Lizzie Daly

[00:00:00] Lizzie Daly: Hello. And welcome back to another episode of the modern adventure podcast coming up, understanding how we can better conceive African elephants and an important part of that conversation right now is absolutely considering the fact that we aren’t. Effectively coexisting alongside them. So for those who may not know, listening that conflict with humans and elephants in across Laikipia in Kenya is, is a big issue, especially in the dry season, you know, there’s excessive fence breaking excessive drop rating which leads to.

You know, issues directly between humans and elephants. So

on today’s show. We have Lizzie Daley, a wildlife biologist [00:01:00] specializing in African elephants in Kenya. We talked to her about some of the incredible stuff that she’s done in the last few years, traveling all over the world and seeing some of the most incredible things. I am delighted to introduce Lizzie daily to the show.

So for the last three years, you’ve been traveling all around the world, going on these crazy sort of expeditions, Filming. But doing photography with wildlife, how did you get into doing what you’re doing now? Oh, gosh, it could be a long-winded answer. So that’s a good question. But essentially I’ve kind of go back a few years, even before I went to do my masters in Bristol.

For me, it’s always been about the wildlife and it’s always been about wanting to be a scientist and someone who, you know, Is it, it’s an expert, if you like not great word to use, but someone who’s just like very much involved in that world. And [00:02:00] for whatever reason as I started to do, you know, I knew I wanted to study animals and animal behavior.

So I started my degree at university of Exeter and I decided that. Telling stories about the natural world, as well as being out there, exploring it, making the most of it and sharing that with others is absolutely what I want to do. So the broadcasting world the, the, my passion for the natural world, kind of just combined in this.

Ridiculous combination of, of what is now potentially a career you could say, obviously COVID hit, but yeah, it’s, it’s kind of resulted in me being very lucky and having some incredible experiences with a variety of species across a variety of places. And I’m somehow calling it a bit of a job. I’m also studying my PhD.

So, you know, first and foremost, I am a scientist and I absolutely love wildlife first and foremost, I just [00:03:00] get the, up to the opportunity to go out and tell stories through presenting and filmmaking and taking photos too. And so you sort of got started with this, you’re a wildlife biologist. What does a wildlife biologist do on a sort of daily basis?

Oh, gosh, that’s a good question. I’m not sure you’d want to actually know because typically a wildlife biologist is like sat in front of a laptop and analyzing data or satin and lab or analyzing data, but there is a fun side too. So studying wildlife as well. You know, you get to go out in the field.

You get to, so for me I’m using tags and tag technology to better understand African elephant behavior. So that has involved a few trips out to Kenya has involved learning more about some of the issues with African elephants. In that landscape. And it will, when COVID passes involve going out back in the field to deploy some more tags, which is, [00:04:00] is very exciting.

But to be honest, you know, it’s a bit of, a bit of both. It is a bit of lap time. It is a bit a laptop time and fingers crossed the Morefield time to come. So you spend quite a lot of time in Kenya with elephants. What what. For people listening and people watching what exactly you say you’re sort of tagging them, or are you more sort of looking at the communities that the elephants roam through and sort of looking at how they can co-exist.

Again, like where are you? Good question. Just because my, so back in 2018 now my initial interest in that area, I mean you know, you know, knowing that Kenya landscape and some of the issues there with elephants w was this coexistence, because for me, it’s all about understanding how we can better conserve.

African elephants and an important part of that [00:05:00] conversation right now is absolutely considering the fact that we aren’t. Effectively coexisting alongside them. So for those who may not know, listening that conflict with humans and elephants in across Laikipia and Kenya is, is a big issue, especially in the dry season, you know, there’s excessive fence breaking, excessive, cooperating which leads to, you know, issues directly between.

Humans and elephants. So when I went in 2018, I went to write my PhD proposal. I went to work alongside space for giants, and I really had just three months there to get my head around some of these issues and what, you know, what was really my passion and what I’m interested in. So in that respect, you know, in that time, I learned very quickly that it is very much all about community led conservation in that the whole picture is about people and elephants.

However, you know, at the moment, if you were to ask me right now, what [00:06:00] my research is it’s very technical and I won’t bore you with that over the next 40 minutes, but it’s essentially understanding fine scale movements of African elephants. So the idea is that with this data, that. That collects so many points of, of data, even in the second, in every aspect of an elephant’s movement from that data, we’ll be able to get important information about state.

