Like that doesn’t seem like the kind of place that you would travel through.

She’s like, no, no, no. It’s completely different from what you expect. Come over. You’ll see for yourself. So I got my BS, I got my ticket. And then from the pile I flew to Pakistan and I was like, Oh my God, where am I going? Pakistan? I’ve heard so much about Pakistan, only bad things. Right. You hear about these countries, like, I’ll go, there’s violence, there’s terrorism.

Like you imagine things like people on the streets just have like guns with them. And there’s probably not much to see. And so I was imagining all these things, repeating these sort of like media narratives that we hear. In our daily lives, um, in my head as I was boarding the flight to Islamabad in Pakistan and, um, uh, yeah, landed and within maybe an hour, my entire perception of not just Pakistan, but the world and life, if I may exaggerate a little bit changed, just almost instantly, I [00:10:00] landed, expecting to visit some sort of, um, war zone with very little to see.

And I found a city that was lined with beautiful green trees. Um, nice cars, nice people who were smiling at me, not carrying guns. Um, and, um, I just realized, Oh my God, maybe I was wrong about this place. And then I stayed in Pakistan for a couple of weeks. Traveling to the North, which is a very beautiful mountainous region.

Some of the tallest mountains in the world, amazing nature. Valley’s really kind of people, interesting culture and spending two weeks, just the sort of initial two weeks there made me reconsider how I viewed the world and why I had viewed the world in those ways. Um, you know, kind of having succumbed to all the like sort of negative biases and stereotypes that, um, I had been exposed to through sort of mainstream media and never really haven’t questioned them before.

Until, of course I experienced them on my own skin and the fact that they just were not true. Um, and [00:11:00] so my two week. Uh, adventure with Pakistan turned into, um, a one year long stay in Pakistan, ended up staying for a year, um, traveling all across the country, making videos, um, about, you know, sort of travel culture, food, uh, in Pakistan.

And that was the real beginning I would say of the journey. And that’s what brought me here. Wow. And I suppose what, what I loved is probably when you went out to Pakistan, as you said, the media tabloids, especially around that sort of time were probably just full of horror stories. And I imagine, you know, your parents and friends and family were.

Well convincing you left right. And center to, to abandon this idea that you had this crazy idea. Oh my God. I mean, the things I heard, um, they definitely, I mean, my family and friends definitely [00:12:00] thought I was probably a little bit mad by that point because I had quit everything, you know, back in London and then next thing they know I’m traveling to Pakistan of all places.

So they definitely had some serious questions. And, uh, I’m most surprised of course. Uh, I would probably do the same for my friends, but, um, but it was definitely an unusual decision. And, um, the thing is that, you know, the longer I stayed in Pakistan, the more they worried, the more passionate I became about sort of telling them and showing them just how beautiful and different it was to what.

Maybe they were also kind of expecting and what they had been imagining. So, um, it definitely in very interesting ways, it was also a journey. Like it was a journey for me and sort of creating, um, content on public platforms like YouTube and Instagram about this amazing place. Uh, but also kind of a more personal journey into trying to convince my family that not only was I making the right decision by.

Um, you know, quitting my job in London and pursuing something completely new and [00:13:00] different and very sort of risky in a sense that there was no guarantees that I would succeed, but also then going to places like that as a solo female traveler. Um, and I think that was something that worried them the most, but that was also the kind of niche that I was the most passionate.

Well, what was the sort of moment that you had there, where you were like this, this is one of the best moments. Oh, where do I begin? Um, I think, um, Oh gosh, for example, I made a couple of unexpected friends, um, opposite of North, uh, in, in the North of Pakistan, in the mountains through just some common friends.

I had been invited to stay, um, in a sort of remote Valley, uh, in the North, in the mountains for as long as I wanted. So I kind of drove up there without really knowing much about it. The region without really knowing anyone there. And I would only get to sort of meet the family that would be hosting me when I got there.

I didn’t even get a chance to sort of talk to them on the phone or [00:14:00] anything before. So I was kind of going a little bit into the unknown. And the moment they sort of, you know, I mean, I arrived like driving down the sort of beautiful carrot quorum highway, which is one of the most stunning, I think roads in the entire world just takes you through these gorgeous mountains.

Um, and, um, you know, it’s, Oh gosh, like a day and a half to actually reach the village that I had been invited to stay and, um, reach the village, which was just. You know, underneath this huge mountain face, um, overlooking the, the Hindu Kush in the category of mountains and, um, entered the home of a family that was some native to the region.

Uh, part of the Waukee community who, you know, had their own language, their own customs, very separate from the rest of Pakistan. And I entered their house. And there’s only a couple of rooms in the house, in the main room where most of the family members sleep. There’s a , which is like, um, a sort of very basic stove.

There’s a [00:15:00] fire inside. It’s nice in the warm there’s carpets all over the walls. Um, there’s a beautiful sort of ceiling that’s carved in wood and inside there’s this. Family, this older lady, maybe 60 or 70 years old with long braids dressed in a traditional style with a beautiful woven cap. And she’s smiling at me and she’s welcoming me with some bread and some milk.

And then there’s her husband. You know, this elderly gentleman, who’s standing there with his like Pakistani pack, all this sort of traditional hat. And they’re just welcoming me this stranger into their home. They never, they didn’t know me before. I didn’t know them before. And yet here they are standing there with a smile and not speaking a word of English and me not speaking a word of their language and just expecting me to come in, just come in.

You’re our guests come in, take a bite of this bread, take a sip of this milk and stay with us for awhile. And I think this kind of like warmth and hospitality is something that I’ve experienced in [00:16:00] so many places. But I think Pakistan was really the place that kind of introduced me to. To that concept, which I think is quite alien to us in the sort of Western world.

We, we don’t have this. I mean, for example, in Poland, where I’m from, we kind of culturally pride ourselves on being hospitable and welcoming, welcoming, but it’s not really, it’s maybe a concept that existed once upon a time. But the, I don’t think no longer applies as much and that we don’t see it in practice as much.

We’re not as trusting of strangers anymore. Maybe at some point we were, but out there in Pakistan and so many other places that I visited there is definitely that sense that, Oh, you’re our guest come and share our home with us, come and share our food with us. And, um, yeah, that’s definitely been like the, I would say the most beautiful, mm.

Experience or set of experiences that I’ve collected on my travels. Is this kind of [00:17:00] the hospitality that I’ve experienced has just been absolutely mind-blowing. Yeah, I think, um, when you travel, that is the one thing you always take is the unbelievable hospitality that you get in some of these countries.

And. Once that, um, you would not expect at all. I remember it reminds me of a sort of time when we were traveling through Turkey and we were up in Mount , which, um, I think is famous for where Noah’s Ark less, less rested or something, something along those lines. And. Anyway, we were driving up, I think to camp the night and we came across the sort of Shepherd’s hut.

And as we drove in, we were like, Oh shit. It’s someone’s place. Let’s, um, let’s turn around and they’re like, no, no, come on in, you know, this little, uh, bell tent in the middle of the mountain, you know, the last bit on the [00:18:00] road, you would, no one would ever go up there. And they were like, come on in, come and have some eggs.

Um, so we sort of sat down in their tent. The stove was on, they cooked her some eggs and, you know, And then we went on that went on our way afterwards and you know, we didn’t speak a word. We couldn’t understand a word that they were saying, but is this. Sort of hospitality and the generosity that comes back again and again and again, when you, um, and I think I find a lot of that hospitality, um, you experienced it in some of the places that have some of the worst reputations for kind of, yeah.

Other human beings. You know, again, Pakistan, I think for a lot of people who don’t know much about the country, the first association would be of, you know, Oh, something terrible will happen to me. If I go there and not, Oh, well wait, hang on. Maybe someone will welcome me into their home. Um, you know, with bread and milk.

And that’s kind of not what we imagined is it. [00:19:00] And it’s, um, it’s really interesting that kind of dissonance that you experience of. Kind of the perceived world and the world that you actually end up experiencing with your own kind of senses. And it’s almost quite difficult to try and convince people because even when you tell them all of these experiences, they’re like, no, no, that’s not true.

Yeah, no, I I’ve been, and I remember sort of talking about this to someone, um, and they are like, No, that that place is very dangerous yet. I’m sure there are elements of this place, which are dangerous, but the vast majority of the people there are kind, they’re welcoming that they’re there with us smile.

Nope, Nope. Nope. That’s no true. Well, you can’t convince everybody, you know, you’ve got to pick your battles. And I suppose from Stan, then you were sort of traveling around the rock and you’ve recently you were in the Yemen when this [00:20:00] whole pandemic sort of kicked off last year. What was the idea? What was the idea of the Yemen?

That’s a great story because there was no specific idea. There was this story came about as, you know, a complete coincidence and a product of the circumstances of the time. So I think probably everybody remembers what they were doing more or less when the pandemic was announced in March, 2020. Um, and I remember distinctly that moment because I’ve got time.