So state being whether an elephant perhaps is stressed or, you know, basically the internal drivers of behavior. So my current research is very behavioral focused and very focused on the animals themselves, but ultimately. That I hope will then lead on to looking at how we may better understand some of the elephants, the on, I put it in for diplomas problem elephants to, to be able to prevent further issues with things like cooperating and fence breaking.

I suppose, when people, because [00:07:00] I know that Kenya in the last sort of 10 years has had its issues with poaching. I suppose people listening when they sort of. See or hear about sort of elephants dying in Africa. They immediately, what Springs to mind is poaching, but a lot of it sort of focused around communities and elephants eating crops that they’ve planted destroying livelihoods.

Where do you, yeah, sorry. Where do you sort of see. They’re sort of going because in the last hundred years, Kenya’s population has gone from 2 million to 65 million and is ever expanding. And of course, with this sort of growing population there space is becoming more and more constricted for the sort of movement of elephants, which have the sort of ancient roots going through.

Yeah. [00:08:00] Yeah. Well, I mean, very two very good points there. And I think a lot of people don’t think of conflicts being the first issue. And the one that actually I think is glaring a lot of us in the face and we don’t actually realize that. Unfortunately, not just in Kenya, you know, with the largest lawn mammal on earth, even here, we’re experiencing issues with conflict in overlapping habitats.

With wildlife, we see an increase in number of urban foxes being pushed into urban areas, even here on our doorsteps. But it’s the same thing, right? It’s this ongoing pressure on our wildlife, on our habitats. Based on the fact that we are a growing world population, where do I see it going? I think there’s a number of really, I kind of want to stay positive of this because there are a number really.

Positive methods or mitigations, if you like, you know, you hear of the beef fences that some in some places it’s really [00:09:00] successful putting basically a fence around crops made of bee hives where that farmer like local stakeholder can, can can actually have the honey sell on the honey. So it actually benefits them and elephants hate bees so effectively or.

Supposed to effectively keep elephants out. More known term mitigations are elephant proof fences, which can work. And also, well I’ll come on to why they can’t, but when they can work essentially is to allow elephants to roam free in areas where it’s safe to do so without, you know, coming against local communities and destroying those livelihoods.

The issue that you have is that you’re dealing with it very intelligent. Very social and constantly adapting species. Right. And some of the fence designs that they have tried previously which are absolutely brilliant. Haven’t always been successful because elephants learn, they learn so quickly. And you know, so space for [00:10:00] giants who who I spent time with those Dr.

Lauren Evans. Who’s fantastic. She’s one of the. One of the co-founders of space for giants. She sets out camera traps, and they were looking at how elephants find all sorts of ways to climb over fences. You know, literally over them, they push down the fence. There’s supposedly sightings of these elephants army crawling like under these kind of metal poles stick out from fences.

So just incredibly well adapted and highly intelligent. But ultimately I think if we. Change our approach to. Basically how do I put this into words? I think we should change our whole approach to look at how actually we live alongside these elephants. If we can create, for example, huge natural corridors, which are suitable for elephants, there will be no need to push into.

You know, areas of crops and come into areas of local communities. It’s about, I guess, understanding that. Yeah, we are a [00:11:00] growing, especially in Kenya, you know, growing human population exponentially, but we need to start really thinking about how we can live alongside as opposed to living in conflict with that’s a long-winded way of saying it’s not easy.

There’s lots of different short and long-term ways, but we have to kind of. We have to think of solution, to be honest, we’ve got to do it quickly. I think my time out there, I, there was a very good sort of case study in the mass. Aymara where. I think back in sort of 1995 or something, one sort of president and his election said that he would give land to all the mass Amara tribe.

And of course you gave them all 50 acres. They split, they cut them up, put fence around them. And then the wildlife had nowhere to roam. And of course it didn’t really work. And so they implemented a sort of strategy of sort of community led whereby they brought in tourism and there was always [00:12:00] space for their cattle to roam in certain areas.

And they all got their cattle together and it was a very effective way of what’s the word effective way of keeping the game happy, thriving. And also their chance to have that cattle, which are a huge part of their culture, which they loved absolutely community led con conservation is the way, I mean, when I was in in LA Saba Conservancy, you know, one of the things they would do marrow is taking out.

Local schools and showing them the wildlife that’s on their doorstep and teaching them about how, you know, building a relationship with a wildlife on your doorstep is so important. And, and these are the ways that you can do it. So, yeah, absolutely. I guess the additional factor here is that, and I’m sure you’ve seen this as well.

You know, there’s huge ecological pressures on places like Kenya. Like I was there in [00:13:00] November. 2019 and extreme flooding, you know, completely extreme flooding way early way late in the season. It was just wiping out. Of course, all these crops and all these necessary bits of land, which otherwise would, would actually not have the pressure of elephants on at that time of year.

So yeah, lots to think about. Hmm. So in your sort of time out there what were you sort of doing other than tagging where you sort of with a sort of different communities, were you doing sort of with the Rangers doing anti-poaching training or anything like that? Yeah. So I spent, so again, I was kind of with space vagina the whole time, but within that I was looking at how space for giants have this model about how to conserve and what they do to effectively do that across, across the region.

And with. With the people of Kenya. So we went to [00:14:00] old projector and looked at the anti-poaching poaching team, them filmed with them which were, it’s just absolutely fantastic. They’re just such a brilliant team. And I’ll, I guess I’ll projector is, is one of the more well-known ones because of the Saddam, the Northern white rhino was in old Projeta but they have a, yeah, I got a taste of, of kind of what it’s like with.

With the drugs, the dogs, they’re the anti-poaching dogs and they’re training in old page. I went up to low Sabal Conservancy and learned all about the coloring of the lions as part of a land lion landscape project. I also shadowed the Kenya wildlife service for a day. Trans basically went on a translocation of three bull elephants that were being moved from the region.

I think it was I can’t remember the name of the Conservancy now. It’s not far from Nanyuki. It’s about an hour or so away. There’ve been moved. I think it was [00:15:00] hundreds of kilometers also away because this one particular bull elephant kept on cooperating, kept on returning to the same area. So he was being trans translocated by the Kenyan wildlife service.

So I, to be honest, I just did a real mix of things, as well as spending time in the field. IDing, elephants, taking photographs, just loving. Yeah. Yeah, of course. And you’re, you’re quite a big runner as well. Are you not. Absolutely love it. I don’t know what it is about. Just I, I wouldn’t say I’m a very good runner, but I just really enjoy it.

You know, just getting a bit muddy and having a good time. Yeah. Because they sort of see on your social media, you you’re sort of out running in the countryside in the national parks. Have you, have you always been a big runner? I have, yeah, I’d say kind of, as I’ve got older, my, my. Running style or at least, [00:16:00] or at least what I enjoy more has changed.

So I’ve always enjoyed kind of going somewhere a little bit more wild off the beaten track if you like, but I prefer kind of bigger, bigger challenges and bigger routes and not ultra running, but, you know, kind of heading more towards like something a bit more significant than a 5k round, a local Lake, if you know what I mean.

Yeah, absolutely. Because you did this trip in Portugal. Could you will happen with that? Yeah. So I I do dumb marathon when I was 19. And for me, that was like my first taste of like a bit of a longer run. And I absolutely loved the Linder mouth and it was brilliant. And so, gosh, okay. Let’s try and level it up.

So I think the next year it was, I, I decided I’d run. 72 miles through from Brechin down the Tufts trail down to Cardiff. So that was like another, okay. Really [00:17:00] enjoying this over a few days. And then I decided that I wanted to up it again. So kind of packed a tent picked a charity, which world land trust I was raising money for at the time.

And I, to be honest, I wanted to pick somewhere in Europe. I think don’t think a lot of people kind of go to. Think of Europe as a great place where you can kind of run off kind of off the beaten track and across beautiful places. Or at least at the time I didn’t and thought why not Portugal? It’s got an absolutely beautiful coastline.

It’s a place I’ve, I’ve been to before. And so I sat out a 200 mile route down the coastline North to South. Dad just, yeah, just take a tent and off I went. And tried to do it in 10 days and died and process. Yeah, it was pretty brutal, but great fun. Well, I said, what was your read sort of going from.

Oh, my gosh. I [00:18:00] can’t even remember now. Where was I? Hang on. I went to Paul, I went Porto and then just went South from there. That was literally my route. I just picked poor term was like, right. I’m going to go from here. And I’m pretty much just followed the coastline, you know? My friend Rowan, who, who isn’t on this just, yeah.