I was in Socotra Island in Yemen. Uh, it’s an Island off the coast of Yemen, and it’s very, very remote, very difficult to get to. There’s only like one flight per week. Um, and it’s, you know, there isn’t that much infrastructure. There’s only like one town with kind of basic amenities, but, um, the Island is quite wild and quite mountainous, uh, amazing ecosystem, uh, loads of endemic species.

It’s a really unique, beautiful place. And it was actually my second visit there. I went there to [00:21:00] run a marathon. Which I ran in a, in a really good or full-time it was horrible. It took me like six hours and zero training beforehand. Terrible. Anyway, um, so the point is that we were there with a group of people, marathon winners, right.

And then a couple of days into our trip, uh, because we had been offline. There was no, there was no. Cell reception there. Um, at some point in the night, I think, uh, around 3:00 AM, we sort of see lights and we hear a motorbike approaching our camp. And suddenly we get knocks on our tend to doors. And it turns out that the best thing had arrived on the motorbike was telling us guys there’s a pandemic or like pandemic what this COVID thing has turned into pandemic.

And then, yeah. Yeah, it’s a pandemic. So the whole world is shutting down and countries are closing their borders. We’re like, what is going on? This was all news to us and Yana, and they’ve just sent a plane to Socotra. So you can’t leave. Like, I mean, you, the plane that was meant to come in a week’s [00:22:00] time is coming in like four hours.

So you better pack your stuff and go to the airport if you want to leave and go home. So everybody’s obviously like in huge panic mode, nobody knows what’s going on. I’m thinking like, go where like go home where I don’t have a home. Like I travel full time. I don’t have an apartment. My family is scattered all around the place.

Like, what am I going to do? So I have this idea come up in my head and I was like, Maybe I can stay me. Maybe I could stay, it sounds radical, but maybe I could just stay and wait it out and see what happens. You know, my, my boyfriend was with me at the time and unfortunately he was like, that’s why I can’t really stay with you because you know, my laptop’s broken.

Um, I like lost my credit card so much happened before that trip. He was like, well, I kind of have to go back home to Canada if I can. And I couldn’t at that point go to Canada. So I was like, well, I guess I’ll just stay. So I said goodbye to him. And I said goodbye to the rest of the group. And I watched the [00:23:00] airplane leave the Island from the airport.

As I stood there alone with just a couple of other, you know, mad people decided to stay. And that was kind of the beginning of it all. Um, So Kartra Island, um, became my home for the next three months. So as the entire world was in lockdown, people were unable to leave their houses and, you know, the pandemic was, and we’re still trying to figure out what it all meant.

I was on this remote Island in the middle of the Arabian sea with a couple of people that I knew. Um, you know, just like living a very simple, basic life and trying to wait it out and see how everything turns out. So yeah, after three months of kind of roaming around the Island, you know, sleeping under the stars and, um, you know, eating like a very healthy local diet of just like milk and bread and cheese, um, and you know, so many amazing adventures.

Um, I eventually made my way back to [00:24:00] Europe on a cargo ship. Um, and that’s maybe a story for another day,

but shameless plug it’s all on my YouTube channel. So if you want to check it out, it’s there. Yes. Well going all the way round through the sewers. No, no, no. Thankfully not. We were on the ship for a week, um, and took us from Socotra Island to, um, the United Arab Emirates. So we, then we sort of arrived in Abu Dhabi.

Uh, we park there for another week as we were being quarantined. And then from that, I flew to Europe. What was it like being on a cargo ship for a week? It’s an excellent adventure, actually. It’s beautiful for like clearing your mind. You know, you’re not as much to do. Cargo ships are pretty bland, you know?

Okay. The, the amazing thing is that there was wifi. There was a little bit of [00:25:00] what I felt like just enough to kind of communicate on WhatsApp, but the rest of the time. Yeah. I mean, you’re, you know, you’re kind of meditating on board, your I’m reading books, you’re writing that’s, uh, that’s how I kind of filled my time.

I hadn’t developed a tiny little routine route journal every morning, read a book a day pretty much, and sort of just look out, you know, on the ocean and kind of process everything that had happened over the previous three months. And that was, I mean, Obviously a very life, very sort of intense life experience, as you can probably imagine.

Um, so I think I needed that time to process, so I didn’t complain much about being on the cargo ship. Honestly, it was a great adventure and I would definitely do it again. When the, when, when you decided to stay behind, did you ever imagine that you’d be there for three months or did you think I will probably like quite a few people that this might be a month, maybe two.

Yeah. I thought maybe two months I heard that like, they’re like, it’s going to blow over, you know, like the world can’t stay [00:26:00] shut down because we’d never experienced anything like that before in our lives. Right. So, you know, you’ve no idea what to expect. And I was like, no, no, no. It’s like, It will be fine.

They’ll figure it out and politicians, whatever. And, um, yeah, but like as two months went by, I was like, Oh shit, wait, this is, this is, uh, becoming a thing. And, um, you know, kind of, I also knew that I had to find a way to leave the Island before the monsoon season, because as soon as the monsoon season kicks in, which is around July, Um, the Island actually becomes cut off from the world for about four months.

There’s no natural port on the Island. So ships cannot actually dock on the Island for the entire summer. And there were no planes. There was no way to actually leave the Island. So I think we left on one of the V like I’m sitting on the penultimate cargo ship that had arrived on the Island. So we were very lucky.

And did you manage to do, um, a bit of traveling in the last year? Yeah. So this is the thing [00:27:00] about sort of COVID is that I think there’s this preconception that it’s impossible to travel. I don’t think it’s impossible. I think it’s difficult and costly. And you have to be careful, but it is possible. So of course I, uh, over the last year I wasn’t traveling to as many different places as they would normally.

And I think that was a good thing because I got to sort of explore, uh, the part of the world that, you know, my family’s from originally. So Eastern Europe, um, I spent, I think two months in Romania and I cycled across Poland, um, in a feat of unimaginable foolishness and foolhardiness. Again, with no training, imagine that.

Um, but, um, you know, I sort of got a chance to travel a little bit more slowly and then, you know, I sort of things are opening up now I’ve started to kind of expand towards Asia again. So hopefully, um, hopefully COVID will just kind of situation as it is developing with all the vaccines and stuff. We’ll actually be able to travel a little bit more.

And then your future. [00:28:00] This new training thing seems to be a theme. I know, right? Oh my God. I have to stop. And that’s why I decided to run an ultra marathon so that I actually, I have to train otherwise it’ll just be struggle, pain and potentially death. Um, when I actually do it and you do it, you’re doing this ultra marathon and Mongolia, that’s it?

Yeah, exactly. 250 kilometers, uh, in Mongolia. And is the plan to record it on your go pro as you’re going watching? Absolutely, of course. You’ll see all the blood, sweat and tears. 100% guaranteed. Well, there shouldn’t be too much blood. I mean, uh, any blisters on the feet, I imagine going through the Gobi desert, thanks.

That’s kind of the image I was avoiding explicitly in my own head. And what was the reason for Mongolia? So Mongolia also holds a very, very special place in my heart. Um, again, not a very [00:29:00] obvious destination, not a place that you would necessarily consider for your next kind of, you know, um, holiday, but.

Um, Mongolia, um, was kind of also like a bit of a cathartic spot for me because I traveled to Mongolia as I was kind of going through this. Whole like questioning phase. When I was living in London, I was asking myself, what am I doing with my life? So I traveled to Mongolia on the sort of like very, almost cliche Trans-Siberian train, right.

Went to Mongolia and stopped there and then went home. Horse riding there and kind of like realized, Oh my God nature. So beautiful. So peaceful. And that, that was also, that was just like one other data point in my career kind of decision to, um, live a very different kind of life. So then I came back to Mongolia a couple of times in the last three years.

And, uh, most notably, I would say on my latest trip there, I, um, decided that I wanted to, um, track. A horse Trek in Mongolia on my own. So, um, I bought two [00:30:00] horses from a couple of friends that I knew that. And spend a little while sort of learning how to survive with horses in the wild, from the sort of local, Mongolian horsemen.

They taught me how to like, you know, not the ropes and how to make knots and how to secure the horses and how to feed them and how to water them and all these things. And, um, Then, and then I sort of just, I guess I got on horseback and I, and I went and I decided to just spend, um, a couple of weeks out there in the Mongolian wilderness, uh, making money, my way through sort of the mountains and the valleys just on horseback, kind of self-supported.

And, um, that was definitely like the most life-changing journey part of my life, whole sort of story. Um, you know, this is being completely. Alone far away from everybody. Um, having to really kind of take care of not just myself, but also these two beautiful animals that was, um, that trip really changed. Uh, sort of a lot for me, gave me a lot of confidence also to pursue [00:31:00] these bigger adventures out in the wild and the outdoors, uh, which is something that I’ve now been kind of doing much more of.

And, um, so yeah, so I think that’s why I’m on Golia is just a, kind of a recurring theme and the next big thing that I want to do. Next sort of big new thing that I want to try also has to be in Mongolia. It just, you know, the, the whole puzzle kind of comes together at this point. Wow. I mean, it’s, it’s incredible.

Um, as you were speaking, I was like, Oh, that’s exactly sort of roughly what I want to do as well. Take two horses into the wilderness and survive. It’s the most, it was the scariest most mentally and physically and emotionally exhausting thing I ever did in my life, but also, um, the most memorable, beautiful, and life changing thing I did in my life.

I mean, there’s this sort of theme, um, where, you know, you’ve Pakistan, Yemen. Um, I know other [00:32:00] places like Iraq and always sort of pushing yourself a little bit further at that. And you share a very sort of positive light. Have there been moments of trouble in those two or three years? Cause you do put yourself in a very vulnerable.

Position, um, as a solo female traveler, a lot of people imagine that I probably have these kind of horror stories to tell almost on a daily basis and that my life is quite risky and a lot happens. That’s very dramatic, but honestly not much happens. That is very dramatic, at least not instead of bad ways.

In three years of travel, as I’ve made my way to some of the worlds. Um, sort of most misunderstood countries I’ve really, um, I could probably count on the fingers of one hand. Um, the, sort of the, I would say, I guess, bad things or scary things that happened. I would say that, um, the scariest kind of recurring thing that definitely happens is when I camp alone.

So when I’m completely alone [00:33:00] in a tent in a place that I don’t know where there’s nobody around me that I know, um, as a woman that’s. That’s the situation that makes me feel always the most vulnerable and whether that’s in Mongolia or in Saudi Arabia or in Romania or in Poland, it’s the feeling is always the same.

And it’s the feeling of, you know, kind of being yeah. Um, you know, a potential threat essentially. And there’s so many stories that I heard from fellow female travelers who feel pretty much the exact same way, camping out there alone is one of the scariest things that you can do as a woman. Um, and it doesn’t really compare really to anything else that I’ve experienced.

Um, there hasn’t been, haven’t been any stories of, um, harassment or anything like that. Just that like that fear of being alone in a tent, it’s a scary one, man. So you sort of feel it’s the sort of fear of the unknown or something could happen rather than something that’s actually [00:34:00] happened. Yeah, absolutely.

I think it’s like the, um, you know, we, um, I think as, as women and camping loan, we’re definitely, it’s, we’re sort of easy targets almost. And again, you know, firsthand, I’ve heard so many different stories from women who have, you know, really had to kind of protect themselves and had to leave their sites because someone.

A stranger approach, their tent, having figured out that they’re alone and, you know, started making small talk conversation. That’s not, that’s not what you want in the evening in a place where you’re completely alone in a place that you don’t know. You don’t want someone, you know, anyone coming up to you and making small talk at that point.

Um, so. Yeah, I would say that that’s probably, you know, that’s what makes me feel really like scared and vulnerable. And, um, again, as, as much as I always want to empower women to, you know, go out there and sort of travel on their own and explore the world on their own. And I really believe that, um, the world is much, much safer than we think.

Um, it’s just those kinds [00:35:00] of moments, um, that you know, where you’re like, Oh shit, maybe I’m actually, what, what would I do in a situation like that? What would I do if someone approached me right now? There’s not much that you can do. Right. So, um, yeah, that’s, that’s the one thing I would say that scares me and that has been like, not a horror story, but, um, something that I think about a lot in terms of like fear.

And do you, do you, does it get better? The more you do it in terms of, I remember when I was doing my first trip across America and of course, I mean, even now I sort of look back and wondered why people are giving me these horror stories of America. And so the first few times wild campaign in America, I was absolutely terrified.

Um, and then after about, you know, the fourth time. You suddenly just get used to it. And then by BNA the April 9th, you’re like, right, let’s go and find a really exciting spot. And it sort of more of the challenge of finding a really cool spot to look out, to and [00:36:00] unzip the tent in the morning to look out on this sort of glorious view.

Honestly, like I would say for me, it doesn’t necessarily get better. Probably depends on what kind of person you are and like, you know, what you concentrate on in those moments. Um, for me, it doesn’t really get better. Um, but I do think that you get more savvy. So, um, in the sense that the fear is always there a little bit, but I’ve become smarter about, you know, choosing my locations.

For example, I would never camp, um, alone in a place where someone could see me quite easily from the road or from, you know, a track or trail or something like that. We’re a path. Um, but really kind of, um, having learned to, you know, pick locations where I’m the least. Um, in view where I’m really hidden away and also you kind of end up picking up some tricks along the way that help you kind of cope with at least making it seem like you’re not the only person in the tent.

Like I think one of the best tricks that I’ve [00:37:00] picked up along the way is to put two pairs of shoes outside of your tent. So that people think that you’re like a couple or two people, you know? Um, so yeah, maybe it doesn’t get less intense for me is just. I can find ways to kind of rationalize it a little bit better and be smarter about planning, where I stay and how to stay safe.

Well, Ava, I mean, you have some incredible stories and anyone who’s interested, Ava has quite the following on YouTube and Instagram. And as I’ve been saying, or throughout tells it in such an amazing and authentic way. Um, but there’s a part of the show where we asked the same five questions to each guest each week with the first being on your.

Trips and expeditions, what’s the one gadget that you always take with you? Um, I should probably at this point sort of plugging all the brands that I work with my camera gear, but, [00:38:00] uh, there’s actually one thing that is always, always, always with me. And it makes for the best gift for my friends and, you know, people always laugh at me when they find out what it is.

Um, I have these, this pair of socks that are made from Mongolian, camel wool, and they are the warmest socks in the entire world. And I bring them absolutely everywhere. They are always in my pack and they’re the best thing in the world because, you know, after like a full day of hiking, all you want to do is just getting your sleeping bag and then you get cold feet.

No, no, no, no. Not with these socks. So they’re like a, you know, they cost like $2. Bought them out of Mongolia and, you know, bizarre somewhere in lumber guitar. And that’s, that’s the gadget. I will take everywhere with me. What is your favorite adventure or travel book? There’s, there’s a lot of really fantastic ones.

And I was thinking about this earlier and the problem that I have with a lot of travel books is that a lot of them are like, Really outdated. And they use like language and descriptions of the [00:39:00] world where I’m like cringing, not all of them, but, but some of them definitely do. Um, so I find that like, it’s difficult for me also sometimes to relate to a lot of those books, because a lot of them were not written by people like me as in like, you know, girls who are just kind of getting started on their journeys.

So there was, there was one book that I did read like maybe six months ago and that really. Got me thinking about life and then kind of what I want to do in slightly different new ways. And that’s a book called woman in the wilderness by, um, a girl called Miriam Lance wood. She was very sort of romantic name.

Um, and it’s a book I, which tells the story of how Mariam and her husband decided to live a life off the grid in New Zealand and decided to kind of lend to hunt and forage and live in the mountains completely on their own. And it’s a really beautiful tale. Um, it’s very simple, but really, really nice and beautiful and quite inspiring in the sense that it shows you that you can live a beautiful bountiful [00:40:00] life with very, very little, and that it is actually possible to live outside of the system in the wilderness.

And, um, I mean, I, I’m not going to reveal any secrets here, but that book definitely inspired me to like, think about my future and. Some kind of new, different way. So let’s see what happens. Amazing. I know. Are you thinking of writing a book about your troubles? Um, yes. Yes. Very shy. Yes. I should say yes.

Hell yes. Um, yes. Um, I mean, I keep the publisher happy. I’m like, no, keep it quiet for now or is that no, but if you’re listening and if you’re, if you work for a penguin or random, please let me know. I’ll get in touch. Hey, at Abramson come Colin’s. Um, actually, yes. I mean, I, I haven’t started, uh, but it’s in the works for hopefully this summer writing a book is [00:41:00] something that.

Um, I’ve always wanted to do my entire life. Um, and I think I finally found the kind of, uh, the foundation for it. Let’s see. Would it be based upon your. Troubles and countries, or would it be about your personal experiences asking too many questions I’m just interested. Um, honestly we will see, um, I’m just gonna have to start writing and see how it develops.

I had a few ideas in mind, but you know, with these things, I mean, a book is much bigger than like a YouTube video. Right. So, um, it’s going to take a little bit more planning and a little bit more perseverance, but I hope you read it. I hope you like it. Well, let me know. Well, uh, we’ll see, when it comes out.

When it’s published by penguin. Yeah. [email protected]. Get in touch. Um, why are adventures important to you? I think adventures are important because they kind of take you out of your [00:42:00] comfort zone. They take you out of your, sort of away from your cushy, comfortable so far in your nice comfy house in whatever city you live in and they show you that you could.

Actually live a very different kind of life. That’s not the only reality that you can live and that living comfortably is not necessarily living fully. Um, and I love that kind of that discrepancy that, you know, you don’t need to go to Everest. You don’t need to go to the North pole to experience that you can literally just.