Focus. For to bicycle. She came cycling cycle, the last section of it with me. But otherwise it was like up at four, you know, trying to get, get the runs in before it got too hot in the day. And then just, just basically camping out at night and making my way down. Downsize. It was really brilliant. The habitats as well.

It was really nice. Cause I kind of went through across beaches and really hidden towns and, you know, have beautiful porch accolades, absolutely stunning place. But also through some really fascinating small microhabitats like reserves along the coast. So yeah, I’m really glad I picked Portugal. It was it was brilliant.

So what you just did, it didn’t take a map or you just follow the route [00:19:00] tool. You just had a backpack on and just went right. Let’s go. Pretty much I picked Porto and was like the coastline. It’s pretty good. And if the C’s on my right, then it should be fine. You know, each day after you run, you kind of pick out where’s good or, or a main route if you like.

But if I was to come across say like a nice boardwalk that would follow the coast closer than fade through a town and I’d go do that. I mean, it was just me. So I guess I’d had no, you know, race. Race direct or proper route to follows is brilliant. It’s quite nice having that sort of freedom to sort of pick and choose because when you’re in a sort of marathon environment where it’s competitive, you’re always, you know, thinking, all right, I’ve got to Kellogg and got to get on, like when you do these marathons around the sort of world, but when you sort of pick and choose and decide when and where.

If you want to stop for an hour and be like, Oh, this is actually really nice. There’s no sort of [00:20:00] pressure. And where were you doing? Sort of covering 40 kilometers, 50 kilometers a day, or? Yeah, I was kind of aiming for about 25 miles a day, which would, would make me kind of be within. My 200 initially was 250 miles.

And I quickly decided that it wasn’t going to be 250 in 10 days. It was quite hot. So I’m kind of like what you’re saying and had that flexibility to say, all right, well, let’s, let’s say for 200 and enjoy it. So my aim was 25 miles a day. And yeah, I mean, Like I said, I could just have that freedom to, to pick a time where I want to start typically earlier, rather than later, before it got way too hot.

But yeah, just lots of flexibility. Yeah. And loving it along the way. The only thing is when you’re, you know, really. So, and just covered in blisters and bleeding from like strange armpit places and all the rest of it. It is a bit hard after a while, as I’m sure you know, that [00:21:00] it’s just like that motivation kind of dips at times you have to kind of pull it together a little.

So w so you sort of just had your backpack and you carried what one set of clothes. And that was,

yeah, I had a few bits in bulbs. I mean, sometimes I. On, on some of the days I would come down a route and then there’d be like this really good access and like bus routes back and stuff. So I think it was two or three of the days that I was like, I w I kind of had all my, my jails, my water. All I needed, but then I kind of, after I finished my run, which just meet my way back and then come back down the coast of the days, I just had like my, my whole rucksack.

It wasn’t a lot like a couple of running, running bits and bobs and classes and all the rest of it. And we’d meet my way down. And then my lovely friend room, we carry some of my staff up to that, which is very good on a bike is a hell of a lot easier. Yeah, she [00:22:00] was having a lovely time, like super lovely time.

I’m sure. But yeah. So also, what was I gonna say? I suppose for people listening, where, where do you sort of see the future of. Wildlife, because as I say with David Attenborough, you know, he came out with his witness statement and we have 30,000 species dying each year. What is probably for people listening.

What is something you feel that they can do that might just maybe help out a little bit? Yeah, such a hard question, you know In your day-to-day life, I guess I think the one message that, you know, the likes of David Attenborough and these big blue chip documentaries and the likes of Gretta Sandberg doing all her activist work, the main message is that you are [00:23:00] responsible in everything that you do and your impact on the planet.

You know, maybe a tiny impacts, for example, you may or may not the cycle you may or not. Decides to cycle to work. It’s a tiny little thing, but every little thing does add up. So I think the one message is that we are all in this together and we are all responsible in some way or another. It’s really up to you, I think in how you want to I guess.

Deal with that, but it’s hard because obviously in documentaries and things, your it’s a very fine line between doom and gloom and being honest about the state of the planet and, you know, without beating around the Bush, we are, we are actually in real trouble, not only with. The warming of the planet, the loss of biodiversity loss the destruction of our oceans, you know, I, I just, the other day I was reading that.

So around the UK, our Marine protected [00:24:00] areas we have hundreds of them across the UK, like 130 yards in Wales and 98% of our offshore MBAs actually experienced, you know, extreme bottle, bottom trawling and dredging. Which is like one of the most destructive activities that can take place and things like MPA.