Leave your house and go to the nearest sort of trail, go to the forest, go to the mountain and have that experience of, you know, being in a completely new setting where you may not be super comfortable, but you really experienced that sense of being alive, which I think is so rare because we are just so like, um, you know, surrounded by all these comforts by all these, um, you know, everything is kind of.

Prepared for us in advance, everything is arranged, organized, planned. Um, so it’s very easy to lose yourself in that and kind of go through life [00:43:00] almost, um, without thinking about, you know, being alive and the feeling of being alive on what it actually means, but isn’t that like the essence of being human and being alive and living and existing.

Um, so yes, I think adventures are that, you know, um, for me, at least getting out of that comfort zone and really experiencing the sense of being alive. Very nice. What about your favorite quote? That’s another one I was thinking about it. There’s like, how can you. Like, how can I say there’s only one quote, there’s so many that I love and that I feel like defined me in so many different ways, but all right, cool.

So I’ll start with my tattoos. So I have a tattoo on my foot, which I got when I was 18. Uh, very silly, but actually I still deeply believe in it and it’s in French, but the translation is, um, the infinite is. Basically it kind of, um, [00:44:00] making me think of the infinite possibilities, infinite potential that each one of us holds and that hopefully, you know, um, I hold as well in some way, in some small way.

Am I a little micro universe? Then there is, um, a quote that I have on my wrist, which says I am the storm. And I pick this up from some running book actually. And I just thought it’s so fucking cool. Um, you know, I am the storm, my God like brings you in like a sort of place of power. And then the other day I was reading a book of poetry by Rumi and I love Rumi.

And there was this one quote that I thought was just so appropriate at this time in my life. And it said your boundaries are your quest. And with all these like adventures, any kind of pursuits, um, that we have, whether it’s endurance sports or travel or extreme travel, or even going hiking or doing something outside of our comfort zone, this idea of your boundaries being your quest is like, you know, [00:45:00] it’s like almost you, like, you have to go and seek your boundaries.

You have to go and seek your limits. That’s the whole purpose of it all. And yeah, I really love that idea. So that’s kind of, that’s recently been. I’m on my mind, quite a lot. That’s a good one. I liked the storm. That’s a very sort of powering, sort of gives a sort of whole sort of new meaning to. This way, especially when I’m trying to run up a Hill and I’m like really struggling, Oh my God, how much, much longer.

And they look at my wrist and I’m like, I am the storm. Aren’t I keep going, wanting to break down. You’re like, okay. I am God. Like I tattooed it into my skin. Surely I am.

So those your only two tattoos, I have three. Uh, so like one big one on my, uh, on my, um, my forearm, then one of my foot, and then one on my neck, sort of like [00:46:00] in the back, which is a moon, a star and a moon sign and a moon, um, kind of, yeah, sort of nature, opposites, all that symbolism, you know? I think, um, I think it’s in sort of South America where they sort of say that tattoos, every time you get a tattoo it’s like meant to represent a little part of your life.

Yes. So the one that I have actually on my forearm, um, that is kind of like a painting of my life a little bit in the sense that, um, you know, it kind of, um, You’d have to see it, but like, it kind of weaves its way up my arm through like sort of a path in the mountains, um, path in the sky sort of routes symbolizing this idea of like being sort of rooted in the world, but not really bound anywhere.

Um, it’s got, um, the circuitry dragon blood tree, which is a symbol of, of the, of the Island of Socotra. Which, you know, I mean, it’s a big part of my life by now. It’s good. It’s, um, an image of the heart of the moon of the [00:47:00] stars. So all these sort of things that, um, you know, natural elements, um, these emotional elements that I kind of weave into my work and my travels, um, that’s kind of all on here.

And hopefully this study will also evolve, um, in the future and it won’t just end at my elbow, but we’ll kind of keep going. More stories to add. Oh, it’s people who are listening now, always keen to travel and go on the sort of grand adventures. What would you recommend for people wanting to get started?

I think it’s very easy to kind of get lost in this idea that, um, you know, influences and adventurers, whatever you want to call them, um, that they just kind of have this gift or something. There’s something special that makes them kind of capable of going on these adventures because it always looks so easy.

Right. We always make it look so easy. Like, Oh no, no, no. Like I’m just, ah, I’ve just like strolled up Mount Everest, you know, I’m here taking some selfies. Like, no, that’s not the reality, like most, [00:48:00] um, In terms of like most content won’t show you the struggles and the challenges. And if it does, it’ll show you the struggles and challenges in a nice pretty way.

But the reality is that this stuff is hard. Like it’s always a struggle, you know, it’s always difficult. We just don’t show that thought. So don’t believe, you know, people when they, when they sort of show that it’s, it was easy. It’s always hard, but that’s kind of the point of it. Um, is overcoming those challenges, overcoming your struggles through your, you know, whatever sort of physical strength, but also I think, especially mental strength.

And, um, I think it’s important to kind of keep that in mind that it’s never as easy as it seems there will be challenges and you just have to embrace them. That’s part of the journey. Yeah, no, I couldn’t agree more. Uh, finally, what are you doing now? And how can people find you and follow your travels and adventures in the future?

Of course, as we’ve already mentioned, there’s the ultra marathon that’s coming up this [00:49:00] summer, which is my first ultra marathon. So I’m really excited, scared, nervous, panicked. I mean, you know, just the whole thing, the whole shebang. Um, so you can definitely follow along on that adventure on Instagram and on YouTube, and then hopefully the summer, um, also get to do some, um, really Epic mountain trekking in central Asia.

And then, uh, you know, maybe some climbing as well. Let’s see, uh, but a lot of really, really beautiful places that are really off the tourist radar, uh, coming up, including my own personal struggles, suffering challenges, joys and triumphs. Hopefully that’s all, that’s all my channels. It’s out in kurgastan we’ll touch.

He custom. Correct. Curious down Tajikistan. Um, if Russia opens up then hopefully also in Russia, um, towards the sort of Georgian side or exactly, and the caucuses. Oh, amazing. Well, I look forward to checking that out when that happens. All right. [00:50:00] Hopefully not too many, you know, blood, sweat and tears. No.

Well, you’re doing a lot of training now on you. Yes, exactly. No, no. Just winging it for the first time in my life. I feel like I’m actually doing something, you know, very disciplined and it’s a great feeling. Definitely gives you the confidence that you can actually, you know, you can actually persevere.

Yeah, well, Eva, thank you so much for coming on today. You have some incredible stories. And as for people listening, go check out her YouTube and Instagram, which will be in the description. And you know, it’s an absolute joy to watch. Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure. Well, that is it for today.

Thank you so much for watching and I hope you got something out of it. If you did hit that like button and subscribe if you haven’t already. And I will see you in the next video.

Mark Beaumont

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Mark Beaumont (Endurance athlete)

In today’s episode, we have Mark Beaumont, and he certainly has a few stories to tell,  he is a British long-distance cyclist, broadcaster and author. He holds the record for cycling around the world, completing his 18,000-mile route in less than 79 days—author of 5 books including the bestseller, The man who cycled the world, amongst others. On today’s podcast, we talk about his trips around the world, the stories from his adventures and what motivates him to keep pushing the limits.

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Transcript of our Conversation

Mark Beaumont

[00:00:00] Mark Beaumont: Hello, and welcome to the modern adventurer podcast. Coming up, the police were a real pain, to be honest, they, they thought it was an after nuisance to be escorting me through the desert. You know, they just kept signaling for me to put my bike in the back of the pickup. Why would you cycle when you’re, there’s a perfectly good feel to high Lux to drive you through?

And, you know, I understand that you’re cycling through the desert and all the field guns point North and You’re then cycling through massive rescue refugee camps with a lot of insurgency and issues in the areas you’re pedaling, pass burnt-out buses and vehicles. I can imagine it looked utterly ridiculous for them to be escorting.

You know, a European cyclist on his own saying it was important to get world record. And

[00:01:00] my next guest is an endurance athlete and has some incredible stories to tell. Mark Baymont is a British long distance cyclist, broadcaster, and author. He holds a record for cycling around the world, completing his 18,000 mile journey in less than 79 days on today’s podcast. We talk about some of the extraordinary stories he’s had.

I am delighted to introduce Mark Baymont to the show. Thanks for having me pleasure. Well, I mean, it’s so great to have you on the sort of, I’ve been following your journeys pretty much since, very start of the first round, the world and subsidy. Great to have you on and sort of talk about some of these adventures that you’ve had over the years.

Probably the best place to start is at the beginning and how you sort of got into this adventurous life or right back at the start. It was. It was pretty organic because [00:02:00] I wasn’t, you know, part of a club or I wasn’t being, you know, pushed into adventure. It was just living on the farm. It was just foothills the Highlands.

My parents were running a small 60 acre organic farm. I was homeschooled. And did go to. To a normal school, if you like until I was 12. So that gave me an extraordinary amount of freedom. So every morning there was a farm to run and I was, I, you know, milking goats and horses and collecting eggs from 200 free ranch hands.

And it was just, you know, life on the farm. And that gave me, I guess, a great sense of freedom and allowed me to. Yeah, I there, and I guess take, build, build build a knowledge of myself, but also sort of wild places, which a lot of kids don’t, I realize that night living in Edinburgh and seeing what kids get to do a lot of the time in the city.

Anyway. So yeah, I was 11 when I turned right into my parents and said, can I cycle, all I [00:03:00] said was can I cycle lens and John O’Groats, but I had no idea how far that was. So mum said I might try something smaller first. So that’s where it started the cycle across Scotland as well. Good. And so what, how did your parents sort of take to an 11 year old saying, can I say cool, John, a great slander.

And was this sort of compromise coast to coast? Well, yeah, I mean I don’t think my dad took it that seriously. My mom, you know, as a good thing, she didn’t say don’t be stupid because if she crushed that acorn of an idea, then I probably wouldn’t be sitting here. Twenty-five years later talking about expeditions to 130 countries.

It was it was a daft idea. And I mean, it was inspired by reading in the local newspaper about somebody who had cycled maintained and I hadn’t really cycled off the farm before, so I had no reference point for how far thousands of miles was that it sort of sounded cool. So so going coast to coast to go to Scotland took me three [00:04:00] days.

It was like 135 miles to 45 miles a day or something. And I loved it. I didn’t just love the journey, the bike ride. I loved the planning of it, the map, setting that going door to door in my local time Blake area and doing fundraising for some local charities. And then afterwards getting to share my story and hand over charity checks and the whole process.

And actually it coincided with me going to school for the first time. And if you don’t go to school to year 12, then you got a lot of learning to do. So I find the playground, a pretty hostile environment for a good while. And I think the fact that it was already into my adventure sports just gave me a, just gave me an a, gave me an escape, but it also gave me a bit of an idea density at a time where I was just not fitting in with the whole rugby and football.

Culture. I was that sort of kid that went skiing and rode ponies and cycled my bike and went for camping trips. So whilst everyone else had a very sort of formal structure around these things, [00:05:00] they went to, you know, they went to get at sort of, they went to Scouts. I didn’t do any of those things.

I just lived in a farm and went on adventures. Good. And so, I mean, imagine sort of being homeschooled and then going in, it sort of, especially where you quite split in terms of sort of sport, I suppose. Yeah. Sort of on the playground playing football, it must’ve been quite a sort of challenge. Yeah. I, I didn’t really anything with that.

I mean, I didn’t do well at sports at school, anything which was sort of traditional team sports was not my thing. So I think a lot of my peer group from schools, I mean, I’ve got some great lifelong friends from school, but I think there was two professional athletes from my year at school Allister Dickinson, and myself deco became prop forwards for Scotland.

And I went and cycled around the world. So deco deco was the classic, you know, alpha. Alpha male, brilliant at [00:06:00] sports. You know, it was kind of clear that he was going to, to do professionally and there was a few others, but it, but what was it going to be at a school like that? It was like rugby was sort of the sport.

So to, to be good at horse riding is just a bit weird. Whereas, you know, I was very passionate about that and very good at it. It’s probably my main sport until I was about 15. And then I lived very close to Glen. She, the ski slope. So my next door neighbor was head of ski patrol. So during winter, when we had paid her days, when she got back in the eighties I would just miss skill and go, go skiing.

And because I’d been homeschooled until the age of 12, mom had a very relaxed view on education. She was like, as long as you’re doing fine at school, you’re learning just as much. In a day, skiing is you would be in a day at school. So she, she, it wasn’t, it wasn’t an issue just to go and spend a day at the maintenance, which I often did.

Okay. So from there, I suppose, when you are sort of big on your cycling, growing [00:07:00] up, and that sort of probably led one thing into another and after school where you quickly to leave or did you go into university? Yeah. So in those. Teenage years I had done bigger and bigger expeditions by the time I was 15 I’d I’d done the end to end the, my first dives, Milo, my first solo ride, opiate supported.

And and then I did well at school and well sort of pushed, like most kids are to do the best degree that you can for your. For your grades. So I ended up going to Glasgow university and studying economics and politics. I did, you know, I did. And I’m so interested in those things, but I did have that sort of parallel path.

You know, adventure was always there, but the fact that I was quite academic meant that I was in a class of 300, you know, basically studying to be an accountant. And most of my friends are affected. So working in finance in one shape or form. So that was very [00:08:00] much. What I was pushed into, but I had a personal interest too.

I had no reference point for how you could make a career in adventure sports. But as I say, it was always there. When I left school, I went to Italy. I, the first thing I did when I left school was go to the team player in France and get my international schemes, ski instructors license. So I was already instructing nationally in the UK, but it’s a different license.

So then I went and spent time living in Italy and, and taught over there. And. I loved it. And I sort of thought, well, I could do this forever, but I also looked at those people who had that career 15, 20 years down the line. And it wasn’t quite as exciting as when you’re, when you’re that age. So I thought, well, probably not something, which in terms of family life and long-term, I want it, I want to define myself by.

So if I can keep adventure sports, I sort of a passion rather than a job, I’ll go off and get a professional qualification. So. It wasn’t until after university age 22, 23, [00:09:00] that I thought, right. Why don’t I just go on one vague expedition to end all expeditions? Not again, there was no reference point for how you could make this a job.

So it’s, it’s, it’d be a lie to reverse engineer and say, I plan to, I plan to do this. Like I just thought, what have I got to lose? This is the best time in your life to. Put all your contacts on the table and go on a big trip. And I thought if one of you got, if I wouldn’t go one big trip in me, I better make it in around the world.

You know? And I started researching what that could be and the circumvent, I was very much inspired by that, at that time, by like Ellen MacArthur, sailing around the world. And I thought, well, I’ve never raced. I’ve never been professional, but I knew I was a good bike rider and good June’s bike rider.

And I felt. Well, the circumnavigation world record will be the most coveted professional record in the book whoever’s got. That will be the Ellen MacArthur of the cycling world. And so I couldn’t believe when I [00:10:00] sort of did the research and find out that the record to get ranked planet earth on two wheels was 276 days.

And the last three people had come home within, you know, A similar time. I mean, that’s, that depends what you’re trying to do. If you’re trying to go on a slow touring route, that’s, that’s, that’s a perfect time, but it’s not quick, you know, it’s pretty slow. If you do the sums, I mean the, the daily mileage is, is, is not very competitive.

So I thought, why is this so difficult? Why is it not been done properly? So, I mean, the first time I cycled around the world, I think it was more of just spotting an opportunity. You know, I wasn’t the best bike rider in Glasgow, let alone the best bike rider in the world. So I, I sat tight with the simple idea to psych around the world.

I suddenly realized that if I did it, I could pick up a Guinness world record. I convinced the BBC to commission a film about it. And and I came back half a year later having smashed the previous [00:11:00] world record by. A couple of months coming home in 194 days. And what happened next was not something I planned, you know, I didn’t realize what happened when you’re, when you have like a, a four-part BBC one documentary series.

I went from pulling paints in a bar in Glasgow on minimum wage to, you know, being. Fought over for book deals and going on nationwide talk tours and being offered other documentary opportunities. And yeah, I mean, you can imagine, I can talk about it now. Cause it seems in history, it was 15, 17 years ago, but at the time it was just extraordinary.

There was no way I was going to do. I thought I was going to do and get graduate placements, you know, with, with the bigger Kansas city farm, I was gonna ride this rollercoaster. I was going to go and more adventurous. Wow. And so this sort of root game around that, because I know I was sort of there around the sort of [00:12:00] stuns about three years ago.

You can, you can either take the route up towards China, Tajikistan into Shing Jang. Or you can take it down into sort of Pakistan, Afghanistan through Iran, which route did you sort of take? Yeah, and I would say there’s three possible routes through, through Asia. You’ve described tooth in the Southern tier and the middle one, and then you could go North and head through Russia, Mongolia China, but.

The rules of the circumnavigation. You got to go more than 18,000 miles. You’ve got to pass through two anti-political points, two points in the opposite side of the planet and never go back and yourself and the not going back into yourself, it’s more difficult than you might think. So, for example, somebody tried to break the record before me cycled all the way to the East coast of China carried on across Australia, New Zealand.

Go home, you know, picture in the paper, broken a world record only to be told by Guinness world record that [00:13:00] the East coast of China is further East than the West coast of Australia, which is ridiculous. I mean, can you imagine how upsetting to pet around the entire planet and then realize that you’ve messed up in the planning stage, but if you end up on that Northern tier.

It’s quite hard to not go too far East. Now, one of the rules to myself, which is not a Guinness world record Ru is I believe you should try and cross continents as close as you can in their entirety. So people in the past have sort of stopped in the middle. They’ve got to wherever they think is difficult or convenient, and then they flown to somewhere else and you end up with this sort of.