So I think. Well, first off, I just, I just think that even though conservation is doing everything, it can, we need to do 10 times more. So whether you are a strict conflict conservationist, or whether you’re someone who’s just, you know, a mom at home has got kids, you need to get by day to day, you’ve got to, you know, that’s not really your world.

You still are responsible and very much part of that problem. So as much as I want to say, you know, it’s. We have to do everything we can. It’s also, we have to be realistic about what can be done as long as everyone has the understanding that we all have a tiny parts of place. If you are in a position where you can, you know, walk to [00:25:00] work or trade in your, your diesel car for maybe an electric car or something, then do it, you know, do what you can.

I’m not asking you to, you know, just live out the mud and never speak to anyone again for fare five G. Now I’m doing it. It’s all about being realistic and doing, doing your bit. It’s a long-winded answer.

So there’s a part of the show where we are, well, I’d say the same five questions, but I’ve now changed them. Say you’re the first, first batch. Okay. I’m ready on your trips. What’s the one item or gadget that you always Oh, item or gadgets. Okay. It’s a really new D one. It’s always a pair of binoculars, always.

Do you know for why you could be, it could be out to go see whales. You could [00:26:00] be just on a hike. You will always need a pair of binoculars. And I know that’s really new to youngster, but I’m guaranteed. Someone will at some point go, we’ll start then. And then just that way, come in. It’s like move. Yeah. This sort of extra big, or are they sort of like the littles.

Well, all right, let me get the, hang on. I’ve got a few peds where they know that I’ll be the, my old ones that you saw a classic, you know, you want something, there was actually a bit of an art and a skill to the right binoculars, depending on what you want. Mine are pretty standard. They need to be like, you know, a good pair of weighty, binoculars,

and action. These are all now I’ve got, I’ve got some new ones, some new liker ones, like really pretty and actually always binoculars. Yeah. Very good. What is your favorite adventure or travel book

[00:27:00] or travel book?

That’s a really good question. I would probably lean more towards. A wildlife guide. I’ll tell you. Well, only because it’s one that I got recently and it’s actually on the shelf behind me. It’s a naturalist guide in Nicaragua. So it’s a place where I’ve never been. And hang on, let me get it, sending me on a whole thing, but yeah, Thomas belt and it’s this really cool, amazing, like super old school.

Guide that he wrote about Nicaragua and it’s just absolutely stuffed to the brim with everything about the place, the people, community like living the [00:28:00] wildlife ideating. It is probably one of my favorites, my, my latest favorite. So a bit of a cheat there. It’s not quite an adventure book, but it’s close.

No, this is no, this is partly why it’s like, so actually someone very close to me bought me this because I saw it in a bookshop in 10 B this like amazing bookshop. That’s just like stacked full of books. Like that’s topple over. It’s absolutely beautiful. And you actually got, he actually got it from me and I’ve been obsessed with it ever since, but no, it’s on the list.

Have you been, I haven’t been done. Okay.

Be one of the, one of the places I hope to go to in the future, but yeah, it’s not right now. Why are adventures important to you? Adventures are important to me because I am [00:29:00] always. I always, I don’t know. I always learn something new. There’s always something surprising on an adventure. I guess it’s something that I like being pushed outside my comfort zone.

Is that a really cliche thing to say, but it is, it’s pretty cliche. But I’ve, I always, yeah, it’s something that’s just always made me quite excited, inspired me and are. I’d say I’d encourage everyone in anyone, whether it’s just like a small adventure in your local patch or. Some are further afield, try and push yourself outside your comfort zone.

Definitely. It’s a really crappy answer. I’m sorry. He’s very good. Because I think, I think everyone who comes on the podcast is very similar in that sort of mindset is you have a goal and then you push yourself and then you’re like, Oh, I could have done that. That was, I’ve done that. And then you sort of think, Oh, okay, I’ll take it a step further and further.

And then once you’ve done that, you’re sort of like, well, how far can I go? [00:30:00] Yeah, I’ve, I’ve always gotten the best stories from my most strange adventures. Funnily enough, my last trip to Kenya mindful and James and I. So he was out as a, is part of my lab. It’s one of the university. He came out with me.

We went out to go see wild dogs. There’s a small population. I’m sure some of you all listeners will know, maybe, you know, about the wildlife population being depleted because of the canine disease. So. Similar population. But we were meeting up with this expert in a Conservancy to go and basically go and track them and see if we can find them.