Mismatch route, which is 18 days and miles is going in the same direction, but it doesn’t look on a primary school map of a wall. It doesn’t look like a second navigation. So that’s a bit of a rule to myself, which I, which I try and hold up. So that Northern tier and the middle tier is difficult. And the middle one that you described, which is across the Caspian’s and through the stands is very hilly.

I mean, it’s [00:14:00] beautiful, but it’s not fast. So the first time I went around the world, I went to safe. I went through Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, and India. I couldn’t have cycled through Afghanistan at the time because it was a very heated period of the war. And it was even difficult the way I would, the way I went, which was safety through Iran and then going through Baluchistan so that skirting the Helmand province.

And that’s a real, no mines line. I mean, that’s really, I was under armed security for a bite. 500 miles through the desert with the levy, the Pakistani transport police. And that was. I’m not sure I’d do that now. I realize that was quite, quite young and quite ballsy to, to head through there. Yeah, I think sort of when I sort of looked at the sort of routes that you took, because it’s a really interesting route, the self, as you say, going through, and it’s [00:15:00] quite, there are quite dangerous parts to it.

Did you have any sort of hairy moments along the way? I was aware that I was being closely protected. I actually only found real friendship from the people I was sometimes left with. I mean, there was a few points in the desert. The police were a real pain, to be honest, they, they thought it was an after and useless to be escorting me through the desert, you know, they just kept signaling for me to put my bike in the back of the pickup.

Why would you cycle when you visit perfectly good peel to highlights to drive you through? And, you know, I understand that you’re cycling through the desert and all the field guns point North, and you’re then cycling through massive rescue refugee camps with a lot of insurgency and issues in the areas you’re peddling, pass, burn, take buses and vehicles.

I can imagine it looked utterly ridiculous for them to be escorting, you know, a European cyclist on his own saying it was important to get world record. [00:16:00] There’s no way to communicate that. Anyway, there’s no language in common to explain why you’ve arranged this, this police escort. And I, I was left questioning the purpose and the priority when you’re faced with such such sort of, well, even when I go past quitter, which is the first big city in Pakistan and then drop down to the Indus Valley and it, you know, so for the first time in my life, absolute poverty, you know, just seeing people with.

The most incredibly upsetting like in terms of how they had to live on the road side and just the desperation and thinking, well, there’s this crazy mission of mine to psych around the world for what a world record. I mean, it just seemed, so it just seemed so silly. It just seemed so worthless and ridiculous in the face of people who had no choice.

To do anything, let alone get on their [00:17:00] bike and peddle around the planet. So did I face danger? It was a few hearing moments, but I think what I really baffled with was just you seeing the world in that way. You’re so intimate on the bicycle. You see the world like a slideshow, you see things really up close, you smell things, you hear things.

And just being on a journey growing up, you know, I was, I was young, I was 22, 23 years old and I was just trying to was the first time I traveled, I excited of Europe and North America. And there I was sleeping in ditches under the road and police stations and in the most ridiculous places. And then, you know, I experienced all that.

Got to Lahore. Got met by a BBC camera man checked into a five-star hotel and suddenly I was in another world and it was just, it was very hard to sort of join it all up. Make sense of it. The most cathartic thing I did when I came back was write about it because I was still trying to figure out, [00:18:00] you know, the motivation to break this record alongside witnessing and experiencing humanity in such an amazing way, which you can really do on a bicycle or, or by foot.

Yeah, I agree. I think with a bike and we’ve sort of talked at length on this podcast about it. We’ve had, you know, Jody Stewart who also did a cycle around the world and we spoke about, you know, by having a bike or by going off foot, you’re very immersed within. The area, whereas in a car, you know, you pass it by in the blink of an eye, you don’t get the smell.

You don’t get the feel of what that area is actually like. And on a bike you’re very vulnerable in that sense, whether you’re going through a very dodgy area, you are very vulnerable. And most of the time, you know, people are so good to you because of that. Did you. [00:19:00] On your sort of trip. I mean, you went through Australia and New Zealand as well on that first time, was that the sort of generosity and hospitality there, which you could actually sort of step off the bike for a moment or a day?

Yeah, it’s bizarre when you spent, I mean, you’ve clearly done this as well. When you spend a lot of time traveling through a part of the world where you don’t speak the language and you’re, you’re your entire purpose is to find a safe place to sleep you know, clean water and your next meal. You then get back to a more familiar bark.

The world. I’ll always remember touching down in Thailand. And the strange thing about Thailand, when you get off the beaten track, it’s very few people speak English who complete compare that, say Malaysia, just down the road where everyone speaks English. So I guess my point is I flew from Calcutta into Thailand.

And suddenly everything looked very familiar. You know, there were seven 11 on every corner and, you know, petrol station. So I could walk into [00:20:00] buy anything I wanted and brands I would, I would know as after Pakistan in India, which was just so foreign in every way. But I still and communicate with people.

And then I got to Malaysia and suddenly it was just. Everyone talks about how exotic these countries are. And they’re sort of that sort of place, the old gap, your bike backpackers go to for this other worldly experience. Whereas actually they felt brilliantly familiar after the likes of, you know, Southern Iran.

And then I got to Australia and even though I’d never been to Australia before, I felt like I’d arrived home. Like, you know, okay. I was in the Australia, I looked back and it couldn’t be any more different to. To to, to Scotland, but, but actually it was just, it was just ridiculous. I was like, this isn’t even an adventure and I enjoyed it.

But after the claustrophobia of India, I love India, but it’s one of these places that’s amazing to go to. And it’s amazing to leave because you need, you [00:21:00] know, when you’re used to space your own space, personal space, India is one of those countries that. You know, whether you’re on the road cycling or stopped and in a cafe you’re not given any space.

And it’s wonderful for that, but it’s intense. It’s so intense. So I got to Australia craving a bit of sort of a timeline, and I got plenty of that because I was straight into the Australian night, back in a thousand miles trying to sort of water ration to the next. Rotax so yeah, it was a world of extremes.

And I suppose when you’re going the first time round, you’re wild camping. And so you’re always looking for, you know, your next place to sleep, your next place to drink and in the Outback, I mean, it’s completely sparse. So do you, had you already planned the sort of route, not the route, but like moments where you could stop and get water beforehand, route ways.

There is only one [00:22:00] road. Supply points. The road houses were, were pretty obvious in between the route houses, th th th there’s these big these big war tanks, which I sort of counted on and thought these fake supply points were going to be the dock to dock that I needed. And actually I realized within my first couple of days later that most of them have run dry.

So based sort of strategy to quite simply. Make my way between these, these big rays of wires in the middle of the egg bag, wasn’t wasn’t reliable. So give me bigger gaps and the issue there was, I planned most of my, I planned my route West to East because I thought most of the continents we’d have a prevailing westerly, and I would I’d have a tailwind.

It didn’t do what it was meant to across Australia. And I had about 3000 miles of headwind. It was a three and a half days a mile crossing. So yeah. It was okay. First thing every morning, but [00:23:00] by 10, 11 o’clock the wind was up and it was just ferocious. I mean, the hardest conditions I’ve ever faced as a cyclist are in Australia and Patagonia.

So it was the Southern hemisphere in terms of, you know, these winds that roar around the planet with such, you know, such few barriers, you know, without, without, without the mountain ranges and the, and the land mass we’ve got in the Northern hemisphere. So just these ferocious. Constant wins, not like gusts and storms like we experienced in the Northern hemisphere.

So, so the ag back ends up a real battle, a really lonely place. Me just trying to get through. And a couple of times, you know, getting stuck shore to where I thought I would get to. And, you know, I’d say running out of running out of supplies along the way. So it was, it was harder than I thought. And I found, I found a strangely, a bit of a psychological battle, you know, after.

After what had been such an exciting adventure going through Paris to [00:24:00] Calcutta, I was then sort of left with my own thoughts for, you know, the next the next big stint. So to get to New Zealand after that was well, is there really is like Scotland on the other side of the world. That was just, it was just so busy.

It was so quaint. The roads were so small. You know, Even in the middle of nowhere, you’d find little farm shops with great foods. And I just find New Zealand. So, so simple compared to getting across Australia, you know, so welcoming. But but it was it was December. So, you know, it was bizarre. It was again, a way on the other side of the world, spending Christmas day cycling in the rain up to Auckland, which was Which was again, you know, very much a coming of age experience.

It was like, here I am, this is what I wanted to be doing. I’m 10,000 miles into this adventure and a long way from home. [00:25:00] Yeah. Yeah. And I suppose finishing that, that’s when it all sort of kicked off for you, as you said, you know, with book deals and BBC, because originally I think I, I heard the, you know, it was only meant to be a sort of.

One episode on BBC Scotland or something, and suddenly it was made into this big document. Six part documentary. Yeah. It grew arms and legs. So the BC Scotland commissioned it as a heart fire dog. So if you imagine spending half a year out there for, I mean, I would get into some days and spent half an hour chatting to my camera.

So I certainly wasn’t shooting it for a half hour doc, but yeah. This camera arms like became my only body on the road. It became my constant companion. It was it was a way to share the story. And I was interested before I left. And then in the first few days I had a cameraman with me for the first few days and they shot so much.

They just filmed in filmed and filmed and felt. And yeah, I did [00:26:00] say to David the cameraman at the time, I said, why, if this is a half hour documentary, are we filming quite so much? And he laughed and he said, well, Mark. If you get to the German border and quit, we still need to make a half hour documentary.

So we have to, we have to have a contingency. And I was like, Oh, right. So it’s not that you think there’s a bigger story in this. You’re, you’re protecting yourself for the dying side. I just don’t do it. And the whole story becomes about the dream that didn’t happen as a tracing dog. So so when I finished by that point, the camera man joined me Four locations.

So at the start is that bill for a day or two Pakistan. Didn’t have something that I want in Australia. And then I joined me in Texas for a few days. So it was mainly self shot with a few days of sort of objective filming or getting me in the landscape and whatnot. And when [00:27:00] I came back, they, they very quickly made it into a four part series and Echo air don’t BBC Scotland got a fantastic response and then got picked up by network and shown on, on, on BBC one.

And it was very interesting. The response, I mean, this is, I say a good, a good way to go. My record was very quickly broken and a number of people over the sort of 10, 50 years afterwards broke my record. And I spoke to a number of them, you know, I always got in touch and congratulated and, you know, I knew who these people were.

And I know a few more sad that the there ran the world efforts and breaking the record going faster. Didn’t give them the same opportunities. It didn’t give them the same career had given me clearly. And that’s not pretend that it’s always been a plain ceiling. I’ve made a lot mistakes and there’s been [00:28:00] some good years and bad years, but I did, I did have this broadcasting career from day one.

It was always part of it. And I think some of the, some of the writers were always surprised that by, by doing what they set out to do and breaking the record, it didn’t in and off itself, give them that opportunity. But I think the reality is the filmmaking is the sharing of that story. Was there from day one.

It wasn’t. I think when I finished the round, the world cycle, I would have got like everyone else two or three days coverage in the papers at most. And then it would be a forgotten story to create that legacy and to create further opportunities, to get, to write a book and, you know, to use it as a, as a launchpad for other things.

The S the, the sharing of that story and the capturing of it is as important as the sport. And I think quite a lot bike riders in adventures. Don’t, don’t realize maybe they do now with social media, but they didn’t [00:29:00] realize that that’s actually a completely different skill set than breaking the records.

Breaking a record will give you, you know, a day in the papers and then you’re, you know, tomorrow’s chip paper, whereas to give real legacy and opportunities to do other stuff, you got to, you got to plan that stuff from the start. And I had no idea when I said to that first time around. Really what I was doing.

I didn’t know that it was going to open more doors, but I knew I couldn’t afford the trip. So I knew in a very sort of economist mindset that I needed to somehow give return on investment to my sponsors. So I spent half a year telling that would be sponsors, that I was going to make telly. And I spent the same time trying to talk to BBC and saying, well, the whole thing’s paid for.

We just need to, you know, you just need to give me the cameras. So there was no contract with the BBC. They didn’t pay me a penny. I just gave it to them in the hope that I would get some coverage for my sponsors quit. And you know, for half a year, I was trying not to tell any fibs, but I was trying to give everyone the confidence that this what was happening.

And you know, the reality is I didn’t have a [00:30:00] documentary yet, and I certainly didn’t have the money, but you’ve gotta, you gotta, you know, you gotta, you gotta paint the picture. You gotta, you gotta share the dream. You’ve got to tell people that this is happening. And it’s amazing how that works.

Right. But I didn’t see it till, till afterwards. Yeah, you can always you can’t connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them when you look back and by you being able to tell the story throughout your time, because it’s one thing just to turn up. Break the record and be like, duh done. But we’ve you, you had the camera, you told the story of your journey and that’s probably far more interesting and inspiring to others and to the BBC.

I mean, it looks pretty old fashioned. Now you can go on YouTube and watch the man that cycled the world. But I loved it, you know, I’d say it was it was before social media. Facebook had been invented, but it really wasn’t a thing. Twitter, when I went on [00:31:00] my next expedition, then the length of the Americas, which was a nine month trip.

A few years later, I was asked by the BBC to take this new thing called Twitter though. I’ve never heard of him. And and this was so, I mean the first documentary I shot, I’m not that old, I’m 38, but the first documentary I show, I filmed on many days that’s cassette. That was real, real cassette. So we’re, we’re talking about that sort of.

At the end of analog start digital before social media. So to, to live a journey, not because I’m trying to be an Instagram influencer, but because I’m just going on a journey with a camera arms was had a great simplicity about it. I suppose with your trip around the world, as you said, people started breaking it and you know, the time was getting cut shorter and shorter and shorter from 194 days to, I think 127.

By the time you decided to go again. [00:32:00] Yeah. And I suppose then the motivation was again to try and break the record. But I suppose with this people, you went with panniers heavy load self-sufficient and then the next time you’re like, right. If we proper lightweight bike support team, you could probably get this down.

Yeah. I mean, I was a very different athlete by that point. I’d watch with Owen, with interest as the record had been broken many times over the years, and once it got down into the one twenties. I mean, if you’d asked me when I finished first time, right. I would have sworn that I’m never going to psych around the world again, why would I do the same thing twice?

And also when I first I could run in the world, I felt like I’d left all live there. You know, that point in my career, that was the hardest thing I’d ever done. I had gone as fast as I could. And so, you know, job done. So I then went and did lots and lots of other expeditions, not just cycling, but. [00:33:00] I built an interest in the performance side, as well as the adventure.

So it was no longer that sort of wild man, just out there, you know, where’s my next meal, where am I going to sleep tonight? The performance side really mattered and there was such an evolution in that decade away from tracking to bike packing and you know, the ultra light. So, you know, in 2015, when I smashed the Africa world record the Kairos Cape tag, I took that record from.

59 days died 41 and I was riding by 160 miles a day. And that’s a 10,000 kilometer race. And you know, Africa is still my favorite continent for, for, for an expedition like that. That’s really what gave me the idea I thought, right. I’ve really pushed it here. I, I really have taken us to the next level, but.

It’s still as much about what happens off the bike as on the bike. So why I really wanted, by [00:34:00] that point, I was mid thirties. I thought I really want one chance in my life to put all my cards on the table and go, what is my ultimate? You know, it’s no longer by I quick click and I find my next meal or where am I going to pitch my tape?

It is purely about how fast can I go? And so that’s why I came full circle back to the world. I thought, well, I’ve only got one chance to figure out that sort of expression of as an athlete. What’s, what’s my Everest, what is my Everest? Right. So it’s gotta be, it’s gotta be the world. And I started putting the team together on that 18,000 mile race.

And we got them to at 90 days in terms of the planning, like what, what should be possible. And then I put it back to my team as more, as a hypothesis than anything else. I said, well, If 90 days is possible, could you do 80? You know, I mean, breaking the record is one thing, but 80 days is such a one-time price.

And that’s where we got fixated on that idea. And to my [00:35:00] knowledge, there’s only one other person who had ever speculated that you could cycle around the planet and less than 80 days. And that was the great late my call, who sadly passed away just before I set out around the world in 2017. And amazing adventure cyclists.

So I, whilst I have cycled around the world twice and it’s exactly the same record in terms of the, the rules. It be any more different in terms of the experience. You know, second time Ryan was, was purely about performance. It wasn’t about the people that I did not meet. Yeah, I, it was just very interesting to see the dynamics between the two in terms of, you know, the 80 days to the 997 one was a real adventure and the other one was pure physical endurance, pushing yourself every day.

Probably what getting [00:36:00] up at silly o’clock in the morning till 12 o’clock at night. Yeah. I was riding for 16 hours a day, no sleeping for five hours a night. So it was up a half, three on the bike and for, you know, writing by 16 hours. So it was averaging 240 miles a day. So if you compare it to the first time, Ryan, first time around, I rode a hundred miles a day and I would ride for roughly eight hours a day.

Second time around. I would write for 16 hours a day. So twice the time on the bike and every one of those hours, I was riding significantly faster. So you know, performance wise, first time Ryan was a much better adventure, but, but the second time Ryan makes the first look like kindergarten. I mean, lots of people who drive a hundred miles a day.

Not many people could drive 240 miles a day back to back to back for two and a half months. [00:37:00] Yeah, no, it’s, it’s an extraordinary sort of achievement and just phenomenal. And I praise God. I mean, it’s just an amazing story. Really. Oh of just physical endurance and just pushing yourself. We, we sort of speak, I think it was Jamie Ramsey on episode five was talking about the idea of this balloon, where you sort of blow this balloon in terms of pushing yourself and you blow it a little more and then you think, wow, that was as fast I could go.