And we had about an hour left of light. So we have the option to either go back or go and see the wild dogs. And of course it was like, yeah, we’re going to go see, well, dogs have the best encounter with them for about 10 minutes. And then basically the flood, the rains came, we got flooded. We couldn’t get home.

We had to sleep in a random place in the middle of a Conservancy and spent the next day trying to get back on Kenyan roads [00:31:00] and getting broken down the whole time. It was absolutely brilliant. And what did I learn from that? Not much, but Walldogs are brilliant. Well, thanks. A great, the best stories happen when there’s sort of something disastrous happens because you’re sitting there like, Oh my God, you’ll never guess what this happened.

Yeah. So Lizzie, what is your favorite quote? Well just thinking on the spot. No, I think so. I had this quote stuck to my walls, so cheesy, but why not? And the quote was, it was a day like this when Marco polo left for China, what are your plans today is basically just saying. That there is no better day than today.

How about that? But achieved? Yeah, really liked it. People, people listening are always keen to travel and go on an adventure. [00:32:00] What’s the one thing you would recommend to them to on how to become an adventurer or a wildlife expert or biologist. Oh, okay. Different, I guess, different approaches there.

The one thing that I always think people miss when they just go on adventures is perhaps they don’t tap into that. You can be a naturalist and a biologist if you like at the same time. So I would recommend for anyone that, you know, you may be a real lover of. I don’t know, primary rainforest habitat, just because it’s Epic and you love the scenery and you love trees or rainforests, but you know, really take the time to do your research or try and absorb your surroundings as much as you can.

And by doing that, you know, there’s, there’s always lots of wildlife to see and always lots to learn about the environments that you’re in. So that’d be my top tip on how to actually make the most of your adventure is just like, You know, really, really absorb all the, all the information you [00:33:00] can and then about your environment and then to become a biologist.

I think as long as you’re a passionate, dedicated person, I don’t think you actually need to go down the degree route. If you’re not academically inclined and biopsy fine. It may not be for you. But if you’re someone who just loves the outdoors, like spend time. Outside spend time with a pair of binoculars and a, and a notebook and a guide and get to know again, your, your surroundings or, you know, contact organizations that you are passionate about or that you would enjoy working with and try and find ways to get involved to them.

It’s there’s lots of different routes into conservation and or into science. There’s no like typical way don’t get hung up on like having a degree. But if that’s also what you want to do, then, then sure. Go for it. Yeah, that’s my top tip. So research is key. Research is key. And actually what you find is that you enjoy the [00:34:00] moments where you may be less than you may just be in an environment and you hear, you know, I walked through kind city center and I walked through and yeah, you may think, gosh, there’s nothing adventurous about that, but I can hear the Peregrine Falcons, like screeching overhead.

And I’m just like walking through the city center and you’re like, wow, that’s the world’s fastest bird. It’s just gone over my head. And there’s all these people around that have got no idea what they’ve just witnessed. So just, I don’t know, just take that extra bit of time to really make the most of wherever you’re going or how you’re going to get there, or who are you going to be with?

And yeah, you would enjoy it a lot more amazing. And what are you doing now and how can people find you? So for now, I’m doing PhD stuff and I’m trying to actually create some online resources. So I setup a series called earth live lessons. It’s basically 20 minutes of weekly [00:35:00] lives with experts, scientists, filmmakers from around the world.

So you can find that on my YouTube channel at Lizzie daily wildlife TV, otherwise I’m just at Lizzie daily wild and Yeah, I’m posting something wildlife related regularly. So that’s where you can find me if that’s what you want or not. And what was your plans when post COVID once this is all behind us.

Okay. Post COVID, if that’s this year, hopefully you’ve got few Things lined up. I’m currently writing like an a wa a wildlife adventure guide for the UK. So that’s going to come out later in the year. Hopefully, maybe can’t tell you too much, but something in Peru potentially and heading back out to Kenya for some field work.

So. Should things go back to normal. Hopefully not sooner rather than later, but you know, when it’s [00:36:00] like right now, we’ll just see amazing. Well, Lindsay, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Thanks for having me really enjoyed it. And it’s been an absolute pleasure listening to all your stories and yeah.

Go, go check out. Busy daily, wild wildlife. Thank you, Walter. Well, whatever.