And then it. Just grows and grows and grows to the point where you’re pushing yourself, way beyond what you ever thought. You could push yourself five years before and you just keep sort of pushing yourself further and further. Yeah, for sure. And that’s, you know, it goes back to the point you made a few minutes ago, you can only see these things looking back.

There’s no way as a [00:38:00] graduate, I could look forwards and imagine that. Not just that there would be the opportunities to do these things, but I’d have the physical ability or psychological logistical, you name it all the rest of it. You know, you can only see the next horizon once you’ve made it to the first and, and, and onwards and onwards.

And I think it’s a great analogy and anything engineering, you just ride through it in front of you. You’ve got no idea how long that road is or where it’s going to take you. And if you were to think about the entire scale of what you’re trying to do, whether it’s a physical journey in front of you or life full stop, you know, you just wouldn’t get out of bed because it’s, it’s hard, you know, it’s, you’ve got to suffer well, and there’s going to be lots of knocks, but you can normally ride the road in front of you.

And, you know, the, the, the learning from that. And, and the interesting thing about endurance is so little of it is just the physical realm. I mean, I’m six foot, three and 90 kilos, so I’m clearly not the [00:39:00] world’s best bike rider. And yet the confidence and the learning over the years and the teams I worked with to, to build this the opportunities to take on some of the world’s most iconic endurance.

Records and we’ve never picked a record. You know, we’ve never broken anyone else’s record. We’ve always created these leaps in performance because we’ve had that, that ability to learn from what people have done before, you know, really respect the history of that and this such an amazing supportive network of adventures, eight layer who are willing to, to share information and ideas.

But then not make the same mistake that so many people make, which is just base your targets. And while the people who’ve done, you know, I’ve never taken somebodies record and said, right. Let’s beat that. I’ve always gone. Okay. How have you done that? You know, really broken apart and understood and learnt it and then said, right, what should be possible?

How do you take that learning and bottom up approach? I little, [00:40:00] can I sleep? How far can I go, what inputs do I need for the ride? What are the geeky details? Most people get lost just in the sport of it. So they train hard and they think it’s about a physical task. I get absolutely lost in, you know, all the, all the things which you should know and mitigate.

Everyone worries cycling around the world about getting stopped by Russian police or tricky border crossings, but, you know, I’ll hire. The honorary consult Mongolia on my team. I’ll get it signed off at the, you know, the, the, the head of Russian police or I’ll get Menzies aviation, the ground handlers at the airport onto my team.

You know, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll go, I’ll go to every length to make sure that my job on the bike is not. Is not undermined by something that we should have thought about then. So I think that’s, if there’s an X factor, it’s that level of detail that we go to, to know everything that we should know and not just thinking itself about your physical fitness.

[00:41:00] It’s just cutting, cutting the time, just by seconds here and there that make up such a huge difference. It’s like when people go on expeditions and then they cut the sort of string of a zip, because that’s two grams or something, and then they cut it around, you know, the packaging. Tags because that’s two grams there and two grams here and then it all adds up in terms of weight was the biggest thing.

The biggest thing for me is time, but it’s similar to what you’re talking about, but what I stress to my team on the, on the Rand, the world in 80 days was if we, if we fast for five minutes, every time I got off the bike, that would add a deep, the world record. So rather than talking about, you know, aerodynamics or like, All the things that people get lost on, which are important.

Just make sure I’m on the bike at four and not five bucks for, you know, just control the things you can control. And that time management and discipline, you know, not worrying about how far you went every day, just doing the time 16 [00:42:00] hours a day, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s a discipline, which stops you.

It was funny. I banned my team from asking me how I felt because. When you’re under a lot of pressure, there’s an obvious question for people to ask when they don’t know what to say, how are you feeling? How are you a is a hard one to answer when you feel like crap. But secondly, it doesn’t matter how I feel.

Cause I could feel on top of the world or I could feel completely unmotivated. It doesn’t affect what we are doing today. And so that, unless it’s about safety and that’s a conversation from my performance team, unless it’s about, is it safe to carry on or not the, Hey, do you feel brings in an unwelcome unnecessary aspect to today’s performance?

And I said to them very clearly, you know, you’re not allowed to ask that question cause it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t influence our behavior. Yeah, that’s really interesting. [00:43:00] One just five minutes adds to an entire day over the course. Well, Mark, thank you so much. There’s a part of the show where we ask the same five questions to each guest each week with the first being on your trips and expeditions.

What’s the one gadget that you always bring with you. I it’s not massively exciting. It’d be it’d be a GPS tracker. You know, I think people, whether they’re going on local micro adventures or global adventures, just people knowing where you are and being able to pool the pain and call it may day when things go wrong, people always assume that will be okay with your mobile phones, but a proper GPS tracker, a personal locator.

So that I know wherever I am that I can keep in touch with my loved ones. So pretty boring, but something that people don’t think enough about it when they go on trips. And I don’t mean cycling around the world. I mean, even if I had to enter the pentlands, I’ve got to travel. [00:44:00] Oh, very nice. What about your favorite adventure or travel book?

Cranky. Well, let me, let me give a plug for Rob Pope’s new book. Who’s the Mr. Forrest Gump, the guy that rat that lived the true Forrest Gump and the book’s called becoming forest. And I’ve been in a very small way, helping him get this, get this out there. And it’s going to be published in the summer or early often, but Rob, Pope’s an absolute legend.

These He’s a vet by trade. And he hosts a podcast for red bull when adventure stuff, but yeah, I’m so delighted. He’s he’s finally got a story at a Berkey, such a he’s a Liverpudlian and he’s got a brilliant sense of humor. So when you can becoming forest, I’ll be there real paper. Okay. Why are adventures important to [00:45:00] you?

Why adventure adventures important for me, adventurous for me, by creating memories there, by getting out there, doing difficult things, and I’m building a building a better sense of self. And now that I’ve got kids, I’ve got two daughters. It’s about showing them, you know, giving them a connection to the world, getting out there and doing difficult things, creating memories, and you build a better sense of self.

Through through the journeys you call people, places, landscapes. So, yeah. Very nice. What about your favorite quote though or motivational quote? It’s not really a motivational quote. My, my mum was in a cloud. So half of my family is Maclean’s and their [00:46:00] clan motto for the McClain’s it’s hold fast. And I’ve always used that in difficult situations.

Just having part of your family’s motto is hold fast. It’s quite useful when the shit’s hitting the fan. Yeah, that is a good one. People listening are always keen to travel and go on these sort of grand adventures. What’s the one thing you would recommend for people wanting to get started? What was the classic doorstep mile?

Isn’t it? The doorstep model that sort of Scandinavia Scandinavian phrase, which is just meaning the hardest part is committing to the journey. Now, whether that’s going out on a trading ride cause it’s dark or it’s raining outside or, or saying I’ve lied to your partner or friends that you’re going to do something.

It’s the, it’s the concept of turning an idea into reality. So I meet people all the time and I’m sure you do who have grand ideas. We all have dreams, but make it being somebody who’s in a habit of turning dreams into [00:47:00] reality is, is just committing to the doorstep mile saying I lied, being brave changing.

Yeah. From something you’d like to do something you are doing. And that shift of mindset is a habit. We all get comfortable. So yeah, the, the, the, the committing to the, the committing to the journey. Saying I live. So you build some accountability around it is is, is, is always the key after that.

There’s lots of challenges, but they’re very practical. Get it sorted challenges. Whereas what stops people going on a journey he says is the void that exists between dreaming and doing. If they intend to tell people until it’s like official and then I tell them, and then it’s like, there’s no going back anyway from there.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, we all work in different ways. Yeah, I’m fine. What are you doing now? And how can people follow you in the future? I mean, keeping up pretty straight forwards. I’m not the most prolific social media user, but yeah, my ma Mark, we went online and all my [00:48:00] social channels are, are, are pretty pretty, pretty good at sharing the story.

I’ve got five books, lots of documentaries online, quite all. My films are on global cycling network these days. So GCN the stuff on the YouTube channel and And the big docs are on the subscription platform, which is GCM plus this year because the big expeditions they are slightly curtailed by me smashing my hand last month.

So just at 21 stitches taken out of my finger. But yeah, we should be back in action in June for some films, which will hopefully be worth following over the summer. And it’ll. I’ll share more with them when I can. Well, Mark, it’s been an absolute pleasure hearing your stories and thank you so much for coming on.

Absolutely fascinating. The sort of, as I say, cycling around the world, the sort of stories from that and the sort of mindset you sort of had to go through, keep up, [00:49:00] keep up the great work with the, with podcasts have enjoyed it. Well, thank you so much. Well, that is it for today. Thank you so much for watching and I hope you got something out of it.

If you did hit that like button and subscribe, if you haven’t already, and I will see you in the next video.

